Australian Politics Forum - Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs

Kytro

Gold Member

Offline

Blasphemy: a victimless
crime

Posts: 3409
Adelaide
Gender: male

Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #60 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:25pm

mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:04pm:

Kytro wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 10:09am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 9:47am:

If Australians really wanted a local car industry they would have bought local cars - but they didn't.

That's because they were crap

Really? It is a nice statement to make, but does it really stack up? We made mostly large cars so the comparison needs to be other countries large cars. I've driven imported and locally made. The local product is very good and dollar-for-dollar usually better. Some of our product was EXPORTED which is enough to make the point.

I never liked them, personally. They very ... basic compared to competition, and in many cases the finish was a bit meh. They didn't stand out.

Back to top

IP Logged

Kytro Gold Member Offline Blasphemy: a victimless crime Posts: 3409 Adelaide Gender:	Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs Reply #61 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:26pm mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:07pm: You dont think employees cheat employers? These issues are ALWAYS two-sided. Not anywhere near the scale employers do.
Back to top	IP Logged

Kytro

Gold Member

Offline

Blasphemy: a victimless
crime

Posts: 3409
Adelaide
Gender: male

Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #62 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:28pm

aquascoot wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 1:41pm:

Kyrto when i look at those guys who are losing their jobs after years of work i see people who are scared and look tired.

They basicly have been sold a lemon.

Its actually a very similar look to what i see when i look at a guy who is getting divorced after a long marriage.

society sells these guys a path which is just not realistic.

if you are a good worker or a good husband, thats simply no gaurantee that life is going to work out well for you. its a myth of the group think of society.

every day in the workplace, every day in your relationships, you gotta bring your A game, you got to be growing, you got to be adapting, you got to be improving.

its sad when they say "ive worked here for 30 years (doing the same job) and how am i going to get another job......
i was a good husband for 30 years and how am i going to get another wife.

In all things, work or relationships, DO NOT ASK what am i getting out of this (be that pay or sex and meals and compnaionship) ask WHAT AM I BECOMING.

most people are beaten down, you have to keep growing, you have to WORK HARDER ON YOURSELF THEN YOU WOULD EVER WORK ON YOUR JOB.

this story is going to become worse and worse and worse as the security (in work and relationships) get worse.

You know your average small business person is always scared and always tired but he learns to live with that, embrace it and uses it as a spur to personal improvement.
If you think you can just learn a job at a steel company and then go into Durrrrrrr mode for 40 years, i'm sorry, society has sold you a pup.
Welcome to the real world, now pick yourself up and learn the lessons you should have been learning every moment of every day for the last 40 years

Effectively the days of doing the same job at the same place for life are mostly over.

Back to top

IP Logged

mariacostel

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 7344
Sydney
Gender: female

Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #63 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:58pm

Kytro wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:26pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:07pm:

You dont think employees cheat employers? These issues are ALWAYS two-sided.

Not anywhere near the scale employers do.

So employees never take sickies? Never lazy, never late? Never steal from employees?

Get a grip.

Back to top

IP Logged

Kat Gold Member Offline Socialism IS the answer. Posts: 17709 Everywhere and no-where Gender:	Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs Reply #64 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 5:13pm Are management getting a cut in pay and conditions as well? Is the CEO declining his bonus? Did the 'share-holders' elect to take a smaller dividend? No? Then fuggem - they deserve to fail.
Back to top	IP Logged

Kytro

Gold Member

Offline

Blasphemy: a victimless
crime

Posts: 3409
Adelaide
Gender: male

Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #65 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 5:23pm

mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:58pm:

Kytro wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:26pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:07pm:

You dont think employees cheat employers? These issues are ALWAYS two-sided.

Not anywhere near the scale employers do.

So employees never take sickies? Never lazy, never late? Never steal from employees?

Get a grip.

You seem to be attributing things to me I didn't say. At no point did I say or imply that employees don't rip-off employers, but employers have significantly more power in most jobs and are in a better position to rip-off without consequence.

Back to top

IP Logged

cods

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 88048

Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #66 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 5:29pm

Quote:

a three-year pay freeze and the loss of various conditions for employees.

the way I read the op its a 3 year PAY FREEZE....and some conditions will go for now.....not a PAY CUT at all.. and instead of losing 500 job 220 job will go voluntarily......

the jobs have gone simple as that...its a very robotic world today....

but these guys are doing the right thing for these times...bravo..

Back to top

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 74939
Gender: male

Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #67 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 5:45pm

Dnarever wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 1:48pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 1:43pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 11:58am:

John Smith wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 7:34am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 7:29am:

We need to keep the carmakers going and the govt needs to spend on infrastructure to get the economy going again, that is how you save the steelworks.

Libs love selling Australian jobs to China.

Apparently the govt. is in talks with someone who wants to take over one of the existing car making plants and start a new Aussie made car. Lets hope that with Abbott and Hockey gone the govt. can be more reasonable.

Would you care to support that with even a semi-unofficial hint from someone in the know?

Christopher Pyne, Q&A last Monday. And if you think I'm going to look for a transcript for your benefit you might be waiting an awfully long time.

You have to be kidding right ? Not even Liberal supporters believe anything a Liberal politician is saying.

And last weeks QandA is on Iview.

It was Nick Xenophon who said it and mentioned that Pyne had a meeting with one of the interested groups.

Yes and Pyne acknowledged it as being correct

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 74939
Gender: male

Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #68 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 5:48pm

mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:08pm:

Dnarever wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 1:48pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 1:43pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 11:58am:

John Smith wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 7:34am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 7:29am:

We need to keep the carmakers going and the govt needs to spend on infrastructure to get the economy going again, that is how you save the steelworks.

Libs love selling Australian jobs to China.

Apparently the govt. is in talks with someone who wants to take over one of the existing car making plants and start a new Aussie made car. Lets hope that with Abbott and Hockey gone the govt. can be more reasonable.

Would you care to support that with even a semi-unofficial hint from someone in the know?

Christopher Pyne, Q&A last Monday. And if you think I'm going to look for a transcript for your benefit you might be waiting an awfully long time.

You have to be kidding right ? Not even Liberal supporters believe anything a Liberal politician is saying.

And last weeks QandA is on Iview.

It was Nick Xenophon who said it and mentioned that Pyne had a meeting with one of the interested groups.

So in other words, JS lied.

No surprise there!

unlike you dopey, I don't just make things up .. i gave you Pynes name as the source (he confirmed to Xenophon that he was correct) and the show, I didn't give you a running transcript of exactly who said what.

Of the two of us only one is a liar, and I know it's not me.

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

aquascoot

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 34952
Gender: male

Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #69 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 5:49pm

Kytro wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:28pm:

aquascoot wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 1:41pm:

Kyrto when i look at those guys who are losing their jobs after years of work i see people who are scared and look tired.

They basicly have been sold a lemon.

Its actually a very similar look to what i see when i look at a guy who is getting divorced after a long marriage.

society sells these guys a path which is just not realistic.

if you are a good worker or a good husband, thats simply no gaurantee that life is going to work out well for you. its a myth of the group think of society.

every day in the workplace, every day in your relationships, you gotta bring your A game, you got to be growing, you got to be adapting, you got to be improving.

its sad when they say "ive worked here for 30 years (doing the same job) and how am i going to get another job......
i was a good husband for 30 years and how am i going to get another wife.

In all things, work or relationships, DO NOT ASK what am i getting out of this (be that pay or sex and meals and compnaionship) ask WHAT AM I BECOMING.

most people are beaten down, you have to keep growing, you have to WORK HARDER ON YOURSELF THEN YOU WOULD EVER WORK ON YOUR JOB.

this story is going to become worse and worse and worse as the security (in work and relationships) get worse.

You know your average small business person is always scared and always tired but he learns to live with that, embrace it and uses it as a spur to personal improvement.
If you think you can just learn a job at a steel company and then go into Durrrrrrr mode for 40 years, i'm sorry, society has sold you a pup.
Welcome to the real world, now pick yourself up and learn the lessons you should have been learning every moment of every day for the last 40 years

Effectively the days of doing the same job at the same place for life are mostly over.

we are in furious agreement

Back to top

IP Logged

crocodile

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6683
Gender: male

Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #70 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 7:33pm

Kat wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 5:13pm:

Are management getting a cut in pay and conditions as well?

Is the CEO declining his bonus?

Did the 'share-holders' elect to take a smaller dividend?

No?

Then fuggem - they deserve to fail.

To pay a dividend a profit must occur first. Highly unlikely that divvies will be distributed for a while yet but a look on the ASX site should tell.

Back to top

Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 58927
Here
Gender: male

Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #71 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 8:29pm

mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:08pm:

Dnarever wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 1:48pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 1:43pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 11:58am:

John Smith wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 7:34am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 7:29am:

We need to keep the carmakers going and the govt needs to spend on infrastructure to get the economy going again, that is how you save the steelworks.

Libs love selling Australian jobs to China.

Apparently the govt. is in talks with someone who wants to take over one of the existing car making plants and start a new Aussie made car. Lets hope that with Abbott and Hockey gone the govt. can be more reasonable.

Would you care to support that with even a semi-unofficial hint from someone in the know?

Christopher Pyne, Q&A last Monday. And if you think I'm going to look for a transcript for your benefit you might be waiting an awfully long time.

You have to be kidding right ? Not even Liberal supporters believe anything a Liberal politician is saying.

And last weeks QandA is on Iview.

It was Nick Xenophon who said it and mentioned that Pyne had a meeting with one of the interested groups.

So in other words, JS lied.

No surprise there!

No he was correct just got the wrong name. A simple mistake that made no difference to the point.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 58927
Here
Gender: male

Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #72 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 8:32pm

aquascoot wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 5:49pm:

Kytro wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:28pm:

aquascoot wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 1:41pm:

Kyrto when i look at those guys who are losing their jobs after years of work i see people who are scared and look tired.

