aquascoot wrote on Nov 10^th, 2015 at 5:49am:

aquascoot wrote on Nov 10^th, 2015 at 5:49am:


Ironically, the other side of that coin is far more parallel with how we do "fair" presently...

The Black Caviars of the world get fetted to excess. Meanwhile, the slower lot get less and less of the necessities of life so they will only ever be average, despite any and all effort they might put in.

The ol' horse analogy cuts both ways.

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 10^th, 2015 at 6:23am:


So, the more you try, the more you get...seems fair.

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 10^th, 2015 at 6:48am:


There are more ways to measure success than money.
i'd be willing to bet that she didnt complain very much and that she had a giving and contributing mentality.
So , when she affirms that she was successful , she is affirming the truth.

But what i dont see as true is this widespread belief amongst the poor that successful people dont want others to succeed. Excuse me , but this is frankly BS.
Most successful people want everyone to be successful.
Most black caviars dont run around all day kicking the asses of the slower horses.
But it is very disappointing when you are successful , and you genuinely try to help people get a leg up and they fail (again due to laziness usually) and then they rationalise it (as humans always do) and call the guy who tried to help them a prick.


Ask any successful person and i'll bet they have stories of family, friends, neighbours or randoms that they tried to help , who squandered the opportunity and turned it all around and bit the hand that fed them
again, this is just human nature at work.
It leads to successful people shutting down eventually and not really bothering.

if we look at someone like, say, a twiggy forrest , who really has put a lot of effort into helping aboriginals get a leg up, i'll bet that there are numerous cases of people who dropped out (through laziness) and then rationalised it as


twiggy is a prick
he used me
he wanted to keep me down
cry baby story.

result...a lose /lose.

i'll bet if twiggy got 1000 veitnamese boat arrivals and gave them high paying jobs and scholarships there would be a very different reaction.

people with entrenched success barriers are "lost".
you can see it in their eyes.
i could try to help many extreme lefties but , in the end, it would come to nought .
If i found someone like your friend who worked twice as hard i would reward her with lurks and perks   that were way above and beyond.
successful people love helping others be successful and have a great sense of social justice. I'll bet thats where twiggy is coming from too. from a higher place, from a place of contribution 

you are too cynical pharm

Kytro wrote on Nov 10^th, 2015 at 7:52am:


The motivation to work IS manifold - although I am guess few on this forum have much motivation to work!  Money is the prime motivator until such time as we are secure and can let our other motivators take the lead. For some it is an absolute fascination with the job they do. My husband is an engineer. He LIVES to build, to design and to find new ways of doing old things. He could take early retirement now if he wanted to - but he doesn't want to. He loves his job and the ability to do it without needing the money motivates him even more. Some are motivated by compassion for others. Bill Gates works hard - for other people. Ironically, a man who has given away $35B has seen his wealth INCREASE during that time by slightly more. He literally cannot give it away fast enough!

In short, the motivations for work, for starting a business and doing the extra bits is often money primarily and for many there are other very powerful reasons as well. I could have retired 20 years ago - but didn't. I didn't want to. And now, I am exploring avenues of work to do part-time.

Thanks for a well-considered debate. It is a rarity on here.

it_is_the_light wrote on Nov 10^th, 2015 at 8:12am:



Only to a dope like you is giving away $35B for a $10B tax refund 'good business'.

aquascoot wrote on Nov 10^th, 2015 at 5:49am:


While some political theories push for this, it's not the point. The point is reducing inequality.

And it's not me saying this, it's the G20, the IMF, the World Bank, and a host of institutions and global forums. The growing divide between rich and poor is a major issue globally right now, second perhaps to climate change.

The two issues, however, are interrelated. The rich and the poor produce more carbon emissions than those in between. Countries with large urban middle classes produce less CO2 than ones that don't.

Poor rural people clear rainforests and burn firewood. The rich have multiple homes and use more energy.

The middle-classes live in high density dwellings and have less kids. Cities are far more sustainable than either rural poverty or the lifestyles of the rich and famous. Energy and transport is more concentrated and efficient. Societies that cultivate their middle class produce far less CO2 emissions than ones that don't.

Reducing social inequality is not only good for economies, it's good for the environment.