Australian Politics Forum - Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror

greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139651 Gender:	Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror Reply #45 - Nov 21^st, 2015 at 10:54pm Soren wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 9:30am: What gets up my nose is ... Jizz?
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ManOWar New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30 Gender:	Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror Reply #46 - Nov 21^st, 2015 at 10:56pm Karnal wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 8:59pm: Soren wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 9:30am: What gets up my nose is... ooo is it a banana I love bananas can I have a banana or some nuts. Throw it some nuts for crying out loud.
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Karnal Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 96660	Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror Reply #47 - Nov 21^st, 2015 at 11:08pm greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 10:54pm: Soren wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 9:30am: What gets up my nose is ... Jizz? No no, that goes in the old boy's bottom. It comes out of his nose.
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wiseguy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 519 Gender:	Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror Reply #48 - Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 1:40am Karnal wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 11:08pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 10:54pm: Soren wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 9:30am: What gets up my nose is ... Jizz? No no, that goes in the old boy's bottom. It comes out of his nose. You should know.
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Soren

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Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Reply #49 - Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:19am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:34am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

Ok lets start with Tarek, he says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar is responsible for Islamic terror, do you agree with this?

The short answer is no.

But this Tarek guy is disingenuously conflating two separate things: what the vast majority of muslim scholars understand to be the doctrine of armed jihad, and what the minority of terrorists understand it to be.

So of course if you took the definition of armed jihad to be only the definition understood by a tiny minority of islamists (and ignored the mainstream view) - then yes, that doctrine is responsible for Islamic terror.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

Tarek says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar should be made defunct and inapplicable to the 21st century, do you agree with this?

The actual mainstream view of armed jihad is identical to universal understandings of the right to self-defense, which no country on earth rejects, and which is even enshrined in the UN charter. So of course it is applicable to the 21st century. But the minority terrorist view of armed jihad - of course it goes without saying - it didn't apply to the 7th century, and it doesn't apply to the 21st century.

Funny how there is a constant disagreement about the eternal word of god among Muslims.

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward "

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." (t

his must be the Religion of Peace quote, yes?

)

And so on, and so on.

The scholars and the jihadis disagree on what it all means? I don't think so. They may disagree on az word here and a word there (are we at war?) but the meaning and the spirit of these and many other verses is pretty clear. In fact these may be the least obscure and ambiguous bits of the texts.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Reply #50 - Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:33am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:34am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

Ok lets start with Tarek, he says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar is responsible for Islamic terror, do you agree with this?

The short answer is no.

But this Tarek guy is disingenuously conflating two separate things: what the vast majority of muslim scholars understand to be the doctrine of armed jihad, and what the minority of terrorists understand it to be.

So of course if you took the definition of armed jihad to be only the definition understood by a tiny minority of islamists (and ignored the mainstream view) - then yes, that doctrine is responsible for Islamic terror.

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 11:26am:

Tarek says the doctrine of armed jihad against the kuffar should be made defunct and inapplicable to the 21st century, do you agree with this?

The actual mainstream view of armed jihad is identical to universal understandings of the right to self-defense, which no country on earth rejects, and which is even enshrined in the UN charter. So of course it is applicable to the 21st century. But the minority terrorist view of armed jihad - of course it goes without saying - it didn't apply to the 7th century, and it doesn't apply to the 21st century.

Sounds like spineless apologetics Gandalf.

The Book of Jihad by Ibn Nuhaas is a respected work from Imam Ibn Nuhaas, have any muslims ever been critical of that book or do they praise it as the best book on Jihad with sound Islamic ideology.

We have Anwar al Awlaki who wrote 44 ways to support Jihad, have any scholars ever criticised that work?

Both of these books are free to download from Islamic websites.

Was the Battle of Lepanto self defence by muslims or were they invaders who got their asses handed to them?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139651 Gender:	Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror Reply #51 - Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:35am Karnal wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 11:08pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 10:54pm: Soren wrote on Nov 21^st, 2015 at 9:30am: What gets up my nose is ... Jizz? No no, that goes in the old boy's bottom. It comes out of his nose. Ah, of course!
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Soren

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Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Reply #52 - Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:48am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 3:07pm:

This is what you are proving yourself incapable of S - acknowledging this very real phenomenon and condemning the attacks for what they are - totally unjustified. Its like your crusade against these "lefty progs" creates some impenetrable cognitive barrier against saying anything that might be construed as acknowledging they are right. So you tiptoe around outrageous attacks against muslims and even go one step further - actually labelling those who point out the vulnerability of the muslim community as "evaders". I mean would it really kill you to say "damn the terrorists, damn Islam, barbaric blah blah blah - but yes there is a risk this could cause a backlash against innocent muslims, and I don't condone that"?

Why does the examination of Islam and Muslims in the West ALWAYS start with Western response to Muslim provocation? With the Muslims it's always, "Deplorable attack on innocents - anyway, lets talk about our victimhood until the next deplorable attack (that has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin', BTW)."

Muslims murder 129 in Paris?? Let's talk about Muslim victimhood.
Muslim kid guns down Chinese police accountant? Let's talk about Muslim victimhood.

