Australian Politics Forum - No jab no pay law to cut childcare benefits

aquascoot

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Re: No jab no pay law to cut childcare benefits
Reply #15 - Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:33am

Kytro wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:27am:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:19am:

we currently have 90 % vaccination levels , we will prevent measles "epidemics"at this level. pushing it to 95 or 100 will save no one. the disease requires a percentage of about 20 to 25% susceptible to spread thru the community .

This is only true if the population mixes randomly, and infection occurs evenly. It does not.

aquascoot wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:19am:

go to a casualty department and ask them how they are coping with the diseases of measles and rubella and mumps and chickenpox in the last 10 years with the current vaccination levels, they will inform you it is not a problem, then as you leave casualty, be careful not to trip over the diabetics lined up with their black feet, their white canes, attached to drips,

we have serious health problems in australia and they all relate to the crap people put in their mouths
fat, sugar, smokes, grog, pot and ice.

attack things in a logical order

It's getting worse though. We should be aiming for removing these diseases completely, there is no good reason to keep them around.

I agree that there are more pressing matters, but there is not good reason to not do this.

i cant see the value in pouring endless resources into finding every last child.
this is not HIV where we should find every last case.
the vaccine does not work in some people so there will ALWAYS be some people non immune and we can live with that.
Why not find every last case of Hep C or Hep B which are highly contagious, have long term devestating health consequences (much more then rubella which is really only a problem in early pregnancy) AND rubella can only spread by having a susceptible herd, whilst hep b and hep c can and do spread until you DO eliminate every last case.

I think this has more to do with producing statistics, patting themselves on the backs and looking like they are saving kids,
whereas hep b and c are often in drug addicts etc.
But the health costs for hep b and c will SWAMP those from the complications of chickenpox. They will absolutley dwarf them

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Kytro

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Re: No jab no pay law to cut childcare benefits
Reply #16 - Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:37am

aquascoot wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:33am:

i cant see the value in pouring endless resources into finding every last child.
this is not HIV where we should find every last case.
the vaccine does not work in some people so there will ALWAYS be some people non immune and we can live with that.
Why not find every last case of Hep C or Hep B which are highly contagious, have long term devestating health consequences (much more then rubella which is really only a problem in early pregnancy) AND rubella can only spread by having a susceptible herd, whilst hep b and hep c can and do spread until you DO eliminate every last case.

I think this has more to do with producing statistics, patting themselves on the backs and looking like they are saving kids,
whereas hep b and c are often in drug addicts etc.
But the health costs for hep b and c will SWAMP those from the complications of chickenpox. They will absolutley dwarf them

Endless resources? The program will not start costing exponentially more if the remaining children are vaccinated. Nobody is suggesting a door-to-door search.

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aquascoot

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Re: No jab no pay law to cut childcare benefits
Reply #17 - Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:53am

Kytro wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:37am:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:33am:

i cant see the value in pouring endless resources into finding every last child.
this is not HIV where we should find every last case.
the vaccine does not work in some people so there will ALWAYS be some people non immune and we can live with that.
Why not find every last case of Hep C or Hep B which are highly contagious, have long term devestating health consequences (much more then rubella which is really only a problem in early pregnancy) AND rubella can only spread by having a susceptible herd, whilst hep b and hep c can and do spread until you DO eliminate every last case.

I think this has more to do with producing statistics, patting themselves on the backs and looking like they are saving kids,
whereas hep b and c are often in drug addicts etc.
But the health costs for hep b and c will SWAMP those from the complications of chickenpox. They will absolutley dwarf them

Endless resources? The program will not start costing exponentially more if the remaining children are vaccinated. Nobody is suggesting a door-to-door search.

I will bet there is a register and armies of clerks sending out letters and second letters and collating data and liasing with centrelink and IT specialists trying to link all the data from 10,000 gp clinics, 1000 councils, 10,000 schools that vaccinate and linking to all the day care centres and then there will be stuff ups with data and more recalls and more meetings between the various people involved.

So GP's nurses, teachers, childcare workers, council staff, centrelink staff will all be spending time getting up to speed with this.

yes , it will use resources.

all so some minister can stand up in parliament in 12 months and say we have gone from 92 % to 94 % vaccination rates.

whooppeee do.

lets celebrate by closing down the health sector.
all our problems are solved. no one will ever need health care again

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: No jab no pay law to cut childcare benefits
Reply #18 - Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:54am

it_is_the_light wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:23am:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-media-blackout-italian-courts-rule-vaccines-cau...

U.S. Media Blackout: Italian Courts Rule Vaccines Cause Autism

http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Vaccine-Money-400x225.jp...

