Australian Politics Forum - Atheists open churches around the world

Stratos

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #105 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:32am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 7:40am:

How do we know it was not faked? The evidence does not prove otherwise

What standard of evidence would you accept Maria then?

I have said repeatedly, one contemporary piece of writing of archaeological find is all it will take. You know my standard, and I think you're just getting upset that many people fit this criteria, but Jesus does not. No need to get upset, just provide the evidence

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139595 Gender:	Re: Atheists open churches around the world Reply #106 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:34am athos wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:05am: I personally experience evidence of God's existence every day. Can you define 'God'?
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Kytro

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #107 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 9:19am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:28am:

Kytro wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:11am:

He Man wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 2:41pm:

If a God exists you would see his handy work everywhere evidenced in creation and its complexity and evolution. To you this comes from where exactly ?

Effectively if the universe didn't work like this it wouldn't be here if a similar form, so it doesn't actually much matter how complex it is because we don't have another universe to compare it to.

Bit of a cop-out though, isn't it?

Not really. Like I said if it were not this way it we wouldn't be having this conversation. It might feel unsatisfactory, but all adding God does is kick the can down the road so to speak.

"The universe just exists" is no less or more reasonable than "God just exists". Assuming a supernatural entity just adds complexity.

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mariacostel

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #108 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 9:28am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:28am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 6:35am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 7:28pm:

He Man wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 3:50pm:

I understand you perfectly. You are saying there is no evidence according to your paradigm because that suits you. Your paradigm. Just like I said my hypothesis that a God created a Big Bang gives me a creator yours does not. Evidence of an intelligent creator would be intelligent life and complexity, which I have. In your case you end up with a theory. Trying to explain everything that is perfectly explainable in mine.

You are free to believe what you want but you have no case whatsoever to talk down to others at all. Nor tell them that there is no god. Only that is your opinion.

Not my fault iof you're a smacking idiot. Intelligent life on this planet is explained just as easily by evolutionary processes. And we have a shitload more evidence for those.

Really? Do the math. From single celled organism to fully sentient human life is about a million evolutionary steps. Each of these steps has a probability of occurring of about one in a hundred trillion. So the possibility of use having evolved is about a hundred million trillion to one.

And I am being generous.

Whilst that may be the case, think about the time scales and the generations of organisms involved. People have a very small chance of winning the lottery on their own, but get a large enough group, the chances that one of those group win are a lot better.

The chances of tonight's powerball is 1 in 64million or so. this is 1 in 100000000000000000000

It is a huge difference - even over the time scale.

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mariacostel

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #109 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 9:31am

Stratos wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:32am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 7:40am:

How do we know it was not faked? The evidence does not prove otherwise

What standard of evidence would you accept Maria then?

I have said repeatedly, one contemporary piece of writing of archaeological find is all it will take. You know my standard, and I think you're just getting upset that many people fit this criteria, but Jesus does not. No need to get upset, just provide the evidence

My standard of evidence is irrefutable proof. You have provided absolutely none. Archaeology can be (and has been) faked or misidentified. Yu have provided no reputable eye-witness accounts and by your own admission, a historian's writings are worthless unless he was there. All you have provided is a handful of 5th-hand comments and unprovable archaeology.

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Atheists open churches around the world Reply #110 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 9:33am mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 9:31am: My standard of evidence is irrefutable proof. Lol, and you are a Christian?
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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #111 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 9:45am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 9:28am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:28am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 6:35am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 7:28pm:

He Man wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 3:50pm:

I understand you perfectly. You are saying there is no evidence according to your paradigm because that suits you. Your paradigm. Just like I said my hypothesis that a God created a Big Bang gives me a creator yours does not. Evidence of an intelligent creator would be intelligent life and complexity, which I have. In your case you end up with a theory. Trying to explain everything that is perfectly explainable in mine.

You are free to believe what you want but you have no case whatsoever to talk down to others at all. Nor tell them that there is no god. Only that is your opinion.

Not my fault iof you're a smacking idiot. Intelligent life on this planet is explained just as easily by evolutionary processes. And we have a shitload more evidence for those.

Really? Do the math. From single celled organism to fully sentient human life is about a million evolutionary steps. Each of these steps has a probability of occurring of about one in a hundred trillion. So the possibility of use having evolved is about a hundred million trillion to one.

And I am being generous.

Whilst that may be the case, think about the time scales and the generations of organisms involved. People have a very small chance of winning the lottery on their own, but get a large enough group, the chances that one of those group win are a lot better.

The chances of tonight's powerball is 1 in 64million or so. this is 1 in 100000000000000000000

It is a huge difference - even over the time scale.

