Australian Politics Forum - Domestic violence

Maqqa

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #105 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 7:59pm

fezz wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 7:44pm:

And that I can vouch first hand...my ex wife was at her worst of DV psychological warfare with a hangover, which was too many days a week.
I'm one of those blokes who spent the second half of a sustantial marriage dealing with an abusive woman, the only thing that kept us together so long was my FIFO career.
Now that we've separated, she has become a truly vengeful woman to the point of stalking me via any means possible, esp social media...that includes trying to bring my wider circle of friends into her fold.
The worst part of all of course is the poisoning of our younger children against me...but what can I do? Sweet FA apart from keeping logs for evidence.

Let me guess - there's little you can do about it and not many people believe you right?

But if it was a man doing this then he's assume to be guilty and she'll get a horde of support behind her?!

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #106 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 8:11pm

fezz wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 7:44pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 6:26pm:

fezz wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 6:23pm:

It's complicated alright...and unbalanced.

Last weekend my son got arrested and put on, as Christian Porter, Minister for Social Services puts it, a 72 hour "cooling off" DVO issued by coppers...the kind that shoot first and ask questions later.

Backstory, son and his wife having marital issues and have a nine month old son.
Wife invited man hating friend over for a drink, which ends up being three bottles of wine (my son is a teetotaler of all drugs so is sober for the event). Wife decides with coercion by friend it's the day to leave the relationship.
Wife packs bag, grabs baby and attempts to leave house and get in drunk friends car, who incidentally has a three year old daughter with her. The plan is to drive 50km of city freeway and suburbs.
Son tries to take baby and keep him safe, gets beaten with frying pan, punched and kicked by both women, and a generous loss of skin due to sharp nails.
He loses that battle...next battle is to get baby out of drunk friends arms as she attempts to put him in back seat of car (her own 3yr old is strapped in ready for the drive). She starts screaming that she is being assaulted, neighbors call cops.
Cops take wife and friends's side of story that my son was trying to kidnap the baby and in doing so assaulted the two women. Son gets arrested and the rest is history.

How can a man looking out for the welfare of his son, who his drunk wife has co care whatsoever get the raw end of the deal.

So now if this ends up in a family court case, knifey wifey has a trumped up trump DVO card.

And on this debate of % of men vs women perpetrators...my father was an ambulance officer for 30 yrs with countless calls out to DV events. He says that it's pretty much an even split as to the perps, with alcohol a correlation in 80% of cases. Not just drunk at the time either, the following day's hangover was prime-time for DV events to occur. This only accounts for violent DV, not the DV of psychological warfare.
Also the biggest threat he ever faced was at a DV call out, turns out a husband had been stabbed, then out of nowhere as he's stemming the blood flow, the wife charges him with a 30cm kitchen knife and attempts to stab him in the throat...lucky for him she was drunk and he was fast.

Thats what I have heard from a social worker too

Quote:

..............He says that it's pretty much an even split as to the perps, with alcohol a correlation in 80% of cases. Not just drunk at the time either, the following day's hangover was prime-time for DV events to occur. .......

And that I can vouch first hand...my ex wife was at her worst of DV psychological warfare with a hangover, which was too many days a week.
I'm one of those blokes who spent the second half of a sustantial marriage dealing with an abusive woman, the only thing that kept us together so long was my FIFO career.
Now that we've separated, she has become a truly vengeful woman to the point of stalking me via any means possible, esp social media...that includes trying to bring my wider circle of friends into her fold.
The worst part of all of course is the poisoning of our younger children against me...but what can I do? Sweet FA apart from keeping logs for evidence.

keeping a log is important.
courts run on paperwork
If you arrive with no paperwork and the opposition has paperwork, you will cannot win

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fezz

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #107 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 8:39pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 8:11pm:

fezz wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 7:44pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 6:26pm:

fezz wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 6:23pm:

It's complicated alright...and unbalanced.

Last weekend my son got arrested and put on, as Christian Porter, Minister for Social Services puts it, a 72 hour "cooling off" DVO issued by coppers...the kind that shoot first and ask questions later.

Backstory, son and his wife having marital issues and have a nine month old son.
Wife invited man hating friend over for a drink, which ends up being three bottles of wine (my son is a teetotaler of all drugs so is sober for the event). Wife decides with coercion by friend it's the day to leave the relationship.
Wife packs bag, grabs baby and attempts to leave house and get in drunk friends car, who incidentally has a three year old daughter with her. The plan is to drive 50km of city freeway and suburbs.
Son tries to take baby and keep him safe, gets beaten with frying pan, punched and kicked by both women, and a generous loss of skin due to sharp nails.
He loses that battle...next battle is to get baby out of drunk friends arms as she attempts to put him in back seat of car (her own 3yr old is strapped in ready for the drive). She starts screaming that she is being assaulted, neighbors call cops.
Cops take wife and friends's side of story that my son was trying to kidnap the baby and in doing so assaulted the two women. Son gets arrested and the rest is history.