Gandy, you are not the victims. You are the perpetrators.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Reply #53 - Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:49am

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:48am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 3:07pm:

This is what you are proving yourself incapable of S - acknowledging this very real phenomenon and condemning the attacks for what they are - totally unjustified. Its like your crusade against these "lefty progs" creates some impenetrable cognitive barrier against saying anything that might be construed as acknowledging they are right. So you tiptoe around outrageous attacks against muslims and even go one step further - actually labelling those who point out the vulnerability of the muslim community as "evaders". I mean would it really kill you to say "damn the terrorists, damn Islam, barbaric blah blah blah - but yes there is a risk this could cause a backlash against innocent muslims, and I don't condone that"?

Why does the examination of Islam and Muslims in the West ALWAYS start with Western response to Muslim provocation? With the Muslims it's always, "Deplorable attack on innocents - anyway, lets talk about our victimhood until the next deplorable attack (that has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin', BTW)."

Muslims murder 129 in Paris?? Let's talk about Muslim victimhood.
Muslim kid guns down Chinese police accountant? Let's talk about Muslim victimhood.

Gandy, you are not the victims. You are the perpetrators.

More excuses for killers.

Apologist.

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Soren

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Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Reply #54 - Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:49am:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:48am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20^th, 2015 at 3:07pm:

This is what you are proving yourself incapable of S - acknowledging this very real phenomenon and condemning the attacks for what they are - totally unjustified. Its like your crusade against these "lefty progs" creates some impenetrable cognitive barrier against saying anything that might be construed as acknowledging they are right. So you tiptoe around outrageous attacks against muslims and even go one step further - actually labelling those who point out the vulnerability of the muslim community as "evaders". I mean would it really kill you to say "damn the terrorists, damn Islam, barbaric blah blah blah - but yes there is a risk this could cause a backlash against innocent muslims, and I don't condone that"?

Why does the examination of Islam and Muslims in the West ALWAYS start with Western response to Muslim provocation? With the Muslims it's always, "Deplorable attack on innocents - anyway, lets talk about our victimhood until the next deplorable attack (that has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin', BTW)."

Muslims murder 129 in Paris?? Let's talk about Muslim victimhood.
Muslim kid guns down Chinese police accountant? Let's talk about Muslim victimhood.

Gandy, you are not the victims. You are the perpetrators.

More excuses for killers.

Apologist.

Motivation is the difference between murder and manslaughter. Is it excusing the guilty if the motivation of greed or lust or Islam is identified, especially if identified by the perpetrators themselves? Most people here and in the wider world, I expect, are amazed to see the unplumbed depths of your stupidity.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139651 Gender:	Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror Reply #55 - Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 11:05am Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am: Motivation is the difference between murder and manslaughter. The victims are still dead, no matter what you call it. Apologist.
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Yadda

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Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Reply #56 - Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 11:25am

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am:

Motivation is the difference between murder and manslaughter. Is it excusing the guilty if the motivation of greed or lust or Islam is identified, especially if identified by the perpetrators themselves?

Dictionary,
malice aforethought = = Law the intention to kill or harm, held to distinguish unlawful killing from murder.

.

IMAGE....

Quote:

25 May 2007

"......Al-Faisal spent years travelling the UK preaching racial hatred urging his audience to kill Jews, Hindus and Westerners.

......But throughout the trial he denied he had intended to incite people to violence.

......he argued his talks came from the Koran and if he was on trial so was the holy text."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6692243.stm

.

IMAGE...

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami

Quote:

How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior
January 18, 2012

Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong

"...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance.

When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-isla...

.

Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims
London, Sept.8 [2007]
A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war.
Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.
A former Sharia judge in Pakistan's Supreme Court, 64-year-old Usmani, is...a regular visitor to Britain.
Polite and softly spoken....
He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire non-Muslim world was intent on destroying Islam, but justifies an aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece

.

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am:

Most people here and in the wider world, I expect, are amazed to see the unplumbed depths of your stupidity.

I am.

greggery,

Is is deep, deep in the darkness.

And it is clear, that he doesn't want to find a way back to the light.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror Reply #57 - Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 5:34pm greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 11:05am: Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am: Motivation is the difference between murder and manslaughter. The victims are still dead, no matter what you call it. Apologist. You are an evil moron, aintcha, gweggy.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Reply #58 - Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:04pm

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 5:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 11:05am:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am:

Motivation is the difference between murder and manslaughter.

The victims are still dead, no matter what you call it.

Apologist.

You are an evil nice person, aintcha, gweggy.

au contraire

You're the evil one.

I don't have a nasty bone in my body.

I'm a better person than you could ever hope to be.

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wiseguy

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Re: Tarek Fatah-Root cause of Islamic terror
Reply #59 - Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:05pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 6:04pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 5:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 11:05am:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am:

Motivation is the difference between murder and manslaughter.

The victims are still dead, no matter what you call it.

Apologist.

You are an evil nice person, aintcha, gweggy.

au contraire

You're the evil one.

I don't have a nasty bone in my body.

I'm a better person than you could ever hope to be.

Nah you are an evil vile pig. A self hater obviously so you need to lash out at those around you to try and appease your self hate. Just like that mothra waste of space.

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Muslims are murdering Psychopaths, just look at France, Never Trust a Mussey, Ever.

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