This explains the problem better than i can

http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/can_probability_theory_be_used_to_refute_evolution_part_one/

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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mariacostel Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7344 Sydney Gender:	Re: Atheists open churches around the world Reply #112 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 10:57am Stratos wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 9:33am: mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 9:31am: My standard of evidence is irrefutable proof. Lol, and you are a Christian? It's your standard. I am just returning the favour.
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mariacostel

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #113 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 11:04am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 9:45am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 9:28am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:28am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 6:35am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 7:28pm:

He Man wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 3:50pm:

I understand you perfectly. You are saying there is no evidence according to your paradigm because that suits you. Your paradigm. Just like I said my hypothesis that a God created a Big Bang gives me a creator yours does not. Evidence of an intelligent creator would be intelligent life and complexity, which I have. In your case you end up with a theory. Trying to explain everything that is perfectly explainable in mine.

You are free to believe what you want but you have no case whatsoever to talk down to others at all. Nor tell them that there is no god. Only that is your opinion.

Not my fault iof you're a smacking idiot. Intelligent life on this planet is explained just as easily by evolutionary processes. And we have a shitload more evidence for those.

Really? Do the math. From single celled organism to fully sentient human life is about a million evolutionary steps. Each of these steps has a probability of occurring of about one in a hundred trillion. So the possibility of use having evolved is about a hundred million trillion to one.

And I am being generous.

Whilst that may be the case, think about the time scales and the generations of organisms involved. People have a very small chance of winning the lottery on their own, but get a large enough group, the chances that one of those group win are a lot better.

The chances of tonight's powerball is 1 in 64million or so. this is 1 in 100000000000000000000

It is a huge difference - even over the time scale.

This explains the problem better than i can

http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/can_probability_theory_be_used_to_refute_evolution_part_one/

Thanks for that. I have to say though, his counter-argument is quite lame. He claims to be a mathematician, but doesn't even try to refute the enormously improbable nature of the human evolution question. And that is before we even factor into place that evolutionary change is essentially random and there is no guarantee that a 'change' would be part of an improvement. This is the killing factor - the idea that without any form of template for design that massively complex machines (ie us) simply evolved without anything or anyone guiding it. The probability then simply adds a few hundred more zeros onto the end of it.

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« Last Edit: Nov 12^th, 2015 at 11:51am by mariacostel »

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Stratos

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #114 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 11:05am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 10:57am:

It's your standard. I am just returning the favour.

Sigh, more false witness? Really? if you don't know what standard of proof I've asked for, you must be either the only one in the thread, or have missed a lot of my posts.

Stratos wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:32am:

I have said repeatedly, one contemporary piece of writing of archaeological find is all it will take.

Here is one, there are many more. Please stop lying about my position, it makes your already weak argument look even more desperate.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #115 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 11:13am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 6:35am:

Really? Do the math. From single celled organism to fully sentient human life is about a million evolutionary steps. Each of these steps has a probability of occurring of about one in a hundred trillion. So the possibility of use having evolved is about a hundred million trillion to one.

And I am being generous.

Wow. So Longy is a Evolution denier as well. With Ajax being a Moon landing hoaxer I guess it explains a lot about the AGW deniers. They all have no idea about science.

Longy, your logic is completely flawed.
The process of natural selection dictates that evolutionary changes that are advantageous will continue to the next generation. Those that are not will die out. Natural selection over millions of years makes it inevitable that more complex and successful life forms will develop.

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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.

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Kytro

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #116 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 11:15am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 9:31am:

My standard of evidence is irrefutable proof. You have provided absolutely none. Archaeology can be (and has been) faked or misidentified. Yu have provided no reputable eye-witness accounts and by your own admission, a historian's writings are worthless unless he was there. All you have provided is a handful of 5th-hand comments and unprovable archaeology.

This is an impossible standard, science can only discount things, it cannot prove them.

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mariacostel

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #117 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 11:52am

Stratos wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 11:05am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 10:57am:

It's your standard. I am just returning the favour.

Sigh, more false witness? Really? if you don't know what standard of proof I've asked for, you must be either the only one in the thread, or have missed a lot of my posts.

Stratos wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:32am:

I have said repeatedly, one contemporary piece of writing of archaeological find is all it will take.

Here is one, there are many more. Please stop lying about my position, it makes your already weak argument look even more desperate.

I am using your methodology. You look for any possible weakness and use it to completely refute the evidence. I am returning the favour.

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mariacostel

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #118 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 11:56am

Kytro wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 11:15am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 9:31am:

My standard of evidence is irrefutable proof. You have provided absolutely none. Archaeology can be (and has been) faked or misidentified. Yu have provided no reputable eye-witness accounts and by your own admission, a historian's writings are worthless unless he was there. All you have provided is a handful of 5th-hand comments and unprovable archaeology.

This is an impossible standard, science can only discount things, it cannot prove them.

Of course it is. I know that as well. What I object to is the complete rejection of any evidence that isn't overwhelming or irrefutable. Most complex arguments are weighed by a multitude of evidence of different sources and provability. We consider DNA evidence irrefutable and yet, it is just a probability argument, but one that is so high as to be considered 'close enough'.

I would enjoy a Christian apologetics debate but the ground-rules have to accept evidence of a variety of sources and provability. After all, most historical claims can only be supported by a variety of evidence, none of which is irrefutable.

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Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 85381 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: Atheists open churches around the world Reply #119 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 11:57am I didn't know atheists had churches..... just saying...
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