Australian Politics Forum - GST hike to hit poor hard and leave rich unscathed

Ex Dame Pansi Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 24168	Re: GST hike to hit poor hard and leave rich unscathed Reply #15 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:35am The fairest way to get the cigar money is to FORCE those people and companies that avoid paying their fair share. Change the rules so that they can't dodge paying tax.
Back to top	"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up..... IP Logged

cods

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 88048

Re: GST hike to hit poor hard and leave rich unscathed
Reply #16 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:37am

Kytro wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:30am:

cods wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:56am:

they never explain how they arrive at these figures....

how can they possibly know???

there is

NO GST ON FRESH FOOD....

how can they possibly come up with those stats...it doesnt make any sense at all.. those figures sound as if the poor people spend on expensive and the rich on cheap...

I dont thin k so...I am sure a rich person has much more expensive items [toys] than I would ever have...cars.boats.houses.holidays.wardrobe. gadgets I am sure its the rich who fill FIRST CLASS..all of which have GST on them.

maybe I have it all wrong..

and my house is full of all the latest must haves????

No. What happens is that GST is applied to [most] things people buy, not just things they use disposable income on. So increasing the GST increases that taxation which reduces disposable income. Since richer people have a larger amount of disposable income, even though GST affects them, it reduces it by a lower percentage.

A simple example:

$500, $100 disposable
@ 10% $50: 50/100 = 50%
@ 15% $55: 55/100 = 55%

$5000, $4000 disposable
@ 10% $500: 500/5000 = 10%
@ 15% $550: 550/5000 = 11%

rubbish.,....most poor people would spend most of their income on food....it doesnt attract GST...most rich people buy the things that DO attract GST...

hey a lot of people paid GST in MElb on Tuesday...

do you think increasing the GST will change Melb Cup day will it stop the punters going to the races.. buying a new hat putting a BET on.????... Roll Eyes

what about the grand finals??????.....those tickets also attract GST....and the hot dogs and the beer... Roll Eyes

and the silly flags and hats even the paint they use on their faces... Cheesy

... will another 5% cripple all that???

Back to top

IP Logged

cods

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 88048

Re: GST hike to hit poor hard and leave rich unscathed
Reply #17 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:39am

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:35am:

The fairest way to get the cigar money is to FORCE those people and companies that avoid paying their fair share.

Change the rules so that they can't dodge paying tax.

yeah get on to FAIRFAX now thats a start.. dont hear many lefties complain about FAIRFAX funny that. Grin

..

how do they claim for cigars pansi??

all tobacco pays TAX not once but twice..so how do they claim it back..

Back to top

IP Logged

cods

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 88048

Re: GST hike to hit poor hard and leave rich unscathed
Reply #18 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:41am

John Smith wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:32am:

cods wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:30am:

HOW... THEY COULD SPEND EVERYTHING ON FOOD...

when did you fly first class last??????....

what has savings got to do with GST.....

its not WHAT you spend its..

HOW AND WHAT ON.. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

I get a long strip of tape when I go shopping listing all my goodies with costs... at the bottom it usually says GST PAID....something between $1. and $4.

I dont buy cars or boats or booze or ciggies every day....all those attract BIG GST.....

you dont want to pay GST dont buy those goods its not compulsory...... \

in DENMARK every and I mean EVERYTHING ATTRACTS A 25% GST/VAT...

you buy a loaf of bread... its got 25% GST on it...now who doesnt buy bread???????????????...................

and guess what I didnt hear anyone whingeing about it either..

In England I think its now 20%... but I dont think its on food...[not sure]... get a life mate stop whingeing..stop looking at it as a them and us type of TAX like pansi always does....we all want the same things decent roads railways hospitals.. these need to be kept up to date so we have to fund them...this is the fairest way...

boy you're thick

the rich don't HAVE to buy a boat, they don't HAVE to take a trip, they'll do it when they can afford it ....

the poor HAVE to buy food, every bloody week

THERE IS NO GST ON FRESH FOOD...

check your grocery bill dear... it might surprise you...

