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Atheists open churches around the world (Read 8168 times)
Raven
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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #45 - Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:35pm
 
Let's assume there is a god. (We'll use the Christian one since it's the predominate religion in Australia.)

Homo Sapiens have been around for about 100,000 years. for 98,000 years people in the world live a harsh existence in insufferable cruelty. Invaded by enemies, horrific death tolls violence an everyday occurrence.

For 98,000 years Heaven watches with complete indifference and then 2,000 years ago says enough is enough. We need to save these poor bastards.

How though?

Oh of course human sacrifice. Lets horrifically torture, mutilate and kill a man to cleanse the sins of humanity.

In what universe does this make sense? Who'd want to follow a god that acts like that?

What is the more believable scenario?

That the universe and everything in it was created through random chance over billions of years and we are the product of an ever changing environment that did not require a 'guiding' hand.

Or

You can live forever if you telepathically tell an invisible man living in the sky that you accept him as your master so he can remove a stain on your soul present since before you were born because a woman made from a man's rib had the nerve to become knowledgeable after a talking snake told her to eat a piece of fruit. 

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.
 
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He Man
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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #46 - Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:38pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:11pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:08pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:06pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:05pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:02pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:01pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:57pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:41pm:
Stratos wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:34pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:18pm:
Atheists have their belief/religion others have theirs.


Atheists have a lack of belief.  If you think that makes it a belief then sure I guess.

He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:17pm:
So for you to definitely say there is no evidence that a god exists is exactly what I am talking about and bullshit.


OK fine then , give me your best evidence and why it necessitates a deity and we can see if it really is a reason to believe in a deity or not.




If a God exists you would see his handy work everywhere evidenced in creation and its complexity and evolution. To you this comes from where exactly ?




A complex interplay of subatomic particles.



That came from ?



We don't know. More accurate answer than God.



Nice religion you are free to your belief.



How is this a belief. Its a statement of fact. We have no evidence either way to describe the state of existence before the Big Bang.


Your belief a God was not responsible for it is a belief, your facts do not disprove a god at all.


No I was saying that saying that we just don't know is a more accurate answer than saying God. That doesnt mean God isn't responsible. I'm saying that we have no evidence to make anything other than a wild assed guess as to what was responsible.

Saying a flying spaghetti monster did it, or God, or Allah or my penis started it are all equally valid answers.


Incorrect, Saying a God created it is totally valid as opposed to making out you have no evidence that a God could have created the first atoms needed. The fact you put dick and god in the same sentence and then the attempted the useless mundane atheistic spaghetti monster rant shows your arrogance.

There is no shame the belief in a theory that a God did not create its just like there is no shame in a belief that a God did create it.

But to think you are any better or more justified than others is a fallacy. Only in your own minds paradigm is that the case and closed minded to force it onto others.
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Prime Minister for Canyons
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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #47 - Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:40pm
 
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:38pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:11pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:08pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:06pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:05pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:02pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:01pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:57pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:41pm:
Stratos wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:34pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:18pm:
Atheists have their belief/religion others have theirs.


Atheists have a lack of belief.  If you think that makes it a belief then sure I guess.

He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:17pm:
So for you to definitely say there is no evidence that a god exists is exactly what I am talking about and bullshit.


OK fine then , give me your best evidence and why it necessitates a deity and we can see if it really is a reason to believe in a deity or not.




If a God exists you would see his handy work everywhere evidenced in creation and its complexity and evolution. To you this comes from where exactly ?




A complex interplay of subatomic particles.



That came from ?



We don't know. More accurate answer than God.



Nice religion you are free to your belief.



How is this a belief. Its a statement of fact. We have no evidence either way to describe the state of existence before the Big Bang.


Your belief a God was not responsible for it is a belief, your facts do not disprove a god at all.


No I was saying that saying that we just don't know is a more accurate answer than saying God. That doesnt mean God isn't responsible. I'm saying that we have no evidence to make anything other than a wild assed guess as to what was responsible.

