Australian Politics Forum - The trend continues

mothra

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Re: The trend continues - mama's new boyfriend ..
Reply #210 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 1:02pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 12:53pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:56am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:38am:

... wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:36am:

mothra wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:27am:

Statistically, more fathers kill their children than mothers.

Incorrect. Do not confuse STEP fathers with fathers.

Good point... 'New Lion' in the pride kills off offspring of the former "Lion".... "Noble Lioness" stands by and lets it happen... or helps....

I'm trying to limit this area of open warfare between men and women to Australia - and current figures show that women are leading..... step-fathers of any ilk are not natural fathers... mothers are natural mothers.....

The fact that children are far too often placed in that situation raises questions about our current society, and how it is being handled.

I think your Canadian link is about abuse/neglect primarily, Mothra - I would prefer that we address the issues here and not there - perhaps once we find some answers, we can relay them to Canada.

You're back to blaming women again Grap.

My Canadian link was about filicide. It supports all the other links i've read.

When fathers kill their children, it is usually to seek revenge on the mother. Women who kill were more likely to do it because they were killing themselves and didn't want to leave the kids behind.

Neglect cases are almost always the mother, or both parents.

You are too quick to jump on the 'blaming the women' bandwagon... what part of 'new lion does and lioness does not interfere' - which is what happens with lions in nature - is blaming the woman exclusively?

And this is diverting from the reality that natural fathers rarely kill or abuse their natural children. There is just as much a connection between father and child as there is between mother and child - and in the cases where a father finds out he is not the real father, often years later, mostly they say:- "Well, he/she is still my son/daughter.. always has been... but the woman has got to go". Then the pain and the fun starts, because the principal caregiver, the betrayer, has front running.

Perhaps some women need to take a good look at themselves.. as do the legislators and courts.... before they start heaping pain upon pain for the innocent....

I disagree that natural fathers rarely abuse their children. Child abuse is all too common.

I agree men rarely kill their kids. Women rarely kill their kids. Killing your kids is rare. Death through neglect is more common.

I don't know what you mean by "the woman has to go"? Hasn't she already gone?

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Phemanderac

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Re: The trend continues - mama's new boyfriend ..
Reply #211 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 1:03pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:47am:

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:43am:

... wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:36am:

mothra wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:27am:

Statistically, more fathers kill their children than mothers.

Incorrect. Do not confuse STEP fathers with fathers.

That is a good point, of course, step fathers are still members of the male gender (albeit if they kill kids or beat people, not real men...)

I wonder how that impacts on the "stats"...

step-fathers of any ilk are not natural fathers... mothers are natural mothers.....

We need to very carefully draw lines here.... it appears from a casual reading that the figure that's been around for ages - that children are seven times more at risk in the company of their mother and 'new father' than in company of their natural father and mother.....

This raises questions about the way our society and family relationships are going... I hate to sound like a wowser, but.... most natural fathers don't abuse their children, and casting this as a gender issue is deeply insulting to most men, as well as sending the wrong message to women, police, courts and governments.

I see no end in sight.....

They're still male though and that is the ultimate issue here really...

I don't deny that men can be and are victims and get victimised. That's actually a given, but this pissing contest to claim one gender is worse than the other is futility personified. It might make you feel a bit better about your lot, I don't know, but it is otherwise a useless argument.

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mothra

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Re: The trend continues - mama's new boyfriend ..
Reply #212 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 1:04pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 1:00pm:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/seeking-to-understand-the-inexplicable-20120224-1...

This article doesn't differentiate between father and step-father - a serious anomaly that is evading the issues here, I think.

Do you have any statistics that show the differentiation between natural father killing and step father killing?

I can't find any.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The trend continues - mama's new boyfriend ..
Reply #213 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 1:36pm

mothra wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 1:04pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 1:00pm:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/seeking-to-understand-the-inexplicable-20120224-1...

This article doesn't differentiate between father and step-father - a serious anomaly that is evading the issues here, I think.

Do you have any statistics that show the differentiation between natural father killing and step father killing?

I can't find any.

