Australian Politics Forum - Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.

Lord Herbert

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #405 - Nov 7^th, 2015 at 10:24am

athos wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 9:18am:

Actually teaching children fictional religion that God and morality don't exist is a terrible child abuse.

I would rather teach children "fictional" morality than bestial atheist and humanistic "reality".

Children should be thought that's not normal that mail screws mail, woman screws woman and get certificate for that.

Stop shouting, Athole! Grin

And stop fictionalising what I've said in my posts here.

One more time for the slow learner at the back of the class:-

Religion did not invent morality, ethics, social values, and virtue.

It doesn't take a Son of God from a miraculous Virgin Birth to come up with the notion that it's to everyone's advantage if people treat others as they would wish to be treated themselves.

This is not a Divine edict. This is an ethic that has been learnt from social experience and passed down from generation to generation.

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athos

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #406 - Nov 7^th, 2015 at 11:50am

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 10:24am:

athos wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 9:18am:

Actually teaching children fictional religion that God and morality don't exist is a terrible child abuse.

I would rather teach children "fictional" morality than bestial atheist and humanistic "reality".

Children should be thought that's not normal that mail screws mail, woman screws woman and get certificate for that.

Stop shouting, Athole! Grin

And stop fictionalising what I've said in my posts here.

One more time for the slow learner at the back of the class:-

Religion did not invent morality, ethics, social values, and virtue.

It doesn't take a Son of God from a miraculous Virgin Birth to come up with the notion that it's to everyone's advantage if people treat others as they would wish to be treated themselves.

This is not a Divine edict. This is an ethic that has been learnt from social experience and passed down from generation to generation.

Dear Lord Dick None normal wants to go to your self destructive classes of a decadent "civilization" that is disappearing in front of our eyes. You are last who can talk about morality because you don't have one. For the start have a look how arrogant you are. You, your decadent shopping civilization and those alike you think that arrogance is a strength and modesty is a weakness. You children of Social Darwinism are destine to vanish in own moral quasi humanistic garbage or to pass little left of your freedom to your masters, Wall Street Oligarch. You are nothing else than a moral cripple.

"If there is no God everything is permitted"
F.M. Dostoevsky

Here is what message your Wall Street Master has to tell you:

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« Last Edit: Nov 7^th, 2015 at 12:23pm by athos »

Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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mariacostel

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #407 - Nov 7^th, 2015 at 12:29pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 6:23am:

____ wrote on Nov 6^th, 2015 at 9:31pm:

It works the other way around. It's for the christians to prove their mythology. Until then, it's child abuse.

Of course it is. I was a captive victim of this abuse at boarding school for 7 years. I've thought of suing for compensation through a cousin of mine who is a top barrister in London, but ... I can't be bothered ... and the publicity would turn me into a Reality TV celebrity on the news and Current Affairs programs which I would find 'invasive' of my privacy. Cool

It's a no-brainer that religious neurotics are given free reign under our laws to attempt to brainwash our children through fear of repercussions from the Divine Being.

Wait until children grow up after having a religion-free education, and then as adults you can then try to persuade them to join your delusional cult about Super Hero sons of God, and virgin births, and Infallible Popes, and 72 choir boys in the Afterlife, etc etc.

And meanwhile .... not boasting, but ... link

If the Pope in the photo straightened his elbow ... that's what the Catholic church is really all about. Power over the peasants from the top-down.

That's is such rubbish. Firstly, your 'top barrister friend' is probably Grappleresque and it isn't as though he is going to do it for free. PLUS, you actually have to have a case. Being taught a topic you hated is not abuse. Being taught religion isn't brainwashing.

You have no case and I doubt your barrister friend even exists.

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mariacostel Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7344 Sydney Gender:	Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse. Reply #408 - Nov 7^th, 2015 at 12:30pm Stratos wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 8:23am: mariacostel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 7:51am: Once again, you are going to have to PROVE it. Who killed Goliath and how? We only have one record of it. I presume therefore that you will reject it for some religious-aversion reason.
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Stratos

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #409 - Nov 7^th, 2015 at 1:29pm

mariacostel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 12:30pm:

We only have one record of it. I presume therefore that you will reject it for some religious-aversion reason.