Saying a flying spaghetti monster did it, or God, or Allah or my penis started it are all equally valid answers.


Incorrect, Saying a God created it is totally valid as opposed to making out you have no evidence that a God could have created the first atoms needed. The fact you put dick and god in the same sentence and then the attempted the useless mundane atheistic spaghetti monster rant shows your arrogance.

There is no shame the belief in a theory that a God did not create its just like there is no shame in a belief that a God did create it.

But to think you are any better or more justified than others is a fallacy. Only in your own minds paradigm is that the case and closed minded to force it onto others.






Again you misunderstand. I'm saying theres no evidence period. This means that any hypothesis about the state of the universe before the Big Bang is equally valid. Explain to me how this means I have the closed mind.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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He Man
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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #48 - Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:45pm
 
Raven wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:35pm:
Let's assume there is a god. (We'll use the Christian one since it's the predominate religion in Australia.)

Homo Sapiens have been around for about 100,000 years. for 98,000 years people in the world live a harsh existence in insufferable cruelty. Invaded by enemies, horrific death tolls violence an everyday occurrence.

For 98,000 years Heaven watches with complete indifference and then 2,000 years ago says enough is enough. We need to save these poor bastards.

How though?

Oh of course human sacrifice. Lets horrifically torture, mutilate and kill a man to cleanse the sins of humanity.

In what universe does this make sense? Who'd want to follow a god that acts like that?

What is the more believable scenario?

That the universe and everything in it was created through random chance over billions of years and we are the product of an ever changing environment that did not require a 'guiding' hand.

Or

You can live forever if you telepathically tell an invisible man living in the sky that you accept him as your master so he can remove a stain on your soul present since before you were born because a woman made from a man's rib had the nerve to become knowledgeable after a talking snake told her to eat a piece of fruit. 

 



Nice sook but you lack serious knowledge, have a google there are plenty of sites that can answer that question. You seem to want god to take away your free will as an excuse for humans not to act like turds. Then when you reap what you sow you blame it on God. From the beginning the wages of sin was death, set by god. Us twats chose to sin hence one day we will die. Eternal death for our arrogance and sin is separation from God before we get there we need to physically die. God loved us so much he sent his only son to die for you and me and then go on to pay that price. In know its big and scarey that all you have to do is believe in Jesus Christ for eternal life , my goodness what an asshole eh?


If you want to talk about eternal redemption do a little study first before spewing a rant on a message board about something you know nothing about.
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He Man
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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #49 - Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:50pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:40pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:38pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:11pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:08pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:06pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:05pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:02pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:01pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:57pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:41pm:
Stratos wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:34pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:18pm:
Atheists have their belief/religion others have theirs.


Atheists have a lack of belief.  If you think that makes it a belief then sure I guess.

He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:17pm:
So for you to definitely say there is no evidence that a god exists is exactly what I am talking about and bullshit.


OK fine then , give me your best evidence and why it necessitates a deity and we can see if it really is a reason to believe in a deity or not.




If a God exists you would see his handy work everywhere evidenced in creation and its complexity and evolution. To you this comes from where exactly ?




A complex interplay of subatomic particles.



That came from ?



We don't know. More accurate answer than God.



Nice religion you are free to your belief.



How is this a belief. Its a statement of fact. We have no evidence either way to describe the state of existence before the Big Bang.


Your belief a God was not responsible for it is a belief, your facts do not disprove a god at all.


No I was saying that saying that we just don't know is a more accurate answer than saying God. That doesnt mean God isn't responsible. I'm saying that we have no evidence to make anything other than a wild assed guess as to what was responsible.

Saying a flying spaghetti monster did it, or God, or Allah or my penis started it are all equally valid answers.


Incorrect, Saying a God created it is totally valid as opposed to making out you have no evidence that a God could have created the first atoms needed. The fact you put dick and god in the same sentence and then the attempted the useless mundane atheistic spaghetti monster rant shows your arrogance.

There is no shame the belief in a theory that a God did not create its just like there is no shame in a belief that a God did create it.

But to think you are any better or more justified than others is a fallacy. Only in your own minds paradigm is that the case and closed minded to force it onto others.






Again you misunderstand. I'm saying theres no evidence period. This means that any hypothesis about the state of the universe before the Big Bang is equally valid. Explain to me how this means I have the closed mind.


I understand you perfectly. You are saying there is no evidence according to your paradigm because that suits you. Your paradigm. Just like I said my hypothesis that a God created a Big Bang gives me a creator yours does not. Evidence of an intelligent creator would be intelligent life and complexity, which I have. In your case you end up with a theory. Trying to explain everything that is perfectly explainable in mine.

You are free to believe what you want but you have no case whatsoever to talk down to others at all. Nor tell them that there is no god. Only that is your opinion.
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Stratos
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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #50 - Nov 11th, 2015 at 4:09pm
 
That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.  Which is why God (or anything) is a poor argument for the questions "what came before the big bang".  Nobody knows.  Maybe it was God.  Maybe it was Bojack's Penis. 

Both statement are provided without evidence to substantiate their various claims.  If you lack knowledge in a particular area, then the correct answer is "I don't know", not God/Allah/Vishnu did it when there is nothing to suggest otherwise.

He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:45pm:
From the beginning the wages of sin was death, set by god.


Read Genesis.  The truly scary thing reading it in hindsight was that the Adam and Eve fable's moral is to not learn.  Man was punished forever, for wanting to learn more.  What a perfect set up for thousands of years of theocratic punishment of learning and discoveries that didn't fit to theocratic dogma.
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Stratos
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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #51 - Nov 11th, 2015 at 4:11pm
 
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:01pm:
Stratos wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:55pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:41pm:
To you this comes from where exactly ?


Biological processes.

NEXT!


What was the first biological process that started it all then ?

NEXT!


I don't know.  Prove it was God like you are implying
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Raven
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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #52 - Nov 11th, 2015 at 4:18pm
 
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:45pm:
Raven wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:35pm:
Let's assume there is a god. (We'll use the Christian one since it's the predominate religion in Australia.)

Homo Sapiens have been around for about 100,000 years. for 98,000 years people in the world live a harsh existence in insufferable cruelty. Invaded by enemies, horrific death tolls violence an everyday occurrence.

For 98,000 years Heaven watches with complete indifference and then 2,000 years ago says enough is enough. We need to save these poor bastards.

How though?

Oh of course human sacrifice. Lets horrifically torture, mutilate and kill a man to cleanse the sins of humanity.

In what universe does this make sense? Who'd want to follow a god that acts like that?

What is the more believable scenario?

That the universe and everything in it was created through random chance over billions of years and we are the product of an ever changing environment that did not require a 'guiding' hand.

Or

You can live forever if you telepathically tell an invisible man living in the sky that you accept him as your master so he can remove a stain on your soul present since before you were born because a woman made from a man's rib had the nerve to become knowledgeable after a talking snake told her to eat a piece of fruit. 

 



Nice sook but you lack serious knowledge, have a google there are plenty of sites that can answer that question. You seem to want god to take away your free will as an excuse for humans not to act like turds. Then when you reap what you sow you blame it on God. From the beginning the wages of sin was death, set by god. Us twats chose to sin hence one day we will die. Eternal death for our arrogance and sin is separation from God before we get there we need to physically die. God loved us so much he sent his only son to die for you and me and then go on to pay that price. In know its big and scarey that all you have to do is believe in Jesus Christ for eternal life , my goodness what an asshole eh?


If you want to talk about eternal redemption do a little study first before spewing a rant on a message board about something you know nothing about.



Alright then. So in the beginning God created Adam and Eve in a paradise called the Garden of Eden. One day Eve, the woman, eats from the tree of knowledge thereby giving us original sin, a stain that is to mar the souls of humanity for eternity. All because of a little knowledge.