Grin

and he says I am thick... Cheesy

Back to top

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 58835
Here
Gender: male

Re: GST hike to hit poor hard and leave rich unscathed
Reply #19 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:56am

cods wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:37am:

rubbish.,....most poor people would spend most of their income on food....it doesnt attract GST...most rich people buy the things that DO attract GST...

hey a lot of people paid GST in MElb on Tuesday...

do you think increasing the GST will change Melb Cup day will it stop the punters going to the races.. buying a new hat putting a BET on.????... Roll Eyes

what about the grand finals??????.....those tickets also attract GST....and the hot dogs and the beer... Roll Eyes

and the silly flags and hats even the paint they use on their faces... Cheesy

... will another 5% cripple all that???

rubbish.,....most poor people would spend most of their income on food....it doesnt attract GST

The proposal is to expend the GST to include everything - including food.

This could increase an average family shop by $35 to $50 alone. That is before you factor in another 5% on power, gas, health insurance, petrol, transport, phone, other insurance, incidentals.

Gas increase $140 year.

Phone $240.

I pointed out the other day that I currently buy milk every day and a loaf of bread 2 days out of 3. This will equate to an increase of about $160 a year for me just in bread and milk. That is just item 1 and 2 on the incidentals list.

People could be looking at an extra $2,000 a year on their primary grocery shop.

My BUPA would increase by $180 a year.

My petrol bill increases by $360 a year.

Anyone getting the picture about how much we are talking about here.

In my case zero compensation for any of this.

Back to top

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 74862
Gender: male

Re: GST hike to hit poor hard and leave rich unscathed
Reply #20 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 8:00am

cods wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:41am:

John Smith wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:32am:

cods wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:30am:

HOW... THEY COULD SPEND EVERYTHING ON FOOD...

when did you fly first class last??????....

what has savings got to do with GST.....

its not WHAT you spend its..

HOW AND WHAT ON.. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

I get a long strip of tape when I go shopping listing all my goodies with costs... at the bottom it usually says GST PAID....something between $1. and $4.

I dont buy cars or boats or booze or ciggies every day....all those attract BIG GST.....

you dont want to pay GST dont buy those goods its not compulsory...... \

in DENMARK every and I mean EVERYTHING ATTRACTS A 25% GST/VAT...

you buy a loaf of bread... its got 25% GST on it...now who doesnt buy bread???????????????...................

and guess what I didnt hear anyone whingeing about it either..

In England I think its now 20%... but I dont think its on food...[not sure]... get a life mate stop whingeing..stop looking at it as a them and us type of TAX like pansi always does....we all want the same things decent roads railways hospitals.. these need to be kept up to date so we have to fund them...this is the fairest way...

boy you're thick

the rich don't HAVE to buy a boat, they don't HAVE to take a trip, they'll do it when they can afford it ....

the poor HAVE to buy food, every bloody week

THERE IS NO GST ON FRESH FOOD...

check your grocery bill dear... it might surprise you...

Grin

and he says I am thick... Cheesy

not quite true cods, but lets pretend it is ...... then why did you mention bread?

besides, if you'd bothered to read the OP you'd see that one of the options being considered is to broaden its base to include food.

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 74862
Gender: male

Re: GST hike to hit poor hard and leave rich unscathed
Reply #21 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 8:02am

Dnarever wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:56am:

The proposal is to expend the GST to include everything - including food.

This could increase an average family shop by $35 to $50 alone. That is before you factor in another 5% on power, gas, health insurance, petrol, transport, phone, other insurance, incidentals.

Gas increase $140 year.

Phone $240.

after they cried for years about the carbon tax increasing the cost of power ... now they want to increase the cost of EVERYTHING Cheesy

and they wonder why they have no credibility?

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

Kat

Gold Member

Offline

Socialism IS the answer.

Posts: 17709
Everywhere and no-where
Gender: female

Re: GST hike to hit poor hard and leave rich unscathed
Reply #22 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 8:27am

cods wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:17am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:06am:

We don't want an increase in the GST.

We'd rather they tax the wealthy and mega wealthy accordingly.

If I was the boss multi millionaires would be paying 80% tax, that still leaves them 20% tax free to add to their nest egg, generous person I am.

This government has been told many times where to get the extra cigar money from but for some reason (self interests) they are loathe to do it.

your just not thinking straight pansi.. if they did that every RICH man would live off shore..

they tried it in ENgland... years ago.. and they left in droves....

its easier for a rich person to live abroad and they usually SPEND abroad at the same time...

if you won the lottery tomorrow and found yourself paying 80% on your interest where would you stash your money??>. the Caymen Islands Singapore maybe??????????????