Nah - can't find any - it seems thee is no will to draw a line there , which pretty much leaves it at the gender issue stage. Whether that is deliberate or not I can't say, but I agree with you that abuse and neglect of children has to cease, and we need to look at the root causes.

Remember my own background - not a joke.

"Oh, all right.. the black people and the Chinks, can stay... but we won't have the Irish!"

"Oh, all right... the cuckold son and daughter can stay.. but we won't have the woman!"

Follow my quirky way of approaching things?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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mothra

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Re: The trend continues - mama's new boyfriend ..
Reply #214 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 2:01pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 1:36pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 1:04pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 1:00pm:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/seeking-to-understand-the-inexplicable-20120224-1...

This article doesn't differentiate between father and step-father - a serious anomaly that is evading the issues here, I think.

Do you have any statistics that show the differentiation between natural father killing and step father killing?

I can't find any.

Nah - can't find any - it seems thee is no will to draw a line there , which pretty much leaves it at the gender issue stage. Whether that is deliberate or not I can't say, but I agree with you that abuse and neglect of children has to cease, and we need to look at the root causes.

Remember my own background - not a joke.

"Oh, all right.. the black people and the Chinks, can stay... but we won't have the Irish!"

"Oh, all right... the cuckold son and daughter can stay.. but we won't have the woman!"

Follow my quirky way of approaching things?

I found a really good study into children killed by natural parents versus stepparents if you're interested. I can't see a breakdown though but it talks at length about the risk factors and trends.

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/228349881_Children_killed_by_genetic_par...

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Re: The trend continues - mama's new boyfriend ..
Reply #215 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 2:23pm

Quote:

The “Cinderella effect”: Elevated mistreatment of stepchildren
in comparison to those living with genetic parents.
Martin Daly & Margo Wilson
Department of Psychology, Neuroscience & Behaviour
McMaster University
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada L8S 4K1

http://www.cep.ucsb.edu/buller/cinderella%20effect%20facts.pdf

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In the fullness of time...

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The trend continues - mama's new boyfriend ..
Reply #216 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 2:27pm

mothra wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 2:01pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 1:36pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 1:04pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 1:00pm:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/seeking-to-understand-the-inexplicable-20120224-1...

This article doesn't differentiate between father and step-father - a serious anomaly that is evading the issues here, I think.

Do you have any statistics that show the differentiation between natural father killing and step father killing?

I can't find any.

Nah - can't find any - it seems thee is no will to draw a line there , which pretty much leaves it at the gender issue stage. Whether that is deliberate or not I can't say, but I agree with you that abuse and neglect of children has to cease, and we need to look at the root causes.

Remember my own background - not a joke.

"Oh, all right.. the black people and the Chinks, can stay... but we won't have the Irish!"

"Oh, all right... the cuckold son and daughter can stay.. but we won't have the woman!"

Follow my quirky way of approaching things?

I found a really good study into children killed by natural parents versus stepparents if you're interested. I can't see a breakdown though but it talks at length about the risk factors and trends.

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/228349881_Children_killed_by_genetic_par...

Good work - I do wish they'd draw a line between natural parents and non-natural (unnatural?) ones.... mine were pretty unnatural..... but are forgiven their faults..

Working tonight so I'll read both those studies later.....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: The trend continues - mama's new boyfriend .. Reply #217 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 2:52pm ... wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:36am: mothra wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:27am: Statistically, more fathers kill their children than mothers. Incorrect. Do not confuse STEP fathers with fathers. so you dont equate a STEP FATHER with being a FATHER..really... what about being a MALE?
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Re: The trend continues - mama's new boyfriend ..
Reply #218 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 2:55pm

cods wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 2:52pm:

... wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:36am:

mothra wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:27am:

Statistically, more fathers kill their children than mothers.

Incorrect. Do not confuse STEP fathers with fathers.

so you dont equate a STEP FATHER with being a FATHER..really... what about being a MALE?

What?

A step father is not a father, and all fathers and stepfathers are male. I don't see the potential for confusion here.

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In the fullness of time...