On September 23, 2014, an Italian court in Milan awarded compensation to a boy for vaccine-induced autism. (See the Italian document here.) A childhood vaccine against six childhood diseases caused the boy’s permanent autism and brain damage.

While the Italian press has devoted considerable attention to this decision and its public health implications, the U.S. press has been silent.

Italy’s National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program

Like the U.S., Italy has a national vaccine injury compensation program to give some financial support to those people who are injured by compulsory and recommended vaccinations. The Italian infant plaintiff received three doses of GlaxoSmithKline’s Infanrix Hexa, a hexavalent vaccine administered in the first year of life. These doses occurred from March to October 2006. The vaccine is to protect children from polio, diphtheria, tetanus, hepatitis B, pertussis and Haemophilus influenza type B. In addition to these antigens, however, the vaccine then contained thimerosal, the mercury-containing preservative, aluminum, an adjuvant, as well as other toxic ingredients. The child regressed into autism shortly after receiving the three doses.

When the parents presented their claim for compensation first to the Ministry of Health, as they were required to do, the Ministry rejected it. Therefore, the family sued the Ministry in a court of general jurisdiction, an option which does not exist in the same form in the U.S.

Court Decision: Mercury and Aluminum in Vaccine Caused Autism

Based on expert medical testimony, the court concluded that the child more likely than not suffered autism and brain damage because of the neurotoxic mercury, aluminum and his particular susceptibility from a genetic mutation. The Court also noted that Infanrix Hexa contained thimerosal, now banned in Italy because of its neurotoxicity, “in concentrations greatly exceeding the maximum recommended levels for infants weighing only a few kilograms.”

Presiding Judge Nicola Di Leo considered another piece of damning evidence: a 1271-page confidential GlaxoSmithKline report (now available on the Internet). This industry document provided ample evidence of adverse events from the vaccine, including five known cases of autism resulting from the vaccine’s administration during its clinical trials (see table at page 626, excerpt below).

http://network.sophiamedia.com/vaccineimpact/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2015/01/...

Italian Government, Not Vaccine Maker, Pays for Vaccine Damages

As in many other developed countries, government, not industry, compensates families in the event of vaccine injury. Thus GSK’s apparent lack of concern for the vaccine’s adverse effects is notable and perhaps not surprising.

In the final assessment, the report states that:

“[t]he benefit/risk profile of Infanrix hexa continues to be favourable,” despite GSK’s acknowledgement that the vaccine causes side effects including “anaemia haemolytic autoimmune,thrombocytopenia, thrombocytopenic purpura, autoimmune thrombocytopenia, idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, haemolytic anemia, cyanosis, injection site nodule, abcess and injection site abscess, Kawasaki’s disease, important neurological events (including encephalitis and encephalopathy), Henoch-Schonlein purpura, petechiae, purpura, haematochezia, allergic reactions (including anaphylactic and anaphylactoid reactions),” and death (see page 9).

The Milan decision is sober, informed and well-reasoned. The Ministry of Health has stated that it has appealed the Court’s decision, but that appeal will likely take several years, and its outcome is uncertain.

many blessings

this will mean if the government makes this mandatory

the government will be paying the compensation

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/brain-damaged-uk-victims-swine-flu-vaccine-get-60-milli...

deliberately to bankrupt the government of australia

keep voting !

Cheesy

There is NO sound medical research out there that proves any link whatsoever between vaccines and autism - none whatsoever. It's absolute rubbish.

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it_is_the_light

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Re: No jab no pay law to cut childcare benefits
Reply #19 - Oct 21^st, 2015 at 8:03am

oh ok ,

60 million compo for nothing aye ?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/brain-damaged-uk-victims-swine-flu-vaccine-get-60-milli...

Brain-Damaged UK Victims of Swine Flu Vaccine to Get £60 Million Compensation

By Tom Porter
March 2, 2014 14:40 GMT

Patients who suffered brain damage as a result of taking a swine flu vaccine are to receive multi-million-pound payouts from the UK government.

The government is expected to receive a bill of approximately £60 million, with each of the 60 victims expected to receive about £1 million each.

Peter Todd, a lawyer who represented many of the claimants, told the Sunday Times: "There has never been a case like this before. The victims of this vaccine have an incurable and lifelong condition and will require extensive medication."

Following the swine flu outbreak of 2009, about 60 million people, most of them children, received the vaccine.

It was subsequently revealed that the vaccine, Pandemrix, can cause narcolepsy and cataplexy in about one in 16,000 people, and many more are expected to come forward with the symptoms.

