Australian Politics Forum - Germaine Greer: Transgender women are 'not women'

Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Germaine Greer: Transgender women are 'not women'
Reply #180 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 9:06pm

transsexual
1. One who wishes to be considered by society as a member of the opposite sex, because they have the external genitalia and secondary sexual characteristics of one sex, but their personal identification and psychosocial configuration is that of the opposite sex.

2. One who has undergone a sex change

What example could you possibly need?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=transsexual

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Germaine Greer: Transgender women are 'not women'
Reply #181 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 5:37am

O))) wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2015 at 5:31pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 5:08pm:

O))) wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 2:03pm:

It's quite obvious you haven't read every shred of left-wing literature or know the thoughts and preferences of every single left-winger in existence, so why pretend like you have?

Step outside of your house and partisan message boards and you'll find left-wing views are in fact very diverse and not monolithic at all.

Try me. What is it that I am unaware of?

Read my post again. You're clearly unaware that not all lefties hate the past and that they hold an array of views, counter to the monolithic view of the left you seem to be trying to present.

Point me to a theorist that writes positively of the West.

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Phemanderac

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Re: Germaine Greer: Transgender women are 'not women'
Reply #182 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 5:41am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 5:37am:

Point me to a theorist that writes positively of the West

Now is that ALL positively or just who makes some observations about positives? It's an important distinction after all.

To write honestly is to expose the warts sometimes. Denial that we have warts leads to dishonest propaganda.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Germaine Greer: Transgender women are 'not women'
Reply #183 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 5:46am

Karnal wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 7:33pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 6:39pm:

Karnal wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 6:36pm:

There’s no such thing as "progressivism", Mistie. The closest we have is Hegel, who was a proto-conservative. Hegel first use the notion of progress to show history moving towards an end-point.

Mind you, Hegel inspired Marx, so there you have it. "Progressives".

The owl of Minerva flies only at the dusk.

The concept of progress has changed over time. The version of it I take issue with is that since about the 1960s: the obsession with "victims" and its link to identity politics.

It’s the only thing that informs your point of view, Mistie. Your entire stance is based on your opposition to "progressivism".

Not at all. Any criticism of 'progressivism' is only a secondary consideration or after thought. Non-'progressives' affirm themselves first.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Germaine Greer: Transgender women are 'not women'
Reply #184 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 5:50am

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 5:41am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 5:37am:

Point me to a theorist that writes positively of the West

Now is that ALL positively or just who makes some observations about positives? It's an important distinction after all.

To write honestly is to expose the warts sometimes. Denial that we have warts leads to dishonest propaganda.

İf he names a theorist İ can comment further. İn my experince though, İ've not read a leftist that thinks the West has been a force for good.

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Phemanderac

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Re: Germaine Greer: Transgender women are 'not women'
Reply #185 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:03am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 5:50am:

İf he names a theorist İ can comment further. İn my experince though, İ've not read a leftist that thinks the West has been a force for good.

Oh I see, interesting.

So the West has been a force for good? I think that might be your problem right there. The West has been a force of self interest, the upside is, that sometimes there is a knock on effect of "good".

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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Karnal

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Re: Germaine Greer: Transgender women are 'not women'
Reply #186 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 8:12am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 5:46am:

Karnal wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 7:33pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 6:39pm:

Karnal wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2015 at 6:36pm:

There’s no such thing as "progressivism", Mistie. The closest we have is Hegel, who was a proto-conservative. Hegel first use the notion of progress to show history moving towards an end-point.

Mind you, Hegel inspired Marx, so there you have it. "Progressives".

The owl of Minerva flies only at the dusk.

The concept of progress has changed over time. The version of it I take issue with is that since about the 1960s: the obsession with "victims" and its link to identity politics.

It’s the only thing that informs your point of view, Mistie. Your entire stance is based on your opposition to "progressivism".

Not at all. Any criticism of 'progressivism' is only a secondary consideration or after thought. Non-'progressives' affirm themselves first.

But Mistie, all you’ve identified as a set of values thus far is Confuscianism.

Apart from "progressives", is there something I’ve missed?

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Karnal

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Re: Germaine Greer: Transgender women are 'not women'
Reply #187 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 8:26am

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:03am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 5:50am:

İf he names a theorist İ can comment further. İn my experince though, İ've not read a leftist that thinks the West has been a force for good.