GST is by percentage.. so if you buy a care worht $20.000 you pay $2000 in GST...if the car costs $85.000 you pay $8.500....

there is nothing stopping a poor person paying $85.000 for a car

.....its just very unlikely...a rich person is more likely to buy a new car every couple of years...not so much a poor person .. so who in the long run is paying the most GST..

if you smoke and drink then thats your choice they are not MUST HAVES...

but I know lots of so called poor people who do both and dont flinch at the cost...

Yes, but that truly WAS excessive taxation.

All WE want is for the bastards to pay their share, no more than that.

And I think you'll find there are plenty of things stopping poor people from buying $80K cars.

Back to top

IP Logged

Kytro

Gold Member

Offline

Blasphemy: a victimless
crime

Posts: 3409
Adelaide
Gender: male

Re: GST hike to hit poor hard and leave rich unscathed
Reply #23 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 8:27am

cods wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:37am:

Kytro wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:30am:

cods wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:56am:

they never explain how they arrive at these figures....

how can they possibly know???

there is

NO GST ON FRESH FOOD....

how can they possibly come up with those stats...it doesnt make any sense at all.. those figures sound as if the poor people spend on expensive and the rich on cheap...

I dont thin k so...I am sure a rich person has much more expensive items [toys] than I would ever have...cars.boats.houses.holidays.wardrobe. gadgets I am sure its the rich who fill FIRST CLASS..all of which have GST on them.

maybe I have it all wrong..

and my house is full of all the latest must haves????

No. What happens is that GST is applied to [most] things people buy, not just things they use disposable income on. So increasing the GST increases that taxation which reduces disposable income. Since richer people have a larger amount of disposable income, even though GST affects them, it reduces it by a lower percentage.

A simple example:

$500, $100 disposable
@ 10% $50: 50/100 = 50%
@ 15% $55: 55/100 = 55%

$5000, $4000 disposable
@ 10% $500: 500/5000 = 10%
@ 15% $550: 550/5000 = 11%

rubbish.,....most poor people would spend most of their income on food....it doesnt attract GST...most rich people buy the things that DO attract GST...

hey a lot of people paid GST in MElb on Tuesday...

do you think increasing the GST will change Melb Cup day will it stop the punters going to the races.. buying a new hat putting a BET on.????... Roll Eyes

what about the grand finals??????.....those tickets also attract GST....and the hot dogs and the beer... Roll Eyes

and the silly flags and hats even the paint they use on their faces... Cheesy

... will another 5% cripple all that???

I'm glad your "reasoning it out" is somehow better than NATSEM models.

The example was merely an illustration of how increased GST affects tax paid as a percentage of disposable income. The more disposable income to GST spending ratio you have the less impact a raise has on you.

Back to top

IP Logged

Baronvonrort

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 18574
Gender: male

Re: GST hike to hit poor hard and leave rich unscathed
Reply #24 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 9:02am

Stratos wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:03am:

Cods, it's more that the poorer you are, the more percentage of money you spend just in general, with very little money ending up in the bank after you've bought necessities.

The rich contribute far more with GST than the poor, the rich buy more expensive products which probably exceed what the poor pay in a year with a single purchase.

This percentage stuff is bullshit,the poor do not contribute anywhere near the taxes of the wealthy.

Back to top

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 74862
Gender: male

Re: GST hike to hit poor hard and leave rich unscathed
Reply #25 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 9:07am

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 9:02am:

Stratos wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:03am:

Cods, it's more that the poorer you are, the more percentage of money you spend just in general, with very little money ending up in the bank after you've bought necessities.

The rich contribute far more with GST than the poor, the rich buy more expensive products which probably exceed what the poor pay in a year with a single purchase.

This percentage stuff is bullshit,the poor do not contribute anywhere near the taxes of the wealthy.

the rich gain far more in tax cuts than they pay in additional GST

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 58835
Here
Gender: male

Re: GST hike to hit poor hard and leave rich unscathed
Reply #26 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 9:15am

Kat wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 8:27am:

cods wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:17am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:06am:

We don't want an increase in the GST.

We'd rather they tax the wealthy and mega wealthy accordingly.

If I was the boss multi millionaires would be paying 80% tax, that still leaves them 20% tax free to add to their nest egg, generous person I am.