Debate is on contradictions now, not historicity. And there are three times Goliath is killed in the Bible, not one. Maybe you need to read it a bit closer?

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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mariacostel

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #410 - Nov 7^th, 2015 at 2:46pm

Stratos wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 1:29pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 12:30pm:

We only have one record of it. I presume therefore that you will reject it for some religious-aversion reason.

Debate is on contradictions now, not historicity. And there are three times Goliath is killed in the Bible, not one. Maybe you need to read it a bit closer?

I presume you are referring to the 1 Samuel passage where David is stated to have 'killed' him twice - once with the stone and once when cutting off his head. Don't you think that is a tad desperate? Modern translations tend to say 'killed' and 'finished him off'

The other reference I believe is where modern translation refer to the giant Gittite - the BROTHER of Goliath. Some older translations refer to him simply as Goliath, reflecting an ancient tradition of a brother taking on another brothers name in the cause of revenge.

It's not that hard.

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« Last Edit: Nov 7^th, 2015 at 3:05pm by mariacostel »

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Stratos

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #411 - Nov 7^th, 2015 at 3:39pm

mariacostel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 2:46pm:

The other reference I believe is where modern translation refer to the giant Gittite - the BROTHER of Goliath.

Yeah, with zero basis for doing so. Have a look at the original Hebrew if you don't believe me, don't take my word for it.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 2:46pm:

Some older translations refer to him simply as Goliath

Incorrect, ALL older translations refer to him as Goliath. The words "the brother of" were added in by the King James translators, which then became quite popular. Seems they were quite frugal with the ninth commandment, just like you Grin

. Nothing like a good lie to promote your religion, which condemns lies.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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mariacostel

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #412 - Nov 7^th, 2015 at 3:58pm

Stratos wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 3:39pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 2:46pm:

The other reference I believe is where modern translation refer to the giant Gittite - the BROTHER of Goliath.

Yeah, with zero basis for doing so. Have a look at the original Hebrew if you don't believe me, don't take my word for it.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 2:46pm:

Some older translations refer to him simply as Goliath

Incorrect, ALL older translations refer to him as Goliath. The words "the brother of" were added in by the King James translators, which then became quite popular. Seems they were quite frugal with the ninth commandment, just like you Grin

. Nothing like a good lie to promote your religion, which condemns lies.

Being the incredibly experienced translator of ancient texts that you obviously are, you would be aware that the old testament texts were not modern Hebrew. They were not modern literature using modern styles and structures. It didn't even have punctuation or spaces between words. translating such things is hard work. Just as modern writing often assumes a modern reader, ancient writing also assumed an ancient reader. They would have had no trouble at all with the brother assuming the older brother's name, especially when seeking revenge, just as brothers took slain brother's wives, children and property. The KJV adding in 'brother of' by way of appropriate translation, including the inferred meaning. Italicized text in the KJV are words - usually conjunctions - not in the original text but needed to make an English sentence. It is and was a common procedure as any actual translator would know.

Have you ever translated anything before? Have you translated and ancient text eg Latin into English? I have. There is a reason why google translate hasn't replaced translators. You need to know more than your words and syntax. You have to also be cognizant with history and culture so as not to end up sounding like a fool - as you are doing.

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Stratos

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #413 - Nov 7^th, 2015 at 4:24pm

Nonsense. Find me one reason to believe that it is referring to anyone other than Goliath from the original Hebrew.

Either your Bible is inconsistent, or someone at some point got something wrong. Either way, in the original form, there is a blatant contradiction.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 3:58pm:

not in the original text but needed to make an English sentence.

Which is garbage in this case. Remove the words they added and the sentence works fine.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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mariacostel

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #414 - Nov 7^th, 2015 at 7:01pm

Stratos wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 4:24pm:

Nonsense. Find me one reason to believe that it is referring to anyone other than Goliath from the original Hebrew.

