Australian Politics Forum - Atheists open churches around the world

Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #180 - Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:02am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 7:05am:

PS stereoscopic vision isnt' easier' with two eyes. It is IMPOSSIBLE without. How would anyone determine stereoscopic vision was even better without knowing what it is - and it had to be done without any thought.

Well my assumption would be that at some point an organism with one eye/light spot had a generation which due to a mutation or several mutations gained two eyes. This then conferred better ability to determine food sources, which then confers better survival.

But I repeat can you explain the recurrent laryngeal nerve maria. Let me explain. The recurrent laryngeal nerve branches from the vagus nerve to control intrinsic muscles of the larynx. However it takes a convoluted pathway under the aortic arch up to the larynx. In giraffes it can be several metres long.

How does an intelligent creator account for this?

Evolution accounts for it beautifully in that in fish and our fishy ancestors the gills were behind the heart in comparison to the body so the laryngeal nerve could take a straight pathway, but as the gills/lungs moved to the front and in a different position, it was "easier" for the laryngeal nerve to lengthen and follow the lungs rather than forge a new pathway [/quote]

You use the word 'mutation' so easily. So imagine one person grew a second eye as the result of a mutation like the Elephant Man type. Now this one person breeds and gives birth to... a normal person with one eye. Mutations in a single organism are not passed on except in exceptional circumstances. It also does not account for why we still don't have singe-eyes species of humans.

You are ignoring all the facts of genetics and presuming way too much. [/quote]

All the facts? I studied genetics for years. Germ-line mutations are passed on from generation to generation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmetry_in_biology.

Again, though can you explain the recurrent laryngeal nerve.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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mariacostel

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #181 - Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:35am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 8:58am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 8:56am:

Stratos wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 8:49am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 8:38am:

You wont believe the Apostle John was an eyewitness

Until demonstrated otherwise yes. It's commonly accepted that John didn't write it, and nowhere within the text does it indicate a specific author. This is why there is an ongoing debate as to who the author was supposed to be. I'm open to it if you can demonstrate it, but until otherwise I'll believe what we find in the book itself, that it was anonymous(keep in mind as always the title were added far later to the gospels, well after they were written).

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 8:38am:

but you will believe this garbage?

Why do you find it hard to believe that positive traits will be passed on while negative ones won't? You can see this in pretty much every species that exists in multiple climates.

Look at your one eyed example again. Why would you expect a one eyed trait to be favourable over a two eyed trait, and therefore get passed on to successive generations? There are clear benefits to having two eyes, as it allows for depth perception and a greater field of vision. One eyed animals would have a far smaller chance of thriving as it would be harder to do pretty much everything, from finding food to defending itself from predators, therefore the genetic material relating to having one eye would be unlikely to be passed on.

As determined by who? How does a dumb animal know that two is better than one - especially when there has never been a two-eyed species before? Why have we not developed an eye in the back of our heads? That would be positive as well.

All of the natural selection depends on somehow, somewhere 'improvements' appearing randomly and the rest of the species dying off or inheriting this new improvement. It stretches the meaning of the word 'ludicrous'.

An animal won't know that two eyes are better than one. And I have to admit having an eye in the back of the head would make more sense. That would make it closer to the occipital lobe, rather than the eyes being on completely the opposite side of the head, which would make sense if an intelligent creator did the job.

So why hasn't natural selection delivered a third eye? It has had a few million years to get started on it. And where is the single-eyed predecessor's remains?

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #182 - Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:37am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:35am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 8:58am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 8:56am:

Stratos wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 8:49am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 8:38am:

You wont believe the Apostle John was an eyewitness

Until demonstrated otherwise yes. It's commonly accepted that John didn't write it, and nowhere within the text does it indicate a specific author. This is why there is an ongoing debate as to who the author was supposed to be. I'm open to it if you can demonstrate it, but until otherwise I'll believe what we find in the book itself, that it was anonymous(keep in mind as always the title were added far later to the gospels, well after they were written).

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 8:38am:

but you will believe this garbage?

Why do you find it hard to believe that positive traits will be passed on while negative ones won't? You can see this in pretty much every species that exists in multiple climates.

Look at your one eyed example again. Why would you expect a one eyed trait to be favourable over a two eyed trait, and therefore get passed on to successive generations? There are clear benefits to having two eyes, as it allows for depth perception and a greater field of vision. One eyed animals would have a far smaller chance of thriving as it would be harder to do pretty much everything, from finding food to defending itself from predators, therefore the genetic material relating to having one eye would be unlikely to be passed on.

As determined by who? How does a dumb animal know that two is better than one - especially when there has never been a two-eyed species before? Why have we not developed an eye in the back of our heads? That would be positive as well.