Oh I see, interesting.

So the West has been a force for good? I think that might be your problem right there. The West has been a force of self interest, the upside is, that sometimes there is a knock on effect of "good".

The West is a collection of ideas. None of them are inherently good or evil, they just shape the competing set of discourses we call the West. It’s hard to judge good and evil when we’re subjects of these discourses. They shape us.

The liberal tradition has its problems, just as Fascism is not "evil" as is generally held. But for my life, I’d take the liberal tradition hands down. I’d add empirical skepticism to this - every "truth" should be rigourously tested and examined.

This isn’t left or right. There are liberals in the vein of John Stuart Mill and empiricists like John Locke on either side. Left and right are just a political abstractions. They exist, but there are other forces that shape them.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Germaine Greer: Transgender women are 'not women'
Reply #188 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:23pm

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:03am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 5:50am:

İf he names a theorist İ can comment further. İn my experince though, İ've not read a leftist that thinks the West has been a force for good.

Oh I see, interesting.

So the West has been a force for good? I think that might be your problem right there. The West has been a force of self interest, the upside is, that sometimes there is a knock on effect of "good".

Well, if your definition of good is an agrarian lifestyle and monarchic rule, or the stone age tribal life before the modern era, then you probably have a point. But something tells me lefties wouldn't last more than a few days before modernisation.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Germaine Greer: Transgender women are 'not women'
Reply #189 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:26pm

Karnal wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 8:26am:

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:03am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 5:50am:

İf he names a theorist İ can comment further. İn my experince though, İ've not read a leftist that thinks the West has been a force for good.

Oh I see, interesting.

So the West has been a force for good? I think that might be your problem right there. The West has been a force of self interest, the upside is, that sometimes there is a knock on effect of "good".

The West is a collection of ideas. None of them are inherently good or evil, they just shape the competing set of discourses we call the West. It’s hard to judge good and evil when we’re subjects of these discourses. They shape us.

The liberal tradition has its problems, just as Fascism is not "evil" as is generally held. But for my life, I’d take the liberal tradition hands down. I’d add empirical skepticism to this - every "truth" should be rigourously tested and examined.

This isn’t left or right. There are liberals in the vein of John Stuart Mill and empiricists like John Locke on either side. Left and right are just a political abstractions. They exist, but there are other forces that shape them.

It's more than just a collection of ideas. What about the advances in the sciences, particularly medical science, and all the technology that makes life easier? Lefties like to paint the modern West as some great evil, but if they lived before modernisation they probably would be dead by some disease, virus or war before they were 30.

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mothra

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Re: Germaine Greer: Transgender women are 'not women'
Reply #190 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:40pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:26pm:

Karnal wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 8:26am:

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:03am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 5:50am:

İf he names a theorist İ can comment further. İn my experince though, İ've not read a leftist that thinks the West has been a force for good.

Oh I see, interesting.

So the West has been a force for good? I think that might be your problem right there. The West has been a force of self interest, the upside is, that sometimes there is a knock on effect of "good".

The West is a collection of ideas. None of them are inherently good or evil, they just shape the competing set of discourses we call the West. It’s hard to judge good and evil when we’re subjects of these discourses. They shape us.

The liberal tradition has its problems, just as Fascism is not "evil" as is generally held. But for my life, I’d take the liberal tradition hands down. I’d add empirical skepticism to this - every "truth" should be rigourously tested and examined.

This isn’t left or right. There are liberals in the vein of John Stuart Mill and empiricists like John Locke on either side. Left and right are just a political abstractions. They exist, but there are other forces that shape them.

It's more than just a collection of ideas. What about the advances in the sciences, particularly medical science, and all the technology that makes life easier? Lefties like to paint the modern West as some great evil, but if they lived before modernisation they probably would be dead by some disease, virus or war before they were 30.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that none of our great minds have been left leaning Mistie? That great advancements have not been made by left leaning people?

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Germaine Greer: Transgender women are 'not women'
Reply #191 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:45pm

mothra wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:40pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:26pm:

Karnal wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 8:26am:

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:03am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 5:50am:

İf he names a theorist İ can comment further. İn my experince though, İ've not read a leftist that thinks the West has been a force for good.

Oh I see, interesting.

So the West has been a force for good? I think that might be your problem right there. The West has been a force of self interest, the upside is, that sometimes there is a knock on effect of "good".