This government has been told many times where to get the extra cigar money from but for some reason (self interests) they are loathe to do it.

your just not thinking straight pansi.. if they did that every RICH man would live off shore..

they tried it in ENgland... years ago.. and they left in droves....

its easier for a rich person to live abroad and they usually SPEND abroad at the same time...

if you won the lottery tomorrow and found yourself paying 80% on your interest where would you stash your money??>. the Caymen Islands Singapore maybe??????????????

GST is by percentage.. so if you buy a care worht $20.000 you pay $2000 in GST...if the car costs $85.000 you pay $8.500....

there is nothing stopping a poor person paying $85.000 for a car

.....its just very unlikely...a rich person is more likely to buy a new car every couple of years...not so much a poor person .. so who in the long run is paying the most GST..

if you smoke and drink then thats your choice they are not MUST HAVES...

but I know lots of so called poor people who do both and dont flinch at the cost...

Yes, but that truly WAS excessive taxation.

All WE want is for the bastards to pay their share, no more than that.

And I think you'll find there are plenty of things stopping poor people from buying $80K cars.

A rich person may well put $2 Million in investments and pay $0 GST. How many poor people around that can do that ?

Back to top

IP Logged

Kytro

Gold Member

Offline

Blasphemy: a victimless
crime

Posts: 3409
Adelaide
Gender: male

Re: GST hike to hit poor hard and leave rich unscathed
Reply #27 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 9:31am

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 9:02am:

Stratos wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 7:03am:

Cods, it's more that the poorer you are, the more percentage of money you spend just in general, with very little money ending up in the bank after you've bought necessities.

The rich contribute far more with GST than the poor, the rich buy more expensive products which probably exceed what the poor pay in a year with a single purchase.

This percentage stuff is bullshit,the poor do not contribute anywhere near the taxes of the wealthy.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the impact the tax will haven on people.

Back to top

IP Logged

Sir lastnail

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 30094
Gender: male

Re: GST hike to hit poor hard and leave rich unscathed
Reply #28 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 10:12am

cods wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:56am:

they never explain how they arrive at these figures....

how can they possibly know???

there is

NO GST ON FRESH FOOD....

how can they possibly come up with those stats...it doesnt make any sense at all.. those figures sound as if the poor people spend on expensive and the rich on cheap...

I dont thin k so...I am sure a rich person has much more expensive items [toys] than I would ever have...cars.boats.houses.holidays.wardrobe. gadgets I am sure its the rich who fill FIRST CLASS..all of which have GST on them.

maybe I have it all wrong..

and my house is full of all the latest must haves????

why do you continue to defend those fricken thieves in Canberra ??

What about negative gearing, capital gains tax concessions and family trusts ??

Turnball claims to want a fairer tax system but won't talk about the elephant in the room !!

Back to top

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

IP Logged

cods

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 88048

Re: GST hike to hit poor hard and leave rich unscathed
Reply #29 - Nov 5^th, 2015 at 10:20am

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 10:12am:

cods wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 6:56am:

they never explain how they arrive at these figures....

how can they possibly know???

there is

NO GST ON FRESH FOOD....

how can they possibly come up with those stats...it doesnt make any sense at all.. those figures sound as if the poor people spend on expensive and the rich on cheap...

I dont thin k so...I am sure a rich person has much more expensive items [toys] than I would ever have...cars.boats.houses.holidays.wardrobe. gadgets I am sure its the rich who fill FIRST CLASS..all of which have GST on them.

maybe I have it all wrong..

and my house is full of all the latest must haves????

why do you continue to defend those fricken thieves in Canberra ??

What about negative gearing, capital gains tax concessions and family trusts ??

Turnball claims to want a fairer tax system but won't talk about the elephant in the room !!

here we go again. you attack everything that makes MONEY because you havent any...you are over the moon talking about depression and the housing market falling.. it really pouts a smile on your sour dial..

I have never read anyone so bitter about anyone making money...its all as if you have been stopped from ever doing that.... Roll Eyes

you remind me of someone who pissed his money up against the wall all his life then whinges constantly when hes ended up living from week to week hand to mouth whilst watching others go on trips abroad....

so jealous of anyone who spent their money wisely its all bad make them PAY... Angry

Back to top

IP Logged