Australian Politics Forum - Should the TPP be put to a plebiscite?

O))) Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 153 Gender:	Re: Should the TPP be put to a plebiscite? Reply #30 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 1:45pm I think it's crucial to remember that the TPP also involves the United States - the most litigious nation on the planet. Not exactly the sort of place you want to establish an ISDS mechanism.
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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Should the TPP be put to a plebiscite?
Reply #31 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 4:36pm

O))) wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 1:45pm:

I think it's crucial to remember that the TPP also involves the United States - the most litigious nation on the planet. Not exactly the sort of place you want to establish an ISDS mechanism.

Of course we must all agree with you. After all, you're a world-leading authority on international law.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Should the TPP be put to a plebiscite?
Reply #32 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 4:37pm

Its time wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 1:44pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 12:17pm:

____ wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 11:56am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 11:54am:

____ wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 11:37am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:28am:

____ wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:25am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:18am:

____ wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 7:56am:

As usual, Bam forwards a logical position.
Since the TPP promotes a secret court, so businesses can sue Australia, to the highest of courts, then a plebiscite on the TPP is a must.

So it follows then that we should've been given a plebiscite on the carbon tax, right?

No.

Why? What's the difference?

The TPP erects a non democratic and secretive court, higher than the current courts.

Australians should have a choice if they would like to undermine their democratic rights.

Do you want less democratic power?

Australians should've had a choice on the carbon tax, but Browneye and Juliar took that away from them.

The topic is a plebiscite on the TPP.
How about a statement from you on topic.

Nothing wrong with the TPP as far as I can tell. Nothing but left-wing scare mongering.

Do you read before signing ?

The more important question is: can you read at all?

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Scott Morrison DID wipe the floor with Bull Shitten!!!

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mariacostel

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Re: Should the TPP be put to a plebiscite?
Reply #33 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 4:39pm

____ wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 1:41pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 12:17pm:

____ wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 11:56am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 11:54am:

____ wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 11:37am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:28am:

____ wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:25am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:18am:

____ wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 7:56am:

As usual, Bam forwards a logical position.
Since the TPP promotes a secret court, so businesses can sue Australia, to the highest of courts, then a plebiscite on the TPP is a must.

So it follows then that we should've been given a plebiscite on the carbon tax, right?

No.

Why? What's the difference?

The TPP erects a non democratic and secretive court, higher than the current courts.

Australians should have a choice if they would like to undermine their democratic rights.

Do you want less democratic power?

Australians should've had a choice on the carbon tax, but Browneye and Juliar took that away from them.

The topic is a plebiscite on the TPP.
How about a statement from you on topic.

Nothing wrong with the TPP as far as I can tell. Nothing but left-wing scare mongering.

Tobacco giant sues Australia

More than $50 million of taxpayer money is expected to go up in smoke defending cigarette plain packaging in a secretive international tribunal in Singapore.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/29064155/tobacco-giant-sues-australia/

This is what you support. Australia being sued in a secretive nondemocratic court just because we are attempting to cut cig health costs along with underage smoking ... and smoking deaths.

So as a nurse, do you support a multinational company's right to kill Australians via this secretive court which the TPP makes the highest of all courts?

Do you support the TPP just out of ignorance?

And on the topic of ignorance... this suit takes place under laws put in place by Paul Keating.

ancient news...

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 45888 Gender:	Re: Should the TPP be put to a plebiscite? Reply #34 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 5:37pm So doesn’t that show we should be careful about signing up to much more exposure to ISDS? You really don’t think clearly, eh Mongy?
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Bam

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Re: Should the TPP be put to a plebiscite?
Reply #35 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 5:42pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 12:17pm:

____ wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 11:56am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 11:54am:

____ wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 11:37am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:28am:

____ wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:25am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:18am:

____ wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 7:56am:

As usual, Bam forwards a logical position.
Since the TPP promotes a secret court, so businesses can sue Australia, to the highest of courts, then a plebiscite on the TPP is a must.

So it follows then that we should've been given a plebiscite on the carbon tax, right?

No.

Why? What's the difference?

The TPP erects a non democratic and secretive court, higher than the current courts.

Australians should have a choice if they would like to undermine their democratic rights.

Do you want less democratic power?

Australians should've had a choice on the carbon tax, but Browneye and Juliar took that away from them.

