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Bandt more stupidity on Super (Read 3557 times)
Maqqa
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Bandt more stupidity on Super
Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:24am
 
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-23/super-saving-idea-could-end-up-costing-tax...

Introducing a lifetime cap on superannuation — a proposal being floated as a potential saving — could actually cost taxpayers more, according to the Parliamentary Budget Office (PBO).

The finding will put a dampener on enthusiasm for the idea, adding to concerns about the potential problems with implementation.

Greens treasury spokesman Adam Bandt said high income earners tend to pour money into superannuation shortly before retirement to maximise subsequent tax benefits.

"[They] put it into superannuation knowing that they can then draw it out again in couple of years tax free," Mr Bandt said.

To counter that, some people have argued for a cap on lifetime superannuation contributions.

Mr Bandt said recent reports suggested the measure was being considered by the Treasury.

It is thought the measure
might stop
that problem of people putting a lot of money into superannuation
in their final working years in order to minimise tax when they are already looking very healthy for their retirement.

The Greens had the PBO calculate the savings if there was a $500,000 lifetime cap on voluntary contributions.

Mr Bandt said the measure
might only
save about $165 million over four years.

That would not generate the required savings, he said, "when the cost of super tax concessions as a whole is set to be $170 billion over the same period".

"We're concerned that the PBO costings suggest that if you put the cap any higher than $500,000, it
might actually cost the budget
money," he said.

"Now that would be an extremely counter-productive thing to do."

The figures showed a cap of $600,000 would cost the budget $85 million over four years.

Introducing lifetime cap 'problematic'

John Daley from the Grattan Institute also warned about the problems of administering a lifetime cap.

"We only really have very good records back to about 2003, so anyone who has put any money in before 2003 will probably get a free pass," Mr Daley said.

"And superannuation which has of course already delivered phenomenally large tax breaks to an older generation will effectively deliver even more."

Mr Bandt said he was still open to a lifetime cap but argued the real savings, adding up to potentially $10 billion, would come from making superannuation tax rates more closely aligned with income tax rates.

Mr Daley argued for a lower cap on the amount of pre-tax dollars that can go into superannuation, from $35,000 to around $10,000 or $11,000 a year.

He said that, over a lifetime and combined with other savings, that was likely to provide enough to retire on without needing the aged pension.

"That's the point at which support from the taxpayer for your retirement really ought to stop," he said.

"Our suggestion is cap the amount you can put in at $10,000-$11,000 in any one year.

"It is also then administratively reasonably simple — you don't have to be keeping track of people over their entire lives."
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Kytro
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Re: Bandt more stupidity on Super
Reply #1 - Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:32am
 
So you are criticising the greens for getting a policy idea costed, then saying:

Quote:
"We're concerned that the PBO costings suggest that if you put the cap any higher than $500,000, it might actually cost the budget money," he said.

"Now that would be an extremely counter-productive thing to do."


I mean clearly they don't intend to implement the policy in a way that will cost more money than it saves.

Do you expect people to know ahead of time is if a policy will save money?

Taxing super at certain levels makes sense, otherwise it's just a tax-free ride for the well off, but that does not mean creating a huge amount of administration work.
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cods
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Re: Bandt more stupidity on Super
Reply #2 - Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:35am
 
I see they are not more concerned with getting female super into line with male.....yeah I can see thats not important.
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Maqqa
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Re: Bandt more stupidity on Super
Reply #3 - Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:42am
 
Kytro wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:32am:
So you are criticising the greens for getting a policy idea costed, then saying:

Quote:
"We're concerned that the PBO costings suggest that if you put the cap any higher than $500,000, it might actually cost the budget money," he said.

"Now that would be an extremely counter-productive thing to do."


I mean clearly they don't intend to implement the policy in a way that will cost more money than it saves.

Do you expect people to know ahead of time is if a policy will save money?

Taxing super at certain levels makes sense, otherwise it's just a tax-free ride for the well off, but that does not mean creating a huge amount of administration work.


Costing proves how much it cost/save the budget

The stupidity is the $500K life time limit

It shows the Greens have no freakin idea

Would you say a couple in Sydney with a $500K house as "rich" or "super rich"????
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Kytro
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Re: Bandt more stupidity on Super
Reply #4 - Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:43am
 
cods wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:35am:
I see they are not more concerned with getting female super into line with male.....yeah I can see thats not important.


What? Super is based primarily on income and the greens certainly do seem concerned with that. I'm not sure what you are basing this on?

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Maqqa
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Re: Bandt more stupidity on Super
Reply #5 - Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:45am
 
cods wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:35am:
I see they are not more concerned with getting female super into line with male.....yeah I can see thats not important.


Cods

So far in the 30 years of existence Greens have fluffed around the edges with motherhood statements. This can only fool so many people. At 10% that's the saturation of the amount of people who they can fool

If they want to go beyond that - they have to put some numbers down

The Greens' biggest weakness is finance and the economy - this is why you are starting to see them come up with specific numbers and figures

So far - failed both times
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Maqqa
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Re: Bandt more stupidity on Super
Reply #6 - Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:46am
 
Kytro wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:43am:
cods wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:35am:
I see they are not more concerned with getting female super into line with male.....yeah I can see thats not important.


What? Super is based primarily on income and the greens certainly do seem concerned with that. I'm not sure what you are basing this on?



9.5% of the income earnt
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Kytro
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Re: Bandt more stupidity on Super
Reply #7 - Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:47am
 
Maqqa wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:42am:
Kytro wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:32am:
So you are criticising the greens for getting a policy idea costed, then saying:

Quote:
"We're concerned that the PBO costings suggest that if you put the cap any higher than $500,000, it might actually cost the budget money," he said.