Lets fast forward to the Nazarene. Born of an immaculate conception it was his destiny to be tortured and killed to wash away our sins, luckily he rose three days later. A story so like the Egyptian god Horus it's a wonder he was never sued for copyright infringement.

But the idea that a human sacrifice can magically wash away your sins is both ridiculous and dangerous.

You do not truly accept responsibility for your actions by thinking "oh it's alright I confessed my sins and accepted Jesus into my heart so my sins are clean" The sins are still there as are any consequences.

A person aware that his sins still follow him acts a greater deterrence against doing wrong then a man who has his washed away every time he commits one.
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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.
 
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He Man
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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #53 - Nov 11th, 2015 at 4:19pm
 
Stratos wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 4:09pm:
That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.  Which is why God (or anything) is a poor argument for the questions "what came before the big bang".  Nobody knows.  Maybe it was God.  Maybe it was Bojack's Penis. 

Both statement are provided without evidence to substantiate their various claims.  If you lack knowledge in a particular area, then the correct answer is "I don't know", not God/Allah/Vishnu did it when there is nothing to suggest otherwise.

He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:45pm:
From the beginning the wages of sin was death, set by god.


Read Genesis.  The truly scary thing reading it in hindsight was that the Adam and Eve fable's moral is to not learn.  Man was punished forever, for wanting to learn more.  What a perfect set up for thousands of years of theocratic punishment of learning and discoveries that didn't fit to theocratic dogma.



So you ignore evidence of  a Gods existence then, essentially the physical manifestation of a spiritual being and only assume evidence in a physical world will prove his existence. Only using mankinds knowledge at one point in time. Yeah that's real bright. Creation cant be made by a god because I have another theory Grin . Cheesy
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He Man
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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #54 - Nov 11th, 2015 at 4:21pm
 
Stratos wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 4:11pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:01pm:
Stratos wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:55pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:41pm:
To you this comes from where exactly ?


Biological processes.

NEXT!


What was the first biological process that started it all then ?

NEXT!


I don't know.  Prove it was God like you are implying


Prove it was a biological process like you are saying it is.

My whole point is you have no right to assume you are any better than the next guy. So suck up your spaghetti monster next time you roll your own biological fairies down the back of the garden out.

NEXT!
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Bobby.
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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #55 - Nov 11th, 2015 at 4:24pm
 
____ wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 9:39am:
So cashing in on charitable tax cuts so to spend it on gaining more followers ... like religionists do?



Sounds like a good idea as long as it's not full of butt slammers
like most of the churches.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #56 - Nov 11th, 2015 at 4:25pm
 
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 4:19pm:
Stratos wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 4:09pm:
That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.  Which is why God (or anything) is a poor argument for the questions "what came before the big bang".  Nobody knows.  Maybe it was God.  Maybe it was Bojack's Penis. 

Both statement are provided without evidence to substantiate their various claims.  If you lack knowledge in a particular area, then the correct answer is "I don't know", not God/Allah/Vishnu did it when there is nothing to suggest otherwise.

He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:45pm:
From the beginning the wages of sin was death, set by god.


Read Genesis.  The truly scary thing reading it in hindsight was that the Adam and Eve fable's moral is to not learn.  Man was punished forever, for wanting to learn more.  What a perfect set up for thousands of years of theocratic punishment of learning and discoveries that didn't fit to theocratic dogma.



So you ignore evidence of  a Gods existence


None exists.

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He Man
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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #57 - Nov 11th, 2015 at 4:27pm
 
Raven wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 4:18pm:
He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:45pm:
Raven wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 3:35pm:
Let's assume there is a god. (We'll use the Christian one since it's the predominate religion in Australia.)

Homo Sapiens have been around for about 100,000 years. for 98,000 years people in the world live a harsh existence in insufferable cruelty. Invaded by enemies, horrific death tolls violence an everyday occurrence.

For 98,000 years Heaven watches with complete indifference and then 2,000 years ago says enough is enough. We need to save these poor bastards.

How though?

Oh of course human sacrifice. Lets horrifically torture, mutilate and kill a man to cleanse the sins of humanity.

