Australian Politics Forum - Peter Jennings: How we can defeat ISIS

BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Peter Jennings: How we can defeat ISIS
Reply #15 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 12:57pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 10:27am:

cods wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 10:26am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 9:59am:

This is pretty much what I've been saying all along. Obama and Turnbull are on course to be flogged if they keep up this ludicrous and losing strategy of airstrikes only. It's time for our soldiers to do what they've been trained to do - kill bad guys and the IS terrorists are the worst of the worst.

you would like the responsibility of putting men on the ground in Syria... good luck with that..

its easy for blokes sitting behind desks in nice big comfy chairs.....

lets see him tie his boots on and join them in the desert??...

I have friends, family who are soldiers. They're all keen and raring to go if given the order. Why? One terrorist killed over there might mean he then can't come here to kill one of our loved ones.

Those family and friends are above and beyond most people, including yourself.

As soldiers they don't have to sue for peace at the end of the campaign. Kytro is trying to tell you it's always political... who is there to sue for peace with in the first place etc... no one wants to live there because the areas surrounding the real bad stuff is just as bad so.... it's already a political vacuum!!!!

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Peter Jennings: How we can defeat ISIS
Reply #16 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 12:59pm

crocodile wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 12:42pm:

Kytro wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 10:21am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 10:07am:

Kytro wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 10:00am:

Increasing civilian casualties will consume political capital, which is why there is reluctance. At some point the deaths will begin increase domestic pressure.

What else can you do? Besides, most of those civilians that the leadership is surrounding themselves with are families or supporters of IS terrorists. Everyone else has fled. Two birds, one stone.

The issue is that what fills the power vacuum? The states in the area seem entirely incapable of maintaining control.

Political realities exist regardless of the consequences.

Yes, that's arguably where the problem started in the first place.

Chicken and egg syndrome...

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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Karnal

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Re: Peter Jennings: How we can defeat ISIS
Reply #17 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 1:29pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 9:59am:

This is pretty much what I've been saying all along. Obama and Turnbull are on course to be flogged if they keep up this ludicrous and losing strategy of airstrikes only. It's time for our soldiers to do what they've been trained to do - kill bad guys and the IS terrorists are the worst of the worst.

That's not what the article is saying. It's saying the coalition needs to use the G20 to get everyone on board (read: the locals). It's saying our soldiers should be used in a training capacity.

ISIS are the worst of the worst, but sending infidel Coalition troops in to repeat Iraq and Afghanistan is only going to make matters worse.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Peter Jennings: How we can defeat ISIS
Reply #18 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 1:34pm

Karnal wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 1:29pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 9:59am:

This is pretty much what I've been saying all along. Obama and Turnbull are on course to be flogged if they keep up this ludicrous and losing strategy of airstrikes only. It's time for our soldiers to do what they've been trained to do - kill bad guys and the IS terrorists are the worst of the worst.

That's not what the article is saying. It's saying the coalition needs to use the G20 to get everyone on board (read: the locals). It's saying our soldiers should be used in a training capacity.

ISIS are the worst of the worst, but sending infidel Coalition troops in to repeat Iraq and Afghanistan is only going to make matters worse.

Yup, but airpower alone is not going to win this.

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Peter Jennings: How we can defeat ISIS Reply #19 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 1:38pm UN and NATO should declare war on ISIS and then the rest will fall in place US should take the lead in calling for this declaration
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96061 Gender:	Re: Peter Jennings: How we can defeat ISIS Reply #20 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 2:28pm Maqqa wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 1:38pm: UN and NATO should declare war on ISIS and then the rest will fall in place US should take the lead in calling for this declaration What are you trying to achieve?
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mariacostel

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Re: Peter Jennings: How we can defeat ISIS
Reply #21 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 2:53pm

crocodile wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 12:42pm:

Kytro wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 10:21am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 10:07am:

Kytro wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 10:00am:

Increasing civilian casualties will consume political capital, which is why there is reluctance. At some point the deaths will begin increase domestic pressure.

What else can you do? Besides, most of those civilians that the leadership is surrounding themselves with are families or supporters of IS terrorists. Everyone else has fled. Two birds, one stone.

The issue is that what fills the power vacuum? The states in the area seem entirely incapable of maintaining control.

Political realities exist regardless of the consequences.

Yes, that's arguably where the problem started in the first place.

But can you imagine ANYONE worse than ISIS replacing them? Seriously, has there been a more barbaric group since WW2 and on this scale?

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Peter Jennings: How we can defeat ISIS
Reply #22 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 2:55pm

Maqqa wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 1:38pm:

UN and NATO should declare war on ISIS and then the rest will fall in place

US should take the lead in calling for this declaration

The UN won't do anything until the UN HQ is attacked....... then it'll be all hands on deck....

G20? Another coalition of the unwitting? As long as it doesn't happen to their country, they will stay low and hope to avoid an attack. Only when enough have been injured and attacked - one at a time - will the ROTW stand up and say enough is enough.

Nobody listens to Domino Theory any more.......

