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Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs (Read 4485 times)
aquascoot
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Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #90 - Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:54am  
John Smith wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:39am:
aquascoot wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:24am:
Its not enough to say "good for you" .
People should be rewarded for doing the right thing.
My dad left the railways with over a year of sick leave and got paid not one cent.

Clearly this is not incentivising the right behaviour.

i would make it a condition that workers be paid their full accrued sick leave when they leave work.
In fact, i would , perhaps, call for the number of sick days paid per annum to be reduced from 10 to 5 and for workers to not only be paid their unpaid sick leave, but with the savings made, they would be paid unclaimed sick leave at 150 %.

this then makes a real "good on you" into a tangible benefit.

We must always look at a desired behaviour and reward it.

This is not rocket science.



that doesn't encourage good behavior, it encourages bad behavior.

If you can feel a flu coming on, congestion of the sinus's, a tickle of the throat, but aren't really sick yet, you can stay home and nip it in the butt BEFORE it knocks you out completely, or you can push on, share the germs with all your colleagues until you are too sick to get out of bed, along with a high percentage of your colleagues leaving the business severely understaffed.



Wink Wink
i call this the human beings mental capacity to rationalise laziness .

"i cant work because i am too depressed"
(maybe you are depressed because you arent getting the joy of working)

"i cant get a girlfriend because i dont feel confident enough to ask anyone out"
(maybe your lack of confidence is seen by women as you being weak and they dont want to go out with you).


humans are great at rationalising anything
The book of excuses is a very very big book.
You should read ekhardt Tolles  "the power of now" . Its much shorter  Wink
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #91 - Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:56am  
Neoconservatism at work. Look after the CEO and top execs, forget about the rest.
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mariacostel
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Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #92 - Nov 19th, 2015 at 10:04am  
aquascoot wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:24am:
mariacostel wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:03am:
Dnarever wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 8:22am:
mariacostel wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 7:58am:
Dnarever wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 7:49am:
mariacostel wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 7:25am:
Kytro wrote on Nov 18th, 2015 at 5:23pm:
mariacostel wrote on Nov 18th, 2015 at 4:58pm:
Kytro wrote on Nov 18th, 2015 at 4:26pm:
mariacostel wrote on Nov 18th, 2015 at 4:07pm:
You dont think employees cheat employers?  These issues are ALWAYS two-sided.


Not anywhere near the scale employers do.


So employees never take sickies? Never lazy, never late?  Never steal from employees?

Get a grip.


You seem to be attributing things to me I didn't say. At no point did I say or imply that employees don't rip-off employers, but employers have significantly more power in most jobs and are in a better position to rip-off without consequence.


That is still a largely presumptive and unsupported statement. The facts are that most employers obey the letter of the law and then some. There are some bad ones of course, but they are largely ethical and well-behaved. Can you say the same about employees? The employee's ability to rip of the employer is everywhere while the reverse is largely not easy at all.


The facts are that most employers obey the letter of the law and then some.

I have never found that to be the case except for in areas where they know they will be caught. I have never worked for an employer who would not break laws when they knew they would get away with it and an awful lot falls into this category.


Ever taken a sickie, DNA?  Ever put in less than full effort in your 8 hour day?  If so, you have cheated your employer.


I have a life time average consistent with the last ten years where I averaged about 1 day off per year. Mostly to attend funerals. My more recent time off included a shoulder operation where the Dr wanted ne to take off 6 weeks and I only took 15 days. This increased my average to 2.5 days per year average (10yr av). My leave history routinely shows periods of about 2 years with no day off.

I left 1 employer with over 2 years of unused personal leave and a second with about 8 months of unused leave.

Yes I am a dope in this area and I have a history of showing more loyalty than my employers have deserved, I never worked for any company where I would not have easily been in the top 5% of performers in this area.

The only time I have had off when not legitimately sick was due to bush fires where the roads were closed. On the job I was routinely the first to arrive and the last to leave.

I have been good value to any employer I worked for.



Good for you. Now, would you describe yourself as even remotely typical of workers in the companies you have been employed by?



