Australian Politics Forum - Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.

Lisa Jones

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #555 - Nov 14^th, 2015 at 6:14pm

Stratos wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 6:07pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 5:30pm:

Did you like the ending?

I personally am a bit more of a fan of the synoptic gospels to be honest. The end of John is a bit more out there than the others with all the miracles after the resurrection account, and Jesus hanging about for ages afterwards.

In fact, I prefer the way Jesus is depicted far better in the older gospels, much more of the "tragic hero" sort of character than the much more divine sounding record in John.

Ha! I meant the actual ending of the gospel......ie John Chapter 21 verses 24 & 25.

Did you notice anything in those verses?

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse. Reply #556 - Nov 14^th, 2015 at 6:22pm The accreditation? Anything in particular about it?
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Aussie

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #557 - Nov 14^th, 2015 at 6:24pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 6:14pm:

Stratos wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 6:07pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 5:30pm:

Did you like the ending?

I personally am a bit more of a fan of the synoptic gospels to be honest. The end of John is a bit more out there than the others with all the miracles after the resurrection account, and Jesus hanging about for ages afterwards.

In fact, I prefer the way Jesus is depicted far better in the older gospels, much more of the "tragic hero" sort of character than the much more divine sounding record in John.

Ha! I meant the actual ending of the gospel......ie John Chapter 21 verses 24 & 25.

Did you notice anything in those verses?

Plenty of people have and there is no definitive outcome.

Link.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse. Reply #558 - Nov 14^th, 2015 at 7:06pm Stratos wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 6:22pm: The accreditation? Anything in particular about it? There's nothing in the final verses of the final chapter of the Gospel of John about who wrote that Gospel? Nothing at all? Niente?
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mariacostel

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #559 - Nov 14^th, 2015 at 7:30pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 7:06pm:

Stratos wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 6:22pm:

The accreditation? Anything in particular about it?

There's nothing in the final verses of the final chapter of the Gospel of John about who wrote that Gospel?

Nothing at all?

Niente?

I am sure it wont meet the "Stratos Standard". He declares his standard of proof in a simple way: 'one level above that which is offered'.

John claims authorship and being an eye-witness, but by virtue of the stratos method, that fails. Of course, no single person in antiquity passes this methodology and so the entirely of history just evaporates - according to stratos.

But no... wait... SECULAR history is supported by this method by almost no evidence at all, but religious history needs video proof along with testimony from witnesses - still living of course.

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mariacostel

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #560 - Nov 14^th, 2015 at 7:31pm

Stratos wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 6:07pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 5:30pm:

Did you like the ending?

I personally am a bit more of a fan of the synoptic gospels to be honest. The end of John is a bit more out there than the others with all the miracles after the resurrection account, and Jesus hanging about for ages afterwards.

In fact, I prefer the way Jesus is depicted far better in the older gospels, much more of the "tragic hero" sort of character than the much more divine sounding record in John.

Of course you do. Can't have any of that 'miracle' stuff now, can we?

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Stratos

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #561 - Nov 14^th, 2015 at 7:49pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 7:06pm:

There's nothing in the final verses of the final chapter of the Gospel of John about who wrote that Gospel?

It mentions "The Disciple Jesus Loved", a title that has been debated for centuries. It does not mention a particular person. Don't you think that if it was the disciple John it would have mentioned it? The works by Paul clearly show that early Christian scriptures could have explicit authorship, but none of the gospels do this at all.

Keep in mind that the title of the book was not added in until much much later.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 7:31pm:

Of course you do. Can't have any of that 'miracle' stuff now, can we?

Maybe you read a different account of Mark. Chapter one, bam, exorcism and miracle healings. But the character of Jesus to me is a lot more human than other accounts. Mark has plenty of miracles, but the narrative is extremely different to John.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 7:30pm:

John claims authorship and being an eye-witness

"John" doesn't claim anything in the book.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 7:30pm:

Of course, no single person in antiquity passes this methodology and so the entirely of history just evaporates - according to stratos.

I have mentioned what would convince me 100% of the existence of Jesus, and have provided several examples of characters that appear in the Gospels (Herod and Pilate) that have contemporary evidence (historical accounts or archaeological evidence) that places them squarely where they are in history. No such evidence exists for Jesus however.

Are you still clinging to your claim that there are many eyewitnesses to Jesus by the way? If so, please provide them.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse. Reply #562 - Nov 14^th, 2015 at 7:59pm Oy vey STRATOS : 1. READ THE 2ND LAST VERSE OF THE GOSPEL OF JOHN. 2. COME BACK AND TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK IT MEANS. Thank you.
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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse. Reply #563 - Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:07pm That it claims that it was written by a disciple of Jesus. Just so we are on the same page, which Bible translation are you using? I used a few when reading it.
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Lisa Jones

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #564 - Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:16pm

Stratos wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:07pm:

That it claims that it was written by a disciple of Jesus.

Just so we are on the same page, which Bible translation are you using? I used a few when reading it.

Authorized King James Version of 1611.

I refuse to read any other English Bible.

FYI....I also have a few Greek Bibles on hand.

Anyway.....

The 2nd last verse of the Gospel of John states :

"This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true."

Now Stratos, what do you think this verse is actually saying?

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Stratos

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #565 - Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:25pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:16pm:

I refuse to read any other English Bible.

May I ask why?

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:16pm:

"This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true."

Like I said, that it is claimed to have been written ( or based on another written account possibly?) by a disciple of Jesus.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Aussie

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #566 - Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:34pm

Stratos wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:25pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:16pm:

I refuse to read any other English Bible.

May I ask why?

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:16pm:

"This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true."

Like I said, that it is claimed to have been written ( or based on another written account possibly?) by a disciple of Jesus.

Correct....it is hearsay upon hearsay etc etc etc and there is scholarly dispute which even includes suggestions of late editing.

But, no doubt Lisa Jones is above all that, and has the definitive answer.

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Stratos

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #567 - Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:43pm

Aussie wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:34pm:

there is scholarly dispute which even includes suggestions of late editing.

I haven't heard that specifically for this passage. There are some quite well known examples (the end of Mark most strikingly)

What specifically in this part has been suggested to be added later?

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Aussie

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #568 - Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:48pm

Stratos wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:43pm:

Aussie wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:34pm:

there is scholarly dispute which even includes suggestions of late editing.

I haven't heard that specifically for this passage. There are some quite well known examples (the end of Mark most strikingly)

What specifically in this part has been suggested to be added later?

Stratos.....I've just been googling and there was one site (I have no idea which one now) which included that suggestion. What is quite clear is that no-one knows, and anyone who claims to have greater understanding now of something allegedly written (and interpreted so many times since) around 90AD is kidding themself.

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Neferti

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Re: Religious Teaching Is Child Abuse.
Reply #569 - Nov 15^th, 2015 at 1:22pm

Aussie wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:48pm:

Stratos wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:43pm:

Aussie wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:34pm:

there is scholarly dispute which even includes suggestions of late editing.

I haven't heard that specifically for this passage. There are some quite well known examples (the end of Mark most strikingly)

What specifically in this part has been suggested to be added later?

Stratos.....I've just been googling and there was one site (I have no idea which one now) which included that suggestion. What is quite clear is that no-one knows, and anyone who claims to have greater understanding now of something allegedly written (and interpreted so many times since) around 90AD is kidding themself.

Why don't you ALL just open your BIBLE and read it and interpret it as YOU see fit? Googling to find out what "everybody else" is saying or thinking is ridiculous.

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