"Now that would be an extremely counter-productive thing to do."


I mean clearly they don't intend to implement the policy in a way that will cost more money than it saves.

Do you expect people to know ahead of time is if a policy will save money?

Taxing super at certain levels makes sense, otherwise it's just a tax-free ride for the well off, but that does not mean creating a huge amount of administration work.


Costing proves how much it cost/save the budget

The stupidity is the $500K life time limit

It shows the Greens have no freakin idea

Would you say a couple in Sydney with a $500K house as "rich" or "super rich"????


Neither (considering the median house price is over $1m), but it's more than enough as a tax-free bonus. I don't think that the life-time cap is the right way to go as it requires complex tracking.

They had an idea, costed it, and are now considering the implications. Is that really a bad thing?
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Kytro
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Re: Bandt more stupidity on Super
Reply #8 - Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:49am
 
Maqqa wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:46am:
Kytro wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:43am:
cods wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:35am:
I see they are not more concerned with getting female super into line with male.....yeah I can see thats not important.


What? Super is based primarily on income and the greens certainly do seem concerned with that. I'm not sure what you are basing this on?



9.5% of the income earnt


Therefore reducing the gender pay gap would be the best way to bring Super into line. The greens often argue in favour of this.
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Maqqa
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Re: Bandt more stupidity on Super
Reply #9 - Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:54am
 
Kytro wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:47am:
Neither (considering the median house price is over $1m), but it's more than enough as a tax-free bonus. I don't think that the life-time cap is the right way to go as it requires complex tracking.

They had an idea, costed it, and are now considering the implications. Is that really a bad thing?


Now we are talking sense in terms of $1M

The home is exempt from Pension calculations

So if someone had $1M home they can still get a pension. But if they sell their home to generate an income - they lose their benefits

So does Bandt's limit benefit these people who are not rich but caught in his ill-conceived idea
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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number
 
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Maqqa
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Re: Bandt more stupidity on Super
Reply #10 - Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:56am
 
Kytro wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:49am:
Maqqa wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:46am:
Kytro wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:43am:
cods wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:35am:
I see they are not more concerned with getting female super into line with male.....yeah I can see thats not important.


What? Super is based primarily on income and the greens certainly do seem concerned with that. I'm not sure what you are basing this on?



9.5% of the income earnt


Therefore reducing the gender pay gap would be the best way to bring Super into line. The greens often argue in favour of this.


What gender pay gap is that?

In Australia, jobs are advertise with salary bands depending on education and experience

There are laws ensuring equality and non-discrimination

If you believe there are inequality then report it
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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number
 
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Bandt more stupidity on Super
Reply #11 - Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:58am
 
I don’t care how much people put into super.

But:

1. Only the first 9.5% of income can be invested at concessionary rates. Amounts above that get taxed at the appropriate marginal rate.

2. Income from super gets taxed, full stop. I don’t care if it is taken as a lump sum or annuity etc.

3. Those on the old age pension should be able to work without losing the pension. You get the pension because you are of retirement age. They get taxed on their earnings but keep the full pension. The savings from 1. & 2. will allow everyomne to get the pension, simplifying Centrelink work.

The Greens will NEVER introduce any sensible reform of super because their wealthy, inner city base save way too much tax under the existing rules.
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Kytro
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Re: Bandt more stupidity on Super
Reply #12 - Nov 23rd, 2015 at 9:01am
 
Maqqa wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:54am:
Kytro wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:47am:
Neither (considering the median house price is over $1m), but it's more than enough as a tax-free bonus. I don't think that the life-time cap is the right way to go as it requires complex tracking.

They had an idea, costed it, and are now considering the implications. Is that really a bad thing?


Now we are talking sense in terms of $1M

The home is exempt from Pension calculations

So if someone had $1M home they can still get a pension. But if they sell their home to generate an income - they lose their benefits

So does Bandt's limit benefit these people who are not rich but caught in his ill-conceived idea



What does that have to do with how much untaxed super you can have?
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mariacostel
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Re: Bandt more stupidity on Super
Reply #13 - Nov 23rd, 2015 at 9:05am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:58am:
I don’t care how much people put into super.

But:

1. Only the first 9.5% of income can be invested at concessionary rates. Amounts above that get taxed at the appropriate marginal rate.

2. Income from super gets taxed, full stop. I don’t care if it is taken as a lump sum or annuity etc.

3. Those on the old age pension should be able to work without losing the pension. You get the pension because you are of retirement age. They get taxed on their earnings but keep the full pension. The savings from 1. & 2. will allow everyomne to get the pension, simplifying Centrelink work.

The Greens will NEVER introduce any sensible reform of super because their wealthy, inner city base save way too much tax under the existing rules.



Then why would anyone put ANY money into super at all?  You get no benefits plus you get taxed on the way out and you cant take your money when you want to.
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Kytro
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Re: Bandt more stupidity on Super
Reply #14 - Nov 23rd, 2015 at 9:07am
 
Maqqa wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:56am:
Kytro wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:49am:
Maqqa wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:46am:
Kytro wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:43am:
cods wrote on Nov 23rd, 2015 at 8:35am:
I see they are not more concerned with getting female super into line with male.....yeah I can see thats not important.


What? Super is based primarily on income and the greens certainly do seem concerned with that. I'm not sure what you are basing this on?



9.5% of the income earnt


Therefore reducing the gender pay gap would be the best way to bring Super into line. The greens often argue in favour of this.


What gender pay gap is that?

In Australia, jobs are advertise with salary bands depending on education and experience

There are laws ensuring equality and non-discrimination

If you believe there are inequality then report it


Just because laws exist, does not mean that they are followed.

This is the latest fact sheet, which gives a detailed break down by state and industry.
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