Its not enough to say "good for you" .
People should be rewarded for doing the right thing.
My dad left the railways with over a year of sick leave and got paid not one cent.

Clearly this is not incentivising the right behaviour.

i would make it a condition that workers be paid their full accrued sick leave when they leave work.
In fact, i would , perhaps, call for the number of sick days paid per annum to be reduced from 10 to 5 and for workers to not only be paid their unpaid sick leave, but with the savings made, they would be paid unclaimed sick leave at 150 %.

this then makes a real "good on you" into a tangible benefit.

We must always look at a desired behaviour and reward it.

This is not rocket science.



Sick leave is for when you are SICK. It is not a reward.  If you aren't sick then you are better off.
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aquascoot
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Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #93 - Nov 19th, 2015 at 10:14am  
mariacostel wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 10:04am:
aquascoot wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:24am:
mariacostel wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:03am:
Dnarever wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 8:22am:
mariacostel wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 7:58am:
Dnarever wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 7:49am:
mariacostel wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 7:25am:
Kytro wrote on Nov 18th, 2015 at 5:23pm:
mariacostel wrote on Nov 18th, 2015 at 4:58pm:
Kytro wrote on Nov 18th, 2015 at 4:26pm:
mariacostel wrote on Nov 18th, 2015 at 4:07pm:
You dont think employees cheat employers?  These issues are ALWAYS two-sided.


Not anywhere near the scale employers do.


So employees never take sickies? Never lazy, never late?  Never steal from employees?

Get a grip.


You seem to be attributing things to me I didn't say. At no point did I say or imply that employees don't rip-off employers, but employers have significantly more power in most jobs and are in a better position to rip-off without consequence.


That is still a largely presumptive and unsupported statement. The facts are that most employers obey the letter of the law and then some. There are some bad ones of course, but they are largely ethical and well-behaved. Can you say the same about employees? The employee's ability to rip of the employer is everywhere while the reverse is largely not easy at all.


The facts are that most employers obey the letter of the law and then some.

I have never found that to be the case except for in areas where they know they will be caught. I have never worked for an employer who would not break laws when they knew they would get away with it and an awful lot falls into this category.


Ever taken a sickie, DNA?  Ever put in less than full effort in your 8 hour day?  If so, you have cheated your employer.


I have a life time average consistent with the last ten years where I averaged about 1 day off per year. Mostly to attend funerals. My more recent time off included a shoulder operation where the Dr wanted ne to take off 6 weeks and I only took 15 days. This increased my average to 2.5 days per year average (10yr av). My leave history routinely shows periods of about 2 years with no day off.

I left 1 employer with over 2 years of unused personal leave and a second with about 8 months of unused leave.

Yes I am a dope in this area and I have a history of showing more loyalty than my employers have deserved, I never worked for any company where I would not have easily been in the top 5% of performers in this area.

The only time I have had off when not legitimately sick was due to bush fires where the roads were closed. On the job I was routinely the first to arrive and the last to leave.

I have been good value to any employer I worked for.



Good for you. Now, would you describe yourself as even remotely typical of workers in the companies you have been employed by?



Its not enough to say "good for you" .
People should be rewarded for doing the right thing.
My dad left the railways with over a year of sick leave and got paid not one cent.

Clearly this is not incentivising the right behaviour.

i would make it a condition that workers be paid their full accrued sick leave when they leave work.
In fact, i would , perhaps, call for the number of sick days paid per annum to be reduced from 10 to 5 and for workers to not only be paid their unpaid sick leave, but with the savings made, they would be paid unclaimed sick leave at 150 %.

this then makes a real "good on you" into a tangible benefit.

We must always look at a desired behaviour and reward it.

This is not rocket science.



Sick leave is for when you are SICK. It is not a reward.  If you aren't sick then you are better off.


thats a bad attitude.
you would not do well in middle management with that attitude.
you need to reward , reward, reward those who work hard for you or they will go work hard for your competitors who have emotional intelligence  Wink
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John Smith
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Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #94 - Nov 19th, 2015 at 10:17am  
aquascoot wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:54am:
John Smith wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:39am:
aquascoot wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:24am:
Its not enough to say "good for you" .
People should be rewarded for doing the right thing.
My dad left the railways with over a year of sick leave and got paid not one cent.