Across Europe, more than 800 children are so far known to have been made ill by the vaccine.

Narcolepsy affects a person's sleeping cycle, leaving them unable to sleep for more than 90 minutes at a time, and causing them to fall unconscious during the day. The condition damages mental function and memory, and can lead to hallucinations and mental illness.

Cataplexy causes a person to lose consciousness when they are experiencing heightened emotion, including when they are laughing.

The Pandemrix vaccine was manufactured by pharmaceuticals giant Glaxo Smith Kline, which refused to supply governments unless it was indemnified against any claim for damage caused. The company will pay the bill, and claim the money back from the government.

"There's no doubt in my mind whatsoever that Pandemrix increased the occurrence of narcolepsy onset in children in some countries - and probably in most countries," Emmanuelle Mignot, a specialist in sleep disorder at Stanford University in the United States told Reuters.

Mignot has been paid by GSK to research the effects of the drug.

Among those affected are NHS medical staff, many of whom are now unable to do their jobs because of the symptoms brought on by the vaccine. They will be suing the government for millions in lost earnings.

However, the vast majority of patients affected - around 80% - are children.

Among them is Josh Hadfield, 8, from Somerset, who is on anti-narcolepsy drugs costing £15,000 a year to help him stay awake during the school day.

"If you make him laugh, he collapses. His memory is shot. There is no cure. He says he wishes he hadn't been born. I feel incredibly guilty about letting him have the vaccine," said his mother Caroline Hadfield, 43.

Despite a 2011 warning from the European Medicines Agency against using the vaccine on those under 20 and a study indicating a 13-fold heightened risk of narcolepsy in vaccinated children, GSK has refused to acknowledge a link.

"Further research is needed to confirm what role the vaccine may have played in the development of narcolepsy in those affected," the company said in a statement.

Quote:

Among them is Josh Hadfield, 8, from Somerset, who is on anti-narcolepsy drugs costing £15,000 a year to help him stay awake during the school day.

"If you make him laugh, he collapses. His memory is shot. There is no cure. He says he wishes he hadn't been born. I feel incredibly guilty about letting him have the vaccine," said his mother Caroline Hadfield, 43.

Josh Hadfield does not share your ignorance

your comments are disregarded

namaste

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mariacostel

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Re: No jab no pay law to cut childcare benefits
Reply #20 - Oct 21^st, 2015 at 8:07am

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:11am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 6:37am:

A PLAN to cut childcare benefits from parents who fail to immunise their children is a step closer to passing parliament.

Only those with a valid medical reason will be exempt from the $500 million budget-saving crackdown on anti-vaxxers under legislation which passed the lower house on Tuesday.

MPs from both sides of politics spoke in support of vaccinations as a safe and vital public health measure.

“No one wants to see a child die from whooping cough,” government MP Natasha Griggs said.

Labor frontbencher Tanya Plibersek reflected on the experience of Australia’s Ambassador in Washington and former opposition leader Kim Beazley who woke up paralysed as a five-year-old struck with polio.

“That’s how recently this disease ... stalked the Australian community,” she said.

“I can’t imagine the fear that little boy felt, but I can certainly imagine the fear of his mother.” Social Services Minister Christian Porter spoke of growing up with a cousin who contracted polio.

The bill now proceeds to the Senate for debate.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/no-jab-no-pay-law-to-cut-ch...

Good!

Exactly. And the unwashed, unvaccinated, gender-neutral, gay, atheist Greens wont be able to stop it

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Kytro

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Re: No jab no pay law to cut childcare benefits
Reply #21 - Oct 21^st, 2015 at 8:11am

aquascoot wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:53am:

I will bet there is a register and armies of clerks sending out letters and second letters and collating data and liasing with centrelink and IT specialists trying to link all the data from 10,000 gp clinics, 1000 councils, 10,000 schools that vaccinate and linking to all the day care centres and then there will be stuff ups with data and more recalls and more meetings between the various people involved.

So GP's nurses, teachers, childcare workers, council staff, centrelink staff will all be spending time getting up to speed with this.

yes , it will use resources.

all so some minister can stand up in parliament in 12 months and say we have gone from 92 % to 94 % vaccination rates.

whooppeee do.

lets celebrate by closing down the health sector.
all our problems are solved. no one will ever need health care again

Basically you would need to provide an immunisation schedule form certified by a GP, and even if they were to use an automatic system, this data is already recorded on MyGov, which links into Centrelink and Medicare.

The idea that withholding payments is going to substantially more expensive seems unlikely. it is possible to bungle it so it is, but there isn't a good reason for it.