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cods

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Re: The trend continues - mama's new boyfriend ..
Reply #219 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 3:02pm

mothra wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:59am:

... wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:48am:

Another factor that impacts "the stats" is men who are "officially" the biological father of a child, but find out they've been cuckolded and take it out in a murderous way.

That's just an incredibly sad state of affairs - the man has been betrayed in the most terrible way, but has no recourse, and his betrayer suffers no penalty, so he can be almost expected to explode with rage, but it isn't the kids fault.

Yep. More of it being the woman's fault.

if you are talking to grap he will always blame the female...this topic is more about the boy friends of single mothers....on which herb has already exploded...

HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM...

why dont we try and bring this back to the thread subject....this is after all an appalling case...this is one little boy being tortured and killed by TWO adults...

this is not the first case this year or last or the year before where a single womens boyfriend has killed her child...we have huge headlines about women being killed by their partners....they call it DOMESTIC VIOLENCE even teh govts call it that....

but what about these children????.... they make headlines for a very short time then its all about the boy friend girlfriend mother.....

the fact is..........person charged with this appalling murder their history is not allowed to be mentioned their faces are not allowed to be shown..lets do everything we can to protect those involved..... Angry

yet we couldnt protect those kids.....WHY?.....

please go back and read what they did to this little boy...........and no one stopped it happening..

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cods

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Re: The trend continues - mama's new boyfriend ..
Reply #220 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 3:05pm

... wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 2:55pm:

cods wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 2:52pm:

... wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:36am:

mothra wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:27am:

Statistically, more fathers kill their children than mothers.

Incorrect. Do not confuse STEP fathers with fathers.

so you dont equate a STEP FATHER with being a FATHER..really... what about being a MALE?

What?

A step father is not a father, and all fathers and stepfathers are male. I don't see the potential for confusion here.

then you do have a problem dont you.....imagine yourself as a little 4 year old...living with a male...how would you see him.... as your step father or your father..

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Re: The trend continues - mama's new boyfriend ..
Reply #221 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 3:19pm

cods wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 3:05pm:

... wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 2:55pm:

cods wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 2:52pm:

... wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:36am:

mothra wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 11:27am:

Statistically, more fathers kill their children than mothers.

Incorrect. Do not confuse STEP fathers with fathers.

so you dont equate a STEP FATHER with being a FATHER..really... what about being a MALE?

What?

A step father is not a father, and all fathers and stepfathers are male. I don't see the potential for confusion here.

then you do have a problem dont you.....imagine yourself as a little 4 year old...living with a male...how would you see him.... as your step father or your father..

What?

If "living with a male' is all youve got to go on, he might even be my brother. What the hell are you on about?

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In the fullness of time...

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mothra

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Re: The trend continues - mama's new boyfriend ..
Reply #222 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 3:34pm

... wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 2:23pm:

Quote:

The “Cinderella effect”: Elevated mistreatment of stepchildren
in comparison to those living with genetic parents.
Martin Daly & Margo Wilson
Department of Psychology, Neuroscience & Behaviour
McMaster University
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada L8S 4K1

http://www.cep.ucsb.edu/buller/cinderella%20effect%20facts.pdf

I'm not disputing that step-parents kill children.

I'm asking for the breakdown of child deaths attributable to fathers, mothers and step-fathers and step-mothers.

I'm wondering how you are substantiating your claim that biological mothers kill more than biological fathers, not including neglect, which is overly attributable to women or couples.. Is it in that link you posted? Perhaps you could provide further information? Page number perhaps?

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Kamal New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 31 Gender:	Re: The trend continues - mama's new boyfriend .. Reply #223 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 3:48pm Or maybe you could look it up yourself, now there's a thought. Then again old girl google is complicated for some, no?
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mothra

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Re: The trend continues - mama's new boyfriend ..
Reply #224 - Nov 6^th, 2015 at 3:50pm

Kamal wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 3:48pm:

Or maybe you could look it up yourself, now there's a thought. Then again old girl google is complicated for some, no?

Well neither Grappler nor myself have been able to find anything to substantiate that at all.

I thought Honky might, seeing as he is the one making the claim.

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