Clearly this is not incentivising the right behaviour.

i would make it a condition that workers be paid their full accrued sick leave when they leave work.
In fact, i would , perhaps, call for the number of sick days paid per annum to be reduced from 10 to 5 and for workers to not only be paid their unpaid sick leave, but with the savings made, they would be paid unclaimed sick leave at 150 %.

this then makes a real "good on you" into a tangible benefit.

We must always look at a desired behaviour and reward it.

This is not rocket science.



that doesn't encourage good behavior, it encourages bad behavior.

If you can feel a flu coming on, congestion of the sinus's, a tickle of the throat, but aren't really sick yet, you can stay home and nip it in the butt BEFORE it knocks you out completely, or you can push on, share the germs with all your colleagues until you are too sick to get out of bed, along with a high percentage of your colleagues leaving the business severely understaffed.



Wink Wink
i call this the human beings mental capacity to rationalise laziness .

"i cant work because i am too depressed"
(maybe you are depressed because you arent getting the joy of working)

"i cant get a girlfriend because i dont feel confident enough to ask anyone out"
(maybe your lack of confidence is seen by women as you being weak and they dont want to go out with you).


humans are great at rationalising anything
The book of excuses is a very very big book.
You should read ekhardt Tolles  "the power of now" . Its much shorter  Wink


and I call you an idiot with his head firmly implanted up his horses arse.

I been in a situation where a staff member came to work with the start of a cold, the next week, I had a $35 000 job to finish on a deadline and no staff to do it. It would have been much better for me if he had taken that day or two off, and not infected the rest of my crew.
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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mariacostel
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Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #95 - Nov 19th, 2015 at 10:58am  
aquascoot wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 10:14am:
mariacostel wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 10:04am:
aquascoot wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:24am:
mariacostel wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:03am:
Dnarever wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 8:22am:
mariacostel wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 7:58am:
Dnarever wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 7:49am:
mariacostel wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 7:25am:
Kytro wrote on Nov 18th, 2015 at 5:23pm:
mariacostel wrote on Nov 18th, 2015 at 4:58pm:
Kytro wrote on Nov 18th, 2015 at 4:26pm:
mariacostel wrote on Nov 18th, 2015 at 4:07pm:
You dont think employees cheat employers?  These issues are ALWAYS two-sided.


Not anywhere near the scale employers do.


So employees never take sickies? Never lazy, never late?  Never steal from employees?

Get a grip.


You seem to be attributing things to me I didn't say. At no point did I say or imply that employees don't rip-off employers, but employers have significantly more power in most jobs and are in a better position to rip-off without consequence.


That is still a largely presumptive and unsupported statement. The facts are that most employers obey the letter of the law and then some. There are some bad ones of course, but they are largely ethical and well-behaved. Can you say the same about employees? The employee's ability to rip of the employer is everywhere while the reverse is largely not easy at all.


The facts are that most employers obey the letter of the law and then some.

I have never found that to be the case except for in areas where they know they will be caught. I have never worked for an employer who would not break laws when they knew they would get away with it and an awful lot falls into this category.


Ever taken a sickie, DNA?  Ever put in less than full effort in your 8 hour day?  If so, you have cheated your employer.


I have a life time average consistent with the last ten years where I averaged about 1 day off per year. Mostly to attend funerals. My more recent time off included a shoulder operation where the Dr wanted ne to take off 6 weeks and I only took 15 days. This increased my average to 2.5 days per year average (10yr av). My leave history routinely shows periods of about 2 years with no day off.

I left 1 employer with over 2 years of unused personal leave and a second with about 8 months of unused leave.

Yes I am a dope in this area and I have a history of showing more loyalty than my employers have deserved, I never worked for any company where I would not have easily been in the top 5% of performers in this area.