The West is a collection of ideas. None of them are inherently good or evil, they just shape the competing set of discourses we call the West. It’s hard to judge good and evil when we’re subjects of these discourses. They shape us.

The liberal tradition has its problems, just as Fascism is not "evil" as is generally held. But for my life, I’d take the liberal tradition hands down. I’d add empirical skepticism to this - every "truth" should be rigourously tested and examined.

This isn’t left or right. There are liberals in the vein of John Stuart Mill and empiricists like John Locke on either side. Left and right are just a political abstractions. They exist, but there are other forces that shape them.

It's more than just a collection of ideas. What about the advances in the sciences, particularly medical science, and all the technology that makes life easier? Lefties like to paint the modern West as some great evil, but if they lived before modernisation they probably would be dead by some disease, virus or war before they were 30.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that none of our great minds have been left leaning Mistie? That great advancements have not been made by left leaning people?

The concept of progress before the 1960s differs to what it is today. Today's "progressives" have nothing in common with the progressives of yesteryear.

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mothra

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Re: Germaine Greer: Transgender women are 'not women'
Reply #192 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:46pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:45pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:40pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:26pm:

Karnal wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 8:26am:

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:03am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 5:50am:

İf he names a theorist İ can comment further. İn my experince though, İ've not read a leftist that thinks the West has been a force for good.

Oh I see, interesting.

So the West has been a force for good? I think that might be your problem right there. The West has been a force of self interest, the upside is, that sometimes there is a knock on effect of "good".

The West is a collection of ideas. None of them are inherently good or evil, they just shape the competing set of discourses we call the West. It’s hard to judge good and evil when we’re subjects of these discourses. They shape us.

The liberal tradition has its problems, just as Fascism is not "evil" as is generally held. But for my life, I’d take the liberal tradition hands down. I’d add empirical skepticism to this - every "truth" should be rigourously tested and examined.

This isn’t left or right. There are liberals in the vein of John Stuart Mill and empiricists like John Locke on either side. Left and right are just a political abstractions. They exist, but there are other forces that shape them.

It's more than just a collection of ideas. What about the advances in the sciences, particularly medical science, and all the technology that makes life easier? Lefties like to paint the modern West as some great evil, but if they lived before modernisation they probably would be dead by some disease, virus or war before they were 30.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that none of our great minds have been left leaning Mistie? That great advancements have not been made by left leaning people?

The concept of progress before the 1960s differs to what it is today. Today's "progressives" have nothing in common with the progressives of yesteryear.

So no great innovations are today made by left leaning people?

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Karnal

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Re: Germaine Greer: Transgender women are 'not women'
Reply #193 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:53pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:26pm:

Karnal wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 8:26am:

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:03am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 5:50am:

İf he names a theorist İ can comment further. İn my experince though, İ've not read a leftist that thinks the West has been a force for good.

Oh I see, interesting.

So the West has been a force for good? I think that might be your problem right there. The West has been a force of self interest, the upside is, that sometimes there is a knock on effect of "good".

The West is a collection of ideas. None of them are inherently good or evil, they just shape the competing set of discourses we call the West. It’s hard to judge good and evil when we’re subjects of these discourses. They shape us.

The liberal tradition has its problems, just as Fascism is not "evil" as is generally held. But for my life, I’d take the liberal tradition hands down. I’d add empirical skepticism to this - every "truth" should be rigourously tested and examined.

This isn’t left or right. There are liberals in the vein of John Stuart Mill and empiricists like John Locke on either side. Left and right are just a political abstractions. They exist, but there are other forces that shape them.

It's more than just a collection of ideas. What about the advances in the sciences, particularly medical science, and all the technology that makes life easier? Lefties like to paint the modern West as some great evil, but if they lived before modernisation they probably would be dead by some disease, virus or war before they were 30.

Doesn’t sound like you’ve read much on the philosophy of science, Mistie. Science is based on scientific ideas.

Reactionaries like to paint the modern West as some great evil. You may have read a few of them here. Do you want me to name names?

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Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10266 Gender:	Re: Germaine Greer: Transgender women are 'not women' Reply #194 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:06pm Scientific ideas have an empirical basis. Those ideas from the social sciences about some utopian future or the creation of 'victims' has nothing to do with empiricism or science.
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