All of the natural selection depends on somehow, somewhere 'improvements' appearing randomly and the rest of the species dying off or inheriting this new improvement. It stretches the meaning of the word 'ludicrous'.

An animal won't know that two eyes are better than one. And I have to admit having an eye in the back of the head would make more sense. That would make it closer to the occipital lobe, rather than the eyes being on completely the opposite side of the head, which would make sense if an intelligent creator did the job.

So why hasn't natural selection delivered a third eye? It has had a few million years to get started on it. And where is the single-eyed predecessor's remains?

it has. It's called a brown eye and it's in your arse Cheesy

LOL

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Atheists open churches around the world Reply #183 - Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:43am It hasn't because few, if any, people would reproduce with someone who had an eye in the back of their head.
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Stratos

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #184 - Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:46am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:35am:

And where is the single-eyed predecessor's remains?

Two eyed organisms date from the Cambrian Explosion. Before that we really don't have many fossils.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:35am:

So why hasn't natural selection delivered a third eye?

In many species it has, mostly I think (been awhile) in reptiles.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Setanta

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #185 - Nov 13^th, 2015 at 10:29am

Stratos wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:46am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:35am:

And where is the single-eyed predecessor's remains?

Two eyed organisms date from the Cambrian Explosion. Before that we really don't have many fossils.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:35am:

So why hasn't natural selection delivered a third eye?

In many species it has, mostly I think (been awhile) in reptiles.

Pit vipers? Four eyes.

What I think is funny is that Maria would use "virtually all historians would say that a historical Jesus existed" as an argument, then argue that evolution is a lie even though virtually all biologists would say it's a fact.

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #186 - Nov 13^th, 2015 at 10:44am

Setanta wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 10:29am:

Stratos wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:46am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:35am:

And where is the single-eyed predecessor's remains?

Two eyed organisms date from the Cambrian Explosion. Before that we really don't have many fossils.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:35am:

So why hasn't natural selection delivered a third eye?

In many species it has, mostly I think (been awhile) in reptiles.

Pit vipers? Four eyes.

What I think is funny is that Maria would use "virtually all historians would say that a historical Jesus existed" as an argument, then argue that evolution is a lie even though virtually all biologists would say it's a fact.

Indeed, I'm waiting for the evolution is theory line.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Stratos

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #187 - Nov 13^th, 2015 at 10:46am

Setanta wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 10:29am:

What I think is funny is that Maria would use "virtually all historians would say that a historical Jesus existed" as an argument, then argue that evolution is a lie even though virtually all biologists would say it's a fact.

I did think that too. The thing is, I acknowledge that most historians think there was a historical Jesus, but that doesn't change the fact that there aren't any eyewitness accounts of Jesus.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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mariacostel

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #188 - Nov 13^th, 2015 at 10:49am

Stratos wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:46am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:35am:

And where is the single-eyed predecessor's remains?

Two eyed organisms date from the Cambrian Explosion. Before that we really don't have many fossils.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:35am:

So why hasn't natural selection delivered a third eye?

In many species it has, mostly I think (been awhile) in reptiles.

But you are happy to believe there were once one-eyed species without any evidence whatsoever?

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #189 - Nov 13^th, 2015 at 10:51am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 10:49am:

Stratos wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:46am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:35am:

And where is the single-eyed predecessor's remains?

Two eyed organisms date from the Cambrian Explosion. Before that we really don't have many fossils.

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 9:35am:

So why hasn't natural selection delivered a third eye?

In many species it has, mostly I think (been awhile) in reptiles.

But you are happy to believe there were once one-eyed species without any evidence whatsoever?

http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/selection/eye/

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Atheists open churches around the world Reply #190 - Nov 13^th, 2015 at 10:55am mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 10:49am: But you are happy to believe there were once one-eyed species without any evidence whatsoever? Where did I say that?
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Kytro Gold Member Offline Blasphemy: a victimless crime Posts: 3409 Adelaide Gender:	Re: Atheists open churches around the world Reply #191 - Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:41am mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 10:49am: But you are happy to believe there were once one-eyed species without any evidence whatsoever? No need for that, there is a species of copepods that has one eye, as well as a single-celled organism that has a light-sensitive patch (kind of a proto-eye)
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mariacostel

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #192 - Nov 14^th, 2015 at 1:02pm

Kytro wrote on Nov 14^th, 2015 at 8:41am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 13^th, 2015 at 10:49am:

But you are happy to believe there were once one-eyed species without any evidence whatsoever?

No need for that, there is a species of copepods that has one eye, as well as a single-celled organism that has a light-sensitive patch (kind of a proto-eye)

The point I was getting to was to identify a species that started with one eye and 'decided' that stereoscopic vision was the go and so 'decided' to grow another eye... and the brain development to process multiple video signals etc.

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