They basicly have been sold a lemon.

Its actually a very similar look to what i see when i look at a guy who is getting divorced after a long marriage.

society sells these guys a path which is just not realistic.

if you are a good worker or a good husband, thats simply no gaurantee that life is going to work out well for you. its a myth of the group think of society.

every day in the workplace, every day in your relationships, you gotta bring your A game, you got to be growing, you got to be adapting, you got to be improving.

its sad when they say "ive worked here for 30 years (doing the same job) and how am i going to get another job......
i was a good husband for 30 years and how am i going to get another wife.

In all things, work or relationships, DO NOT ASK what am i getting out of this (be that pay or sex and meals and compnaionship) ask WHAT AM I BECOMING.

most people are beaten down, you have to keep growing, you have to WORK HARDER ON YOURSELF THEN YOU WOULD EVER WORK ON YOUR JOB.

this story is going to become worse and worse and worse as the security (in work and relationships) get worse.

You know your average small business person is always scared and always tired but he learns to live with that, embrace it and uses it as a spur to personal improvement.
If you think you can just learn a job at a steel company and then go into Durrrrrrr mode for 40 years, i'm sorry, society has sold you a pup.
Welcome to the real world, now pick yourself up and learn the lessons you should have been learning every moment of every day for the last 40 years

Effectively the days of doing the same job at the same place for life are mostly over.

we are in furious agreement

Yes it is a shame though.

Back to top

IP Logged

aquascoot

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 34952
Gender: male

Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #73 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 9:01pm

Dnarever wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 8:32pm:

aquascoot wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 5:49pm:

Kytro wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:28pm:

aquascoot wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 1:41pm:

Kyrto when i look at those guys who are losing their jobs after years of work i see people who are scared and look tired.

They basicly have been sold a lemon.

Its actually a very similar look to what i see when i look at a guy who is getting divorced after a long marriage.

society sells these guys a path which is just not realistic.

if you are a good worker or a good husband, thats simply no gaurantee that life is going to work out well for you. its a myth of the group think of society.

every day in the workplace, every day in your relationships, you gotta bring your A game, you got to be growing, you got to be adapting, you got to be improving.

its sad when they say "ive worked here for 30 years (doing the same job) and how am i going to get another job......
i was a good husband for 30 years and how am i going to get another wife.

In all things, work or relationships, DO NOT ASK what am i getting out of this (be that pay or sex and meals and compnaionship) ask WHAT AM I BECOMING.

most people are beaten down, you have to keep growing, you have to WORK HARDER ON YOURSELF THEN YOU WOULD EVER WORK ON YOUR JOB.

this story is going to become worse and worse and worse as the security (in work and relationships) get worse.

You know your average small business person is always scared and always tired but he learns to live with that, embrace it and uses it as a spur to personal improvement.
If you think you can just learn a job at a steel company and then go into Durrrrrrr mode for 40 years, i'm sorry, society has sold you a pup.
Welcome to the real world, now pick yourself up and learn the lessons you should have been learning every moment of every day for the last 40 years

Effectively the days of doing the same job at the same place for life are mostly over.

we are in furious agreement

Yes it is a shame though.

yes and no,
like i said, the thing the small business person has always had to do is to be happy to live with ambiguity.
to learn to live with a degree of fear.

we all will need to do that now.

the modern worker is really a small business person working for "myself pty ltd"

he needs to have that mindset. he needs to market himself (positive psychology, good smile, firm handshake, well groomed, punctual) and he will need to improve himself (courses, studying, innovating, continuous education, learning IT).

so there is more work, indeed.

but the marriage analogy is valid.
you dont get married and just go....righto , set for life, put in my hours, get fat, couch time, chode mode, do as little as possible and try to get away from the partner...not if you want a good marriage.

same goes for a job...you will get more out of it if you improve yourself and you also make yourself indespensible and more likely to be kept on (ie you wont have to go thru as many painful relationship break ups/sackings)

Back to top

IP Logged

mariacostel

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 7344
Sydney
Gender: female

Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #74 - Nov 19^th, 2015 at 7:25am

Kytro wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 5:23pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:58pm:

Kytro wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:26pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:07pm:

You dont think employees cheat employers? These issues are ALWAYS two-sided.

Not anywhere near the scale employers do.

So employees never take sickies? Never lazy, never late? Never steal from employees?

Get a grip.

You seem to be attributing things to me I didn't say. At no point did I say or imply that employees don't rip-off employers, but employers have significantly more power in most jobs and are in a better position to rip-off without consequence.

That is still a largely presumptive and unsupported statement. The facts are that most employers obey the letter of the law and then some. There are some bad ones of course, but they are largely ethical and well-behaved. Can you say the same about employees? The employee's ability to rip of the employer is everywhere while the reverse is largely not easy at all.

Back to top

IP Logged