In what universe does this make sense? Who'd want to follow a god that acts like that?

What is the more believable scenario?

That the universe and everything in it was created through random chance over billions of years and we are the product of an ever changing environment that did not require a 'guiding' hand.

Or

You can live forever if you telepathically tell an invisible man living in the sky that you accept him as your master so he can remove a stain on your soul present since before you were born because a woman made from a man's rib had the nerve to become knowledgeable after a talking snake told her to eat a piece of fruit. 

 



Nice sook but you lack serious knowledge, have a google there are plenty of sites that can answer that question. You seem to want god to take away your free will as an excuse for humans not to act like turds. Then when you reap what you sow you blame it on God. From the beginning the wages of sin was death, set by god. Us twats chose to sin hence one day we will die. Eternal death for our arrogance and sin is separation from God before we get there we need to physically die. God loved us so much he sent his only son to die for you and me and then go on to pay that price. In know its big and scarey that all you have to do is believe in Jesus Christ for eternal life , my goodness what an asshole eh?


If you want to talk about eternal redemption do a little study first before spewing a rant on a message board about something you know nothing about.



Alright then. So in the beginning God created Adam and Eve in a paradise called the Garden of Eden. One day Eve, the woman, eats from the tree of knowledge thereby giving us original sin, a stain that is to mar the souls of humanity for eternity. All because of a little knowledge.

Lets fast forward to the Nazarene. Born of an immaculate conception it was his destiny to be tortured and killed to wash away our sins, luckily he rose three days later. A story so like the Egyptian god Horus it's a wonder he was never sued for copyright infringement.

But the idea that a human sacrifice can magically wash away your sins is both ridiculous and dangerous.

You do not truly accept responsibility for your actions by thinking "oh it's alright I confessed my sins and accepted Jesus into my heart so my sins are clean" The sins are still there as are any consequences.

A person aware that his sins still follow him acts a greater deterrence against doing wrong then a man who has his washed away every time he commits one.


The knowledge of good and evil not "a little knowledge" the knowledge to screw things up. Before you roll out Horus how about a little evidence of your accusation rather than making out its true. If you are going to mouth it off back it up words are cheap.

You are incorrect regarding the sinner also. You need to understand what the word believe means before using it as an excuse to sinners as you do. Do some study on the word that was used. Look it up in the strongs of amplified version for understanding.

Human sacrifice does not wash away your sins you misunderstand the payment for sin. The wages of sin is death. Spiritual death not physical. In order to pay the spiritual you must get there first must you not. That involves physical death. Google look it up there are heaps of resources out there.
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mariacostel
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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #58 - Nov 11th, 2015 at 4:29pm
 
Stratos wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:38pm:
mariacostel wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 2:31pm:
We've seen your standard of proof expressed before. You don't accept evidence,


Sorry, my standard for evidence isn't:

"Claim of unknown origin made 70 years after the fact = eyewitness statement." Grin

I believe that is your rigorous standard of testimony.


Like I said at the time... you have extinguished pretty much all history prior to 1700

Congrats. You have successfully debated yourself into a corner where you have nowhere to go.
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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #59 - Nov 11th, 2015 at 4:36pm
 
mariacostel wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 4:29pm:
Like I said at the time... you have extinguished pretty much all history prior to 1700


Very incorrect.  In fact I do believe certain characters mentioned in the Bible were real.  There is ACTUAL evidence of Herod,  Pontius Pilate and John the Baptist (less so for him).  None for Jesus though.

Do you still maintain there were many eyewitnesses to Jesus though?  I notice you didn't dispute my claim in your post, or write anything that would support your previous claim?

He Man wrote on Nov 11th, 2015 at 4:21pm:
My whole point is you have no right to assume you are any better than the next guy. So suck up your spaghetti monster next time you roll your own biological fairies down the back of the garden out.


Not really.  I at least say when I don't know something (how abiogenesis occurred in this case) rather than attribute such an action to a deity.
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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