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aquascoot

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Re: No jab no pay law to cut childcare benefits
Reply #22 - Oct 21^st, 2015 at 8:22am

Kytro wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 8:11am:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:53am:

I will bet there is a register and armies of clerks sending out letters and second letters and collating data and liasing with centrelink and IT specialists trying to link all the data from 10,000 gp clinics, 1000 councils, 10,000 schools that vaccinate and linking to all the day care centres and then there will be stuff ups with data and more recalls and more meetings between the various people involved.

So GP's nurses, teachers, childcare workers, council staff, centrelink staff will all be spending time getting up to speed with this.

yes , it will use resources.

all so some minister can stand up in parliament in 12 months and say we have gone from 92 % to 94 % vaccination rates.

whooppeee do.

lets celebrate by closing down the health sector.
all our problems are solved. no one will ever need health care again

Basically you would need to provide an immunisation schedule form certified by a GP, and even if they were to use an automatic system, this data is already recorded on MyGov, which links into Centrelink and Medicare.

The idea that withholding payments is going to substantially more expensive seems unlikely. it is possible to bungle it so it is, but there isn't a good reason for it.

fair enough Kyrto, you argue very well

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mariacostel

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Re: No jab no pay law to cut childcare benefits
Reply #23 - Oct 21^st, 2015 at 8:33am

aquascoot wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 8:22am:

Kytro wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 8:11am:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:53am:

I will bet there is a register and armies of clerks sending out letters and second letters and collating data and liasing with centrelink and IT specialists trying to link all the data from 10,000 gp clinics, 1000 councils, 10,000 schools that vaccinate and linking to all the day care centres and then there will be stuff ups with data and more recalls and more meetings between the various people involved.

So GP's nurses, teachers, childcare workers, council staff, centrelink staff will all be spending time getting up to speed with this.

yes , it will use resources.

all so some minister can stand up in parliament in 12 months and say we have gone from 92 % to 94 % vaccination rates.

whooppeee do.

lets celebrate by closing down the health sector.
all our problems are solved. no one will ever need health care again

Basically you would need to provide an immunisation schedule form certified by a GP, and even if they were to use an automatic system, this data is already recorded on MyGov, which links into Centrelink and Medicare.

The idea that withholding payments is going to substantially more expensive seems unlikely. it is possible to bungle it so it is, but there isn't a good reason for it.

fair enough Kyrto, you argue very well

I think the rationale is powerful enough that any practical considerations are secondary. After all, you only have to do it once.

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it_is_the_light

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Re: No jab no pay law to cut childcare benefits
Reply #24 - Oct 21^st, 2015 at 8:45am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:54am:

it_is_the_light wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:23am:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-media-blackout-italian-courts-rule-vaccines-cau...

U.S. Media Blackout: Italian Courts Rule Vaccines Cause Autism

http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Vaccine-Money-400x225.jp...

On September 23, 2014, an Italian court in Milan awarded compensation to a boy for vaccine-induced autism. (See the Italian document here.) A childhood vaccine against six childhood diseases caused the boy’s permanent autism and brain damage.

While the Italian press has devoted considerable attention to this decision and its public health implications, the U.S. press has been silent.

Italy’s National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program

Like the U.S., Italy has a national vaccine injury compensation program to give some financial support to those people who are injured by compulsory and recommended vaccinations. The Italian infant plaintiff received three doses of GlaxoSmithKline’s Infanrix Hexa, a hexavalent vaccine administered in the first year of life. These doses occurred from March to October 2006. The vaccine is to protect children from polio, diphtheria, tetanus, hepatitis B, pertussis and Haemophilus influenza type B. In addition to these antigens, however, the vaccine then contained thimerosal, the mercury-containing preservative, aluminum, an adjuvant, as well as other toxic ingredients. The child regressed into autism shortly after receiving the three doses.

When the parents presented their claim for compensation first to the Ministry of Health, as they were required to do, the Ministry rejected it. Therefore, the family sued the Ministry in a court of general jurisdiction, an option which does not exist in the same form in the U.S.

Court Decision: Mercury and Aluminum in Vaccine Caused Autism

Based on expert medical testimony, the court concluded that the child more likely than not suffered autism and brain damage because of the neurotoxic mercury, aluminum and his particular susceptibility from a genetic mutation. The Court also noted that Infanrix Hexa contained thimerosal, now banned in Italy because of its neurotoxicity, “in concentrations greatly exceeding the maximum recommended levels for infants weighing only a few kilograms.”