Either your Bible is inconsistent, or someone at some point got something wrong. Either way, in the original form, there is a blatant contradiction.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 3:58pm:

not in the original text but needed to make an English sentence.

Which is garbage in this case. Remove the words they added and the sentence works fine.

It's not a contradiction at all. What it is, is something you refuse to accept an explanation for. You will go out of your way to find issues that you perceive to be contradictions and then refuse any and all explanations. It was the same with the 'eye-witness' issue. You simply rejected any and all evidence - and still do.

This is not my first rodeo. Christian apologetics is a well-studied and well presented topic. But it does require one thing - an open mind and you do not bring that to the table. Your take on translation of ancient texts is embarrassingly bad and you certainly wont get any actual scholars to support you. Translation of any language to another is not mere word substitution and syntax matching. If that were the case, translators would be out of business.

I've debated this kind of thing many times in the past. You are hardly the first. But there can not be any kind of civil or worthwhile debate if you simply reject all the evidence, including that of scholars in the field, just to maintain your anti-religious perspective. You have given absolutely no ground on any issue whatsoever.

This debate is terminated on the basis that only one of us is actually debating. The other is screaming his distaste of God and I will not participate in that.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #415 - Nov 7^th, 2015 at 7:03pm

mariacostel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 12:29pm:

That's is such rubbish. Firstly, your 'top barrister friend' is probably Grappleresque and it isn't as though he is going to do it for free.

It's a 'she'.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 12:29pm:

Being taught a topic you hated is not abuse.

I never said it was.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 12:29pm:

Being taught religion isn't brainwashing.

It most certainly is, and the proof is in the pudding. People who are otherwise reasonable, intelligent, and educated go into a hypnotic state of delusional fantasizing when their 'religion' switch is pulled - and psychologists and psychiatrists can explain in detail the mechanisms that are functioning in the religious neurotic.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 12:29pm:

You have no case and I doubt your barrister friend even exists.

That sounds very much like childish petulance to me.

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse. Reply #416 - Nov 7^th, 2015 at 7:09pm Notice how aggressive and un-Christian-like these bible jockeys become when you quietly tell them that religion was invented as a coping-mechanism for being better able to handle some of the more sad and disappointing moments in life ... the death of a loved one, etc.
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Setanta

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #417 - Nov 7^th, 2015 at 10:20pm

I think the story of Jericho is a good one about bible accuracy and acceptance of the historicity of the bible. When the wanderers of the desert, slaves from Egypt, for which there is no archaeological evidence, marched around Jericho, there was no walled city to march around. The exodus is fibs, the conquest of Canaan by Israelites is fibs as the Israelites were Canaanites and not newcomers, as archaeology shows. There was even a Mrs. El at one point.

Edit: Here from wiki which you all hate because it references it data.

Quote:

According to Joshua 6:1-27, the walls of Jericho fell after Joshua's Israelite army marched around the city blowing their trumpets. Excavations at Tell es-Sultan, the biblical Jericho, have failed to produce data to substantiate the biblical story,[2] and scholars are virtually unanimous that the Book of Joshua holds little of historical value.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jericho
Feel free to read the [2] and [3] references.

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He Man

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #418 - Nov 7^th, 2015 at 11:03pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 7:09pm:

Notice how aggressive and un-Christian-like these bible jockeys become when you quietly tell them that religion was invented as a coping-mechanism for being better able to handle some of the more sad and disappointing moments in life ... the death of a loved one, etc.

Yet here it is you abusing them.

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Setanta

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #419 - Nov 7^th, 2015 at 11:14pm

He Man wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 11:03pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 7^th, 2015 at 7:09pm:

Notice how aggressive and un-Christian-like these bible jockeys become when you quietly tell them that religion was invented as a coping-mechanism for being better able to handle some of the more sad and disappointing moments in life ... the death of a loved one, etc.

Yet here it is you abusing them.

Where is the abuse? There is certainly questioning, disbelief,but no abuse.

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