Australian Politics Forum - Labor shouldn't dump Shorten

mariacostel

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Re: Labor shouldn't dump Shorten
Reply #30 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 3:08pm

O))) wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 1:33pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 11:51am:

Bam wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 11:24am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 8:41am:

As the toxic policies that Mal can’t change keep going along the polls will return to show Labor leading, perhaps with a slightly smaller margin. But disappointment with Mal might see Labor’s vote increase over where they were when Abbott was PM.

I don't think the polls would get that bad for the Coalition. It's plausible to suggest that the Coalition's more toxic policies will drag down their vote, but it's rather a stretch to suggest that a Turnbull-led Coalition would perform worse than an Abbott-led Coalition.

The simple reason - Abbott was truly awful, the worst Prime Minister this country has ever seen. This is someone who expected the crossbenchers in the Senate to pass legislation without even talking to them. He could hardly string a sentence together. He was incompetent, had no grasp of the job and was prone to gaffes.

Abbott destroyed 3 labor PMs, took them to a record low vote and one a landslide victory. He will be remembered well.

As opposition leader, not as PM.

Doesn't change anything in a lot of Liberal Member's minds. Some of us are more substantial than the shadow-boxers on here.

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Its time

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Re: Labor shouldn't dump Shorten
Reply #31 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 3:20pm

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 11:51am:

Bam wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 11:24am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 8:41am:

As the toxic policies that Mal can’t change keep going along the polls will return to show Labor leading, perhaps with a slightly smaller margin. But disappointment with Mal might see Labor’s vote increase over where they were when Abbott was PM.

I don't think the polls would get that bad for the Coalition. It's plausible to suggest that the Coalition's more toxic policies will drag down their vote, but it's rather a stretch to suggest that a Turnbull-led Coalition would perform worse than an Abbott-led Coalition.

The simple reason - Abbott was truly awful, the worst Prime Minister this country has ever seen. This is someone who expected the crossbenchers in the Senate to pass legislation without even talking to them. He could hardly string a sentence together. He was incompetent, had no grasp of the job and was prone to gaffes.

Abbott destroyed 3 labor PMs, took them to a record low vote and one a landslide victory. He will be remembered well.

Who remembers Gillard? She barely rates a mention. More people talk of Hawke than Gillard.

You are a pretty bad loser.

He will be remembered as a fantastic leader , opposition leader that is . Then rhetoric and reality had the train smash of all train smashes by october 2013.

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Johnsmith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4716 Gender:	Re: Labor shouldn't dump Shorten Reply #32 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 4:26pm labor needs to swap to Albo ... the caucus should never have ignored the will of its members ... having said that, I'm not sure how they go about doing it unless he goes willingly.
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Johnsmith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4716 Gender:	Re: Labor shouldn't dump Shorten Reply #33 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 4:27pm mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 3:08pm: Doesn't change anything in a lot of Liberal Member's minds. Some of us are more substantial than the shadow-boxers on here. I'm not so sure the majority that voted him out agree with you.
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mariacostel

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Re: Labor shouldn't dump Shorten
Reply #34 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 4:39pm

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 4:26pm:

labor needs to swap to Albo ... the caucus should never have ignored the will of its members ... having said that, I'm not sure how they go about doing it unless he goes willingly.

Why do you think Alabanese would be much better? Labor itself is on the nose and Shorten in particular. But Albanese is solidly left-wing and left-wing is death to political aspirations in Australia. The gains he gets from not being Shorten will be lost by being left-wing.

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Johnsmith

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Re: Labor shouldn't dump Shorten
Reply #35 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 5:25pm

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 4:39pm:

Labor itself is on the nose

only to an idiot like you. Last election all the polls on the subject showed that the majority preferred labors policies over the libs policies, it was labors personalities and in fighting people were fed up with. Rudd and Gillard aren't there anymore, and so far Turncoat is doing a good job of not playing to personalities ... I think you should be careful about counting your chickens just yet.

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When politicians offer you something for nothing, or something that sounds too good to be true, it's always worth taking a careful second look.
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mariacostel

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Re: Labor shouldn't dump Shorten
Reply #36 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 5:28pm

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 5:25pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 4:39pm:

Labor itself is on the nose

only to an idiot like you. Last election all the polls on the subject showed that the majority preferred labors policies over the libs policies, it was labors personalities and in fighting people were fed up with. Rudd and Gillard aren't there anymore, and so far Turncoat is doing a good job of not playing to personalities ... I think you should be careful about counting your chickens just yet.

If you truly believe that then you really are stupider than I thought. You admit to being poorly educated, but you need to add that you are also very, very dim-witted as well.

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Johnsmith

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Re: Labor shouldn't dump Shorten
Reply #37 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 5:31pm

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 5:28pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 5:25pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 4:39pm:

Labor itself is on the nose

only to an idiot like you. Last election all the polls on the subject showed that the majority preferred labors policies over the libs policies, it was labors personalities and in fighting people were fed up with. Rudd and Gillard aren't there anymore, and so far Turncoat is doing a good job of not playing to personalities ... I think you should be careful about counting your chickens just yet.

If you truly believe that then you really are stupider than I thought. You admit to being poorly educated, but you need to add that you are also very, very dim-witted as well.