The only time I have had off when not legitimately sick was due to bush fires where the roads were closed. On the job I was routinely the first to arrive and the last to leave.

I have been good value to any employer I worked for.



Good for you. Now, would you describe yourself as even remotely typical of workers in the companies you have been employed by?



Its not enough to say "good for you" .
People should be rewarded for doing the right thing.
My dad left the railways with over a year of sick leave and got paid not one cent.

Clearly this is not incentivising the right behaviour.

i would make it a condition that workers be paid their full accrued sick leave when they leave work.
In fact, i would , perhaps, call for the number of sick days paid per annum to be reduced from 10 to 5 and for workers to not only be paid their unpaid sick leave, but with the savings made, they would be paid unclaimed sick leave at 150 %.

this then makes a real "good on you" into a tangible benefit.

We must always look at a desired behaviour and reward it.

This is not rocket science.



Sick leave is for when you are SICK. It is not a reward.  If you aren't sick then you are better off.


thats a bad attitude.
you would not do well in middle management with that attitude.
you need to reward , reward, reward those who work hard for you or they will go work hard for your competitors who have emotional intelligence  Wink


I worked in HR for a long time. Much of that is nonsense. The number of employees you 'don't want to go work for your competitors' is actually very few - if any. 'Reward' is not defined as giving people time off from work to the detriment of the company. You reward your stellar employees by wage rises, better conditions and promotions. The ones who are only motivated by perks and sick leave are the ones you WANT to go work for your competitors!
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #96 - Nov 19th, 2015 at 11:02am  
John Smith wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 10:17am:
aquascoot wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:54am:
John Smith wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:39am:
aquascoot wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:24am:
Its not enough to say "good for you" .
People should be rewarded for doing the right thing.
My dad left the railways with over a year of sick leave and got paid not one cent.

Clearly this is not incentivising the right behaviour.

i would make it a condition that workers be paid their full accrued sick leave when they leave work.
In fact, i would , perhaps, call for the number of sick days paid per annum to be reduced from 10 to 5 and for workers to not only be paid their unpaid sick leave, but with the savings made, they would be paid unclaimed sick leave at 150 %.

this then makes a real "good on you" into a tangible benefit.

We must always look at a desired behaviour and reward it.

This is not rocket science.



that doesn't encourage good behavior, it encourages bad behavior.

If you can feel a flu coming on, congestion of the sinus's, a tickle of the throat, but aren't really sick yet, you can stay home and nip it in the butt BEFORE it knocks you out completely, or you can push on, share the germs with all your colleagues until you are too sick to get out of bed, along with a high percentage of your colleagues leaving the business severely understaffed.



Wink Wink
i call this the human beings mental capacity to rationalise laziness .

"i cant work because i am too depressed"
(maybe you are depressed because you arent getting the joy of working)

"i cant get a girlfriend because i dont feel confident enough to ask anyone out"
(maybe your lack of confidence is seen by women as you being weak and they dont want to go out with you).


humans are great at rationalising anything
The book of excuses is a very very big book.
You should read ekhardt Tolles  "the power of now" . Its much shorter  Wink


and I call you an idiot with his head firmly implanted up his horses arse.



Once again, succinct and accurate.

You're on a roll this morning, Mr Smith.
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Kytro
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Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #97 - Nov 19th, 2015 at 6:11pm  
mariacostel wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 7:25am:
That is still a largely presumptive and unsupported statement. The facts are that most employers obey the letter of the law and then some. There are some bad ones of course, but they are largely ethical and well-behaved. Can you say the same about employees? The employee's ability to rip of the employer is everywhere while the reverse is largely not easy at all.


There are have been several high-profile cases that show regulation is required even if most companies do obey the law. When there are high profile cases involving individual it often ends in prison time.

I don't think there is evidence for significant wide spread abuse by employees, but that does not change the fact the companies are in a position to do something abotu it most of the time as they tend to have more power than employees.
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: Workers vote to cut pay & conditions for jobs
Reply #98 - Nov 19th, 2015 at 6:30pm  
...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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