Presiding Judge Nicola Di Leo considered another piece of damning evidence: a 1271-page confidential GlaxoSmithKline report (now available on the Internet). This industry document provided ample evidence of adverse events from the vaccine, including five known cases of autism resulting from the vaccine’s administration during its clinical trials (see table at page 626, excerpt below).

http://network.sophiamedia.com/vaccineimpact/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2015/01/...

Italian Government, Not Vaccine Maker, Pays for Vaccine Damages

As in many other developed countries, government, not industry, compensates families in the event of vaccine injury. Thus GSK’s apparent lack of concern for the vaccine’s adverse effects is notable and perhaps not surprising.

In the final assessment, the report states that:

“[t]he benefit/risk profile of Infanrix hexa continues to be favourable,” despite GSK’s acknowledgement that the vaccine causes side effects including “anaemia haemolytic autoimmune,thrombocytopenia, thrombocytopenic purpura, autoimmune thrombocytopenia, idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, haemolytic anemia, cyanosis, injection site nodule, abcess and injection site abscess, Kawasaki’s disease, important neurological events (including encephalitis and encephalopathy), Henoch-Schonlein purpura, petechiae, purpura, haematochezia, allergic reactions (including anaphylactic and anaphylactoid reactions),” and death (see page 9).

The Milan decision is sober, informed and well-reasoned. The Ministry of Health has stated that it has appealed the Court’s decision, but that appeal will likely take several years, and its outcome is uncertain.

many blessings

this will mean if the government makes this mandatory

the government will be paying the compensation

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/brain-damaged-uk-victims-swine-flu-vaccine-get-60-milli...

deliberately to bankrupt the government of australia

keep voting !

Cheesy

There is NO sound medical research out there that proves any link whatsoever between vaccines and autism - none whatsoever. It's absolute rubbish.

http://www.infowars.com/vaccine-bombshell-baby-monkeys-given-popular-vaccines-de...

Vaccine bombshell: Baby monkeys develop autism after routine CDC vaccinations

Ethan A. Huff
Natural News
May 7, 2012
(NaturalNews) If vaccines play absolutely no role in the development of childhood autism, a claim made by many medical authorities today, then why are some of the most popular vaccines commonly administered to children demonstrably causing autism in animal primates? This is the question many people are now asking after a recent study conducted by scientists at the University of Pittsburgh (UP) in Pennsylvania revealed that many of the infant monkeys given standard doses of childhood vaccines as part of the new research developed autism symptoms.

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...

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Re: No jab no pay law to cut childcare benefits
Reply #25 - Oct 21^st, 2015 at 9:00am

aquascoot wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 7:01am:

Measles, mumps, german measles are pretty well eliminated once you get to 90 % herd immunity, there is no need to push for every last kid.

From a public health standpoint that's correct, but from a pharamaceutical industry profit standpoint, 100% isn't enough.

You can expect to hear increasing calls for teens and adults to get booster shots to keep the $$$ flowing.

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In the fullness of time...

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 45753 Gender:	Re: No jab no pay law to cut childcare benefits Reply #26 - Oct 21^st, 2015 at 9:20am There was a measles epidemic not that long ago. I think that is the incentive for the push for vaccinations now.
Back to top	Get the vaxx! 💉💉 If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings. IP Logged

... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: No jab no pay law to cut childcare benefits Reply #27 - Oct 21^st, 2015 at 9:21am Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 9:20am: There was a measles epidemic not that long ago. I think that is the incentive for the push for vaccinations now. What were the results of this epidemic? ie how many infected, number of deaths etc?
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 45753 Gender:	Re: No jab no pay law to cut childcare benefits Reply #28 - Oct 21^st, 2015 at 9:31am Measles can kill. I just remember there was an epidemic not that long ago.
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aquascoot

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Re: No jab no pay law to cut childcare benefits
Reply #29 - Oct 21^st, 2015 at 10:01am

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 21^st, 2015 at 9:31am:

Measles can kill. I just remember there was an epidemic not that long ago.

Many things can kill and it should be about the most bang for your buck.

i read an interesting analysis on the barriers that can be put down the middle of , say, a 4 lane highway.

they ranged from nothing to wire strands to aluminium armco to concrete partitioning.

each option came with a costing and an analysis of the number of deaths and serious injuries based on the funding.

it may well be that putting aluminium gaurdrails down the pacific highway is a far more cost effective way to save lives.

it may even be that getting rid of one of crooks level crossings is more cost effective.

i just dont like politicians grand standing like they need a medal for going over the same ground over and over and over again.

its nauseating

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Question: Is this a good policy?
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