One only needs a modicum of education to be able to answer a question without resorting to abuse and yet you seem incapable of answering a single question without doing so ... you should ask your school for a full refund. Grin

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When politicians offer you something for nothing, or something that sounds too good to be true, it's always worth taking a careful second look.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 47794 Gender:	Re: Labor shouldn't dump Shorten Reply #38 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 5:33pm All you need to do, Mongy, is look at some Essential polls. The Lib policies are not popular but Malodorous can’t change them.
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Johnsmith

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Re: Labor shouldn't dump Shorten
Reply #39 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 5:36pm

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 5:28pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 5:25pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 4:39pm:

Labor itself is on the nose

only to an idiot like you. Last election all the polls on the subject showed that the majority preferred labors policies over the libs policies, it was labors personalities and in fighting people were fed up with. Rudd and Gillard aren't there anymore, and so far Turncoat is doing a good job of not playing to personalities ... I think you should be careful about counting your chickens just yet.

If you truly believe that then you really are stupider than I thought. You admit to being poorly educated, but you need to add that you are also very, very dim-witted as well.

It's not about belief Maria ... you deal with fantasy, I'll stick to facts Cheesy

The Labor Party was thought to have better policies than the Liberal Party on all issues except “all working people” where both parties had similar ratings. In particular the Labor Party was thought to have better policies for people on low incomes (40% Labor/18% Liberal), unemployed people (36%/18%) and people with disabilities (32%/16%).

Of those aged 55+, 40% thought Labor had better policies for pensioners and 23% thought the Liberals had better policies.

30% think the Liberals have better policies for all working people and 29% think Labor has better policies. Full-time workers are more likely to think The Liberals have better policies (37% Liberal/24% Labor) which part-time workers are more likely to favour Labor (37% Labor/29% Liberal).

http://www.essentialvision.com.au/tag/better-policies

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When politicians offer you something for nothing, or something that sounds too good to be true, it's always worth taking a careful second look.
(Malcolm Turncoat)

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 47794 Gender:	Re: Labor shouldn't dump Shorten Reply #40 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 5:54pm Heh, Labor had a good QT again today, judging from the #QT twitterstream. Got Malodorous to say he had not changed any policies since he became PM, some verbal support for public transport aside. Nope, we should keep Shorten.
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mariacostel

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Re: Labor shouldn't dump Shorten
Reply #41 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 6:03pm

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 5:36pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 5:28pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 5:25pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 4:39pm:

Labor itself is on the nose

only to an idiot like you. Last election all the polls on the subject showed that the majority preferred labors policies over the libs policies, it was labors personalities and in fighting people were fed up with. Rudd and Gillard aren't there anymore, and so far Turncoat is doing a good job of not playing to personalities ... I think you should be careful about counting your chickens just yet.

If you truly believe that then you really are stupider than I thought. You admit to being poorly educated, but you need to add that you are also very, very dim-witted as well.

It's not about belief Maria ... you deal with fantasy, I'll stick to facts Cheesy

The Labor Party was thought to have better policies than the Liberal Party on all issues except “all working people” where both parties had similar ratings. In particular the Labor Party was thought to have better policies for people on low incomes (40% Labor/18% Liberal), unemployed people (36%/18%) and people with disabilities (32%/16%).

Of those aged 55+, 40% thought Labor had better policies for pensioners and 23% thought the Liberals had better policies.

30% think the Liberals have better policies for all working people and 29% think Labor has better policies. Full-time workers are more likely to think The Liberals have better policies (37% Liberal/24% Labor) which part-time workers are more likely to favour Labor (37% Labor/29% Liberal).

http://www.essentialvision.com.au/tag/better-policies

And yet, they got utterly trounced in the election.

Ever thought you were cheated? Coz you were! On brains. On education, On social smarts... etc

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mariacostel

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Re: Labor shouldn't dump Shorten
Reply #42 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 6:11pm

The survey you refer to has bias inbuilt in every portion of the structure. There is not one question on handling the economy. Not a single question on immigration or law. Nothing to do whatsoever with the myriad areas of government, just 6 areas that traditionally Labor polls well in. And that is before we discuss the rather obvious (well not to you lot of course) fact that the survey was done largely on LABOR VOTERS.

Can any of you people read statistics with your brains engaged? It was as biased as it could be without being run by Independent Australia.

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Dnarever

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Re: Labor shouldn't dump Shorten
Reply #43 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 7:03pm

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 6:11pm:

The survey you refer to has bias inbuilt in every portion of the structure. There is not one question on handling the economy. Not a single question on immigration or law. Nothing to do whatsoever with the myriad areas of government, just 6 areas that traditionally Labor polls well in. And that is before we discuss the rather obvious (well not to you lot of course) fact that the survey was done largely on LABOR VOTERS.

Can any of you people read statistics with your brains engaged? It was as biased as it could be without being run by Independent Australia.

There is not one question on handling the economy

That would be a huge relief for the Libs.

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Karnal

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Re: Labor shouldn't dump Shorten
Reply #44 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 7:23pm

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 4:39pm:

Johnsmith wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 4:26pm:

labor needs to swap to Albo ... the caucus should never have ignored the will of its members ... having said that, I'm not sure how they go about doing it unless he goes willingly.

Why do you think Alabanese would be much better? Labor itself is on the nose and Shorten in particular. But Albanese is solidly left-wing and left-wing is death to political aspirations in Australia. The gains he gets from not being Shorten will be lost by being left-wing.

He’s in the left faction, dear, he’s not left wing. One does not necessarily equal the other.

But yes, Albanese’s not going to cut it either. Labor needs a non-factional leader, like Rudd. The problem the ALP has right now is the dominance of the two factions Shorten and Albanese control.

Hawke and Rudd both short circuited this system, and this needs to be done again.

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