Australian Politics Forum - Atheists open churches around the world

Stratos

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #90 - Nov 11^th, 2015 at 8:58pm

LifeOrDeath wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 8:46pm:

I think the point was you have no platform for ridiculing
others as you can be ridiculed in the same light stratos.

I'm simply saying that before the start of the universe, there is no evidence for anything. It could have been a divine being that got things started, but with the absence of any evidence of any kind, why assume one did this thing?

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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mariacostel

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #91 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 6:31am

mothra wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 6:42pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 6:39pm:

I am using the exact same Stratos argument. I am glad you realise just how lame the argument is. I also notice that you have not attempted to prove the existence of the mythological George Washington and Captain Cook. No irrefutable proof exists.

No. You're really not,

And irrefutable proof exists. You are being preposterous.

Am I? I am using the Stratos Methodology. And I haven't even asked you to prove truly ancient figures like plato etc

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mariacostel

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #92 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 6:33am

Stratos wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 6:52pm:

Maria, a piece of contemporary evidence, written or archaeological exists for all of the people you have mentioned, which is the same criteria I have said repeatedly that will convicne me of Jesus existance.

Using the same criteria I do believe there were other biblical new testament characters such as:

Pontius Pilate: The Pilate Stone (look it up) and various historian's mention of him
Herod: Archaeological evidence (his tomb for example) and various historians accounts

Jesus? : anonymous writings written at the earliest 40 years (for the earliest gospel) and up to 70 years (for the Fourth Gospel), no mention from any contemporary historian.

Of course you believe in THEM. Their existence does not pose an existential question to you. And that is the problem. Jesus' existence and claims are a big problem for you (and most other people as well) and so disproving Him is a major struggle.

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mariacostel

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #93 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 6:35am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 7:28pm:

He Man wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 3:50pm:

I understand you perfectly. You are saying there is no evidence according to your paradigm because that suits you. Your paradigm. Just like I said my hypothesis that a God created a Big Bang gives me a creator yours does not. Evidence of an intelligent creator would be intelligent life and complexity, which I have. In your case you end up with a theory. Trying to explain everything that is perfectly explainable in mine.

You are free to believe what you want but you have no case whatsoever to talk down to others at all. Nor tell them that there is no god. Only that is your opinion.

Not my fault iof you're a smacking idiot. Intelligent life on this planet is explained just as easily by evolutionary processes. And we have a shitload more evidence for those.

Really? Do the math. From single celled organism to fully sentient human life is about a million evolutionary steps. Each of these steps has a probability of occurring of about one in a hundred trillion. So the possibility of use having evolved is about a hundred million trillion to one.

And I am being generous.

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mariacostel

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #94 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 6:37am

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 7:30pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 5:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 4:25pm:

He Man wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 4:19pm:

Stratos wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 4:09pm:

That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Which is why God (or anything) is a poor argument for the questions "what came before the big bang". Nobody knows. Maybe it was God. Maybe it was Bojack's Penis.

Both statement are provided without evidence to substantiate their various claims. If you lack knowledge in a particular area, then the correct answer is "I don't know", not God/Allah/Vishnu did it when there is nothing to suggest otherwise.

He Man wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 3:45pm:

From the beginning the wages of sin was death, set by god.

Read Genesis. The truly scary thing reading it in hindsight was that the Adam and Eve fable's moral is to not learn. Man was punished forever, for wanting to learn more. What a perfect set up for thousands of years of theocratic punishment of learning and discoveries that didn't fit to theocratic dogma.

So you ignore evidence of a Gods existence

None exists.

There is no evidence you exist. There is no evidence Obama exists. There is no evidence that Turnbull exists. I have never met any therefore they do not exist.

This is the core of your thinking - or what passes for it.

There is no evidence to suggest God exists.

Get used to it.

(look up the word 'faith', Maria)

You misunderstand 'evidence' as you do so many other words. There is plenty of EVIDENCE. What is lacking is rock-solid PROOF.

Look up THOSE words, pedantry-master.

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mariacostel

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #95 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 6:38am

Stratos wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 8:58pm:

LifeOrDeath wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 8:46pm:

I think the point was you have no platform for ridiculing
others as you can be ridiculed in the same light stratos.

I'm simply saying that before the start of the universe, there is no evidence for anything. It could have been a divine being that got things started, but with the absence of any evidence of any kind, why assume one did this thing?

With the absolute and complete absence of any evidence of any kind, surely that does not preclude any explanation at all.

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Stratos

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #96 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 7:08am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 6:33am:

Of course you believe in THEM.

Yes, because there is contemporary written or archaeological evidence, which I encouraged you to look up. I will now do something quote shocking and direct you to the evidence:

Pontius Pilate:

-The Pilate Stone, dated from the early 1st Century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilate_Stone
-The writings of Philo of Alexandria, contemporary Historian.

Herod

-Numerous buildings that he commissioned to be built, and his tomb has been discovered
-The writings of Josephus, while not contemporary do appear to be accurate, as they have given us the location of key physical proof such as the aforementioned tomb.

If you can provide similar evidence for Jesus I will be perfectly happy to agree, but you have failed to do so.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Stratos

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #97 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 7:10am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 6:38am:

With the absolute and complete absence of any evidence of any kind, surely that does not preclude any explanation at all.