The topic is a plebiscite on the TPP.
How about a statement from you on topic.

Nothing wrong with the TPP as far as I can tell. Nothing but left-wing scare mongering.

The TPP allows corporations to come into the country and make huge profits, yet if the government does anything that harms those profits - say by introducing a tax or increasing competition - the company can SUE THE GOVERNMENT in a secret overseas court.

Yet if those same corporations charge Australians 50% to 400% more for the same product (which happens now) - often from the same servers - the Australian public has no right of action against those corporations for price gouging.

Does that seem right to you?

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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mariacostel

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Re: Should the TPP be put to a plebiscite?
Reply #36 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 5:45pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 5:37pm:

So doesn’t that show we should be careful about signing up to much more exposure to ISDS?

You really don’t think clearly, eh Mongy?

The point is that it was your beloved Labor that put this in place. And a constitutional issue that none of you have ever bothered to address is that the constitution says that NO EXTERNAL GOVERNMENT OR BODY can makes laws or seek to enforce them in Australia. It simply is not permitted under any circumstances.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Should the TPP be put to a plebiscite?
Reply #37 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 6:06pm

Labor may have signed one treaty that had ISDS clauses under which we are now being sued re our Plain Packaging laws. Not smart to sign up to a treaty we can’t recant, especially when one party is thirty times bigger than us and is extremely litigious.

Only a more on like a Lib supporter could think signing the TPP is a good thing. Right, Mongy?

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Aussie

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Re: Should the TPP be put to a plebiscite?
Reply #38 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 6:10pm

mariacostel wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 5:45pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 5:37pm:

So doesn’t that show we should be careful about signing up to much more exposure to ISDS?

You really don’t think clearly, eh Mongy?

The point is that it was your beloved Labor that put this in place. And a constitutional issue that none of you have ever bothered to address is that the constitution says that NO EXTERNAL GOVERNMENT OR BODY can makes laws or seek to enforce them in Australia. It simply is not permitted under any circumstances.

Not saying you are not correct. I've not come across it, is all. What section?

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 45888 Gender:	Re: Should the TPP be put to a plebiscite? Reply #39 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 7:56pm If Mongy is correct why is the govt spending $50m defending our Plain Packaging law in some bullcrap secret ISDS court hearing? There is the external affairs power under which the Commonwealth can sign treaties that bind it.
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O)))

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Re: Should the TPP be put to a plebiscite?
Reply #40 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 9:34pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 4:36pm:

O))) wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 1:45pm:

I think it's crucial to remember that the TPP also involves the United States - the most litigious nation on the planet. Not exactly the sort of place you want to establish an ISDS mechanism.

Of course we must all agree with you. After all, you're a world-leading authority on international law.

I'm honestly not sure what point you're trying to make here. Did you respond to the right post? Or do you think America isn't particularly litigious? Care to add some actual substance?

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freediver

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Re: Should the TPP be put to a plebiscite?
Reply #41 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 9:42pm

Bam wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 11:15pm:

If the current government has a policy of putting same-sex marriage to the people in a plebiscite, why not also refer the Trans-Pacific partnership (TPP) agreement to the people? It is more likely to impact on our lives than same -sex marriage, so why can't the people have a direct say on it?

The TPP is not a yes/no question. The answer is yes, overwhelmingly. It's the details that need to be sorted out.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 45888 Gender:	Re: Should the TPP be put to a plebiscite? Reply #42 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 10:06pm The TPP is not about free trade, it is about letting corporations run our lives. Answer is “No.”
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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Should the TPP be put to a plebiscite?
Reply #43 - Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:40am

Bam wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 11:15pm:

If the current government has a policy of putting same-sex marriage to the people in a plebiscite, why not also refer the Trans-Pacific partnership (TPP) agreement to the people? It is more likely to impact on our lives than same -sex marriage, so why can't the people have a direct say on it?

Yes agree entirely

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Should the TPP be put to a plebiscite?
Reply #44 - Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:42am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:18am:

____ wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 7:56am:

As usual, Bam forwards a logical position.
Since the TPP promotes a secret court, so businesses can sue Australia, to the highest of courts, then a plebiscite on the TPP is a must.

So it follows then that we should've been given a plebiscite on the carbon tax, right?

Yes absolutely. No one should decide an issue as important as this but us AND I'm confident we wo9uld have a carbin tax as a consequence

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