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« Last Edit: Nov 18^th, 2015 at 3:03pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: Peter Jennings: How we can defeat ISIS Reply #23 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 3:23pm How do you defeat an enemy that isnt afraid to die ? Another 10 years of boots on the ground will achieve what it did in Iraq and Afghanistan , sfa
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mariacostel

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Re: Peter Jennings: How we can defeat ISIS
Reply #24 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:00pm

Its time wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 3:23pm:

How do you defeat an enemy that isnt afraid to die ? Another 10 years of boots on the ground will achieve what it did in Iraq and Afghanistan , sfa

You give them what they want - death. You attack with the intention of total annihilation and only complete surrender avoids a bullet.

It's how wars were fought for centuries.

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Kytro

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Re: Peter Jennings: How we can defeat ISIS
Reply #25 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:07pm

mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:00pm:

Its time wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 3:23pm:

How do you defeat an enemy that isnt afraid to die ? Another 10 years of boots on the ground will achieve what it did in Iraq and Afghanistan , sfa

You give them what they want - death. You attack with the intention of total annihilation and only complete surrender avoids a bullet.

It's how wars were fought for centuries.

It's untenable, no modern democracy could survive attempting this because social media will show the horror and attempting to curtail that will be almost impossible.

You are basically proposing something that has no chance of being implemented. It's becoming a tired, if horrifying refrain.

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Maqqa

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Re: Peter Jennings: How we can defeat ISIS
Reply #26 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:13pm

Kytro wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:07pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:00pm:

Its time wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 3:23pm:

How do you defeat an enemy that isnt afraid to die ? Another 10 years of boots on the ground will achieve what it did in Iraq and Afghanistan , sfa

You give them what they want - death. You attack with the intention of total annihilation and only complete surrender avoids a bullet.

It's how wars were fought for centuries.

It's untenable, no modern democracy could survive attempting this because social media will show the horror and attempting to curtail that will be almost impossible.

You are basically proposing something that has no chance of being implemented. It's becoming a tired, if horrifying refrain.

Hence my thread on "Rules of Engagement"

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Karnal

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Re: Peter Jennings: How we can defeat ISIS
Reply #27 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:18pm

mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 2:53pm:

crocodile wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 12:42pm:

Kytro wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 10:21am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 10:07am:

Kytro wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 10:00am:

Increasing civilian casualties will consume political capital, which is why there is reluctance. At some point the deaths will begin increase domestic pressure.

What else can you do? Besides, most of those civilians that the leadership is surrounding themselves with are families or supporters of IS terrorists. Everyone else has fled. Two birds, one stone.

The issue is that what fills the power vacuum? The states in the area seem entirely incapable of maintaining control.

Political realities exist regardless of the consequences.

Yes, that's arguably where the problem started in the first place.

But can you imagine ANYONE worse than ISIS replacing them?

Uncle is not prepared to take that risk. Back in 2003, it couldn't imagine anyone worse than Saddam.

Mounting a full-scale invasion to kill off ISIL without a plan is not a very smart thing to do. Even the air strikes are tokenistic. It's like trying to get rid of cockroaches in your house by stepping on them, one by one. When they die, of course, they lay their eggs. More appear.

This is exactly what happened during the US occupation of Iraq. Uncle simply attracted al Qaida to a new front. Al Qaida then went about their business, getting tough on Iraqis. Uncle "saved" the people of Iraq by drawing in al Qaida, and then ISIL. If Uncle goes in, there will be a new ISIL, and an ISIL after that.

The only way to get rid of ISIL and secure the region is by placing this task in the hands of Sunni Muslims. All Uncle can do is attract more jihadists, create more carnage and instability. Instability does not just mean the regular beheadings and suicide bombings in Iraq and Syria. As Paris showed, along with Lebanon and Turkey in the weeks before, the instability is global.

A big occupying force can't win this sort of war. Defeating ISIL will require far more than military means. This is a war of ideas more than it's a war of bullets and bombs.

The superior opponent waits for the right conditions. If we've learned anything in the past half century, it's this: the size of your firepower is not the deciding factor in war.

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Its time

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Re: Peter Jennings: How we can defeat ISIS
Reply #28 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:34pm

mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:00pm:

Its time wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 3:23pm:

How do you defeat an enemy that isnt afraid to die ? Another 10 years of boots on the ground will achieve what it did in Iraq and Afghanistan , sfa

You give them what they want - death. You attack with the intention of total annihilation and only complete surrender avoids a bullet.

It's how wars were fought for centuries.

Yeah i don't think they will be giving up anything , even after 20 years of allied boots on the ground nothing will change , it certainly hasnt after 10, if anything it much worse.

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mariacostel

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Re: Peter Jennings: How we can defeat ISIS
Reply #29 - Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:57pm

Kytro wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:07pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 4:00pm:

Its time wrote on Nov 18^th, 2015 at 3:23pm:

How do you defeat an enemy that isnt afraid to die ? Another 10 years of boots on the ground will achieve what it did in Iraq and Afghanistan , sfa

You give them what they want - death. You attack with the intention of total annihilation and only complete surrender avoids a bullet.

It's how wars were fought for centuries.

It's untenable, no modern democracy could survive attempting this because social media will show the horror and attempting to curtail that will be almost impossible.

You are basically proposing something that has no chance of being implemented. It's becoming a tired, if horrifying refrain.

What if ISIS were to succeed in another 9/11. Do you think the Yanks would hesitate to wipe them off the map? Do you think anyone would stop them or even complain? ISIS is not just your regular group of terrorists. They ahve set new lows in barbarity. Anyhow, it would all be over before anyone knew.

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