Quite right. So why assume a divine being over literally any other explanation? Maybe it was me? Maybe it was you? equally as much evidence for either.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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mariacostel

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #98 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 7:40am

[color=#0000ff][/color]Stratos wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 7:08am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 6:33am:

Of course you believe in THEM.

Yes, because there is contemporary written or archaeological evidence, which I encouraged you to look up. I will now do something quote shocking and direct you to the evidence:

Pontius Pilate:

-The Pilate Stone, dated from the early 1st Century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilate_Stone How do we know it was not faked? The evidence does not prove otherwise
-The writings of Philo of Alexandria, contemporary Historian. So, not a reliable eye-witness? try again.

Herod

-Numerous buildings that he commissioned to be built, and his tomb has been discovered
-The writings of Josephus, while not contemporary do appear to be accurate, as they have given us the location of key physical proof such as the aforementioned tomb. So non-contemporary accounts work for you, but only for some people? [b]Of course the absence of a tomb is kinda the entire point, is it not?
[/b]
If you can provide similar evidence for Jesus I will be perfectly happy to agree, but you have failed to do so.

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mariacostel

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #99 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 7:41am

Stratos wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 7:10am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 6:38am:

With the absolute and complete absence of any evidence of any kind, surely that does not preclude any explanation at all.

Quite right. So why assume a divine being over literally any other explanation? Maybe it was me? Maybe it was you? equally as much evidence for either.

So at least you admit the possibility. It is a start!

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athos

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #100 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:05am

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 7:30pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 5:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 4:25pm:

He Man wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 4:19pm:

Stratos wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 4:09pm:

That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Which is why God (or anything) is a poor argument for the questions "what came before the big bang". Nobody knows. Maybe it was God. Maybe it was Bojack's Penis.

Both statement are provided without evidence to substantiate their various claims. If you lack knowledge in a particular area, then the correct answer is "I don't know", not God/Allah/Vishnu did it when there is nothing to suggest otherwise.

He Man wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 3:45pm:

From the beginning the wages of sin was death, set by god.

Read Genesis. The truly scary thing reading it in hindsight was that the Adam and Eve fable's moral is to not learn. Man was punished forever, for wanting to learn more. What a perfect set up for thousands of years of theocratic punishment of learning and discoveries that didn't fit to theocratic dogma.

So you ignore evidence of a Gods existence

None exists.

There is no evidence you exist. There is no evidence Obama exists. There is no evidence that Turnbull exists. I have never met any therefore they do not exist.

This is the core of your thinking - or what passes for it.

There is no evidence to suggest God exists.

Get used to it.

(look up the word 'faith', Longy)

Depends what sort of evidence we are talking about.
I personally experience evidence of God's existence every day.
There are some theories that atheists are people without enough spiritual intelligence (spiritually disabled) to realize gods existence. This is nothing unusual when we know that there are autistic people, those who can't understand mathematics, without vision, people with ADD and other disorders.

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Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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Kytro

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #101 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:11am

He Man wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 2:41pm:

If a God exists you would see his handy work everywhere evidenced in creation and its complexity and evolution. To you this comes from where exactly ?

Effectively if the universe didn't work like this it wouldn't be here if a similar form, so it doesn't actually much matter how complex it is because we don't have another universe to compare it to.

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mariacostel

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #102 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:28am

Kytro wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:11am:

He Man wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 2:41pm:

If a God exists you would see his handy work everywhere evidenced in creation and its complexity and evolution. To you this comes from where exactly ?

Effectively if the universe didn't work like this it wouldn't be here if a similar form, so it doesn't actually much matter how complex it is because we don't have another universe to compare it to.

Bit of a cop-out though, isn't it?

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #103 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:28am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 6:35am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 7:28pm:

He Man wrote on Nov 11^th, 2015 at 3:50pm:

I understand you perfectly. You are saying there is no evidence according to your paradigm because that suits you. Your paradigm. Just like I said my hypothesis that a God created a Big Bang gives me a creator yours does not. Evidence of an intelligent creator would be intelligent life and complexity, which I have. In your case you end up with a theory. Trying to explain everything that is perfectly explainable in mine.

You are free to believe what you want but you have no case whatsoever to talk down to others at all. Nor tell them that there is no god. Only that is your opinion.

Not my fault iof you're a smacking idiot. Intelligent life on this planet is explained just as easily by evolutionary processes. And we have a shitload more evidence for those.

Really? Do the math. From single celled organism to fully sentient human life is about a million evolutionary steps. Each of these steps has a probability of occurring of about one in a hundred trillion. So the possibility of use having evolved is about a hundred million trillion to one.

And I am being generous.

Whilst that may be the case, think about the time scales and the generations of organisms involved. People have a very small chance of winning the lottery on their own, but get a large enough group, the chances that one of those group win are a lot better.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Atheists open churches around the world
Reply #104 - Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:29am

athos wrote on Nov 12^th, 2015 at 8:05am:

Depends what sort of evidence we are talking about.
I personally experience evidence of God's existence every day.
There are some theories that atheists are people without enough spiritual intelligence (spiritually disabled) to realize gods existence. This is nothing unusual when we know that there are autistic people, those who can't understand mathematics, without vision, people with ADD and other disorders.

Personal experience is the last thing to be trusted as evidence.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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