How can a man looking out for the welfare of his son, who his drunk wife has co care whatsoever get the raw end of the deal.

So now if this ends up in a family court case, knifey wifey has a trumped up trump DVO card.

And on this debate of % of men vs women perpetrators...my father was an ambulance officer for 30 yrs with countless calls out to DV events. He says that it's pretty much an even split as to the perps, with alcohol a correlation in 80% of cases. Not just drunk at the time either, the following day's hangover was prime-time for DV events to occur. This only accounts for violent DV, not the DV of psychological warfare.
Also the biggest threat he ever faced was at a DV call out, turns out a husband had been stabbed, then out of nowhere as he's stemming the blood flow, the wife charges him with a 30cm kitchen knife and attempts to stab him in the throat...lucky for him she was drunk and he was fast.

Thats what I have heard from a social worker too

Quote:

..............He says that it's pretty much an even split as to the perps, with alcohol a correlation in 80% of cases. Not just drunk at the time either, the following day's hangover was prime-time for DV events to occur. .......

And that I can vouch first hand...my ex wife was at her worst of DV psychological warfare with a hangover, which was too many days a week.
I'm one of those blokes who spent the second half of a sustantial marriage dealing with an abusive woman, the only thing that kept us together so long was my FIFO career.
Now that we've separated, she has become a truly vengeful woman to the point of stalking me via any means possible, esp social media...that includes trying to bring my wider circle of friends into her fold.
The worst part of all of course is the poisoning of our younger children against me...but what can I do? Sweet FA apart from keeping logs for evidence.

keeping a log is important.
courts run on paperwork
If you arrive with no paperwork and the opposition has paperwork, you will cannot win

Got that well covered.

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fezz

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #108 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 8:54pm

Maqqa wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 7:59pm:

fezz wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 7:44pm:

And that I can vouch first hand...my ex wife was at her worst of DV psychological warfare with a hangover, which was too many days a week.
I'm one of those blokes who spent the second half of a sustantial marriage dealing with an abusive woman, the only thing that kept us together so long was my FIFO career.
Now that we've separated, she has become a truly vengeful woman to the point of stalking me via any means possible, esp social media...that includes trying to bring my wider circle of friends into her fold.
The worst part of all of course is the poisoning of our younger children against me...but what can I do? Sweet FA apart from keeping logs for evidence.

Let me guess - there's little you can do about it and not many people believe you right?

But if it was a man doing this then he's assume to be guilty and she'll get a horde of support behind her?!

Not much I can do apart from keep my dignity and not stoop to her level. Then there are the lies that have been spread about me but that's water off a duck's back, the people that count know the score.

I'm sure if I was the one sending messages blatantly stating that I would never leave her in peace, ensure that if she found a new partner I would ensure the relationship failed...I think I'd have a DVO slapped on me quick smart.
But it's a little different for women it seems, the above are some of the less aggressive messages I've received and, after having a chat to the relevant authorities I was told to get more evidence...even though I've got a trail of text messages that prove the point.

Double standards rule supreme.

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Emma

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #109 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 8:56pm

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 6:00am:

Because DV (and child abuse by the way) was not reported 40 years ago, some think that an increase in reporting is just that...

Curious logic.

The increase in reporting is of itself misleading, it was the original acceptance that we have a social problem that lead to reporting being available.

Now, since there was no reporting previously, then we can't actually say empirically the problem has gotten better or worse - there is no comparative data. Therefore, the only thing we can truly say is that we (society) have a significant problem with violent behaviour in general and, disturbingly, we have a number of the population who seemingly think that it's ok to inflict said violence against woman and children.

I don't think we are any where near resolving said problems either.

As challenging as it might be for many, I honestly think we need to take gender out of the solution focus. I am not trying to dismiss the seriousness of male on female (and or child) physical abuse here, but, there are increasing statistics that demonstrate quite clearly that there are no exclusions as to who can be a victim at any given time. Further, the behaviours defined as abusive are, quite clearly, able to be demonstrated by men, women and (some) children...

A sub culture is slowly building underneath our current practices for addressing issues of violence - the us v them culture (whether it be man vs woman, old vs young, adult vs child etc). It seems we are, in effect, picking exactly the wrong fight with exactly the wrong people.

Further, since we are experiencing entrenched behaviour in many instances there is not going to be an instant fix that is all touchy feely good... That's just not going to happen.

It seems to me that we (society) need to decide exactly how and when we are prepared to use, accept and rely on violent behaviour, or, conversely if we are not. I for one have often advocated including Martial Arts into the school curriculum. Not because it will make people more violent, it will improve their chances of coping far more when low lives decide to act violently towards them though.

Sad but true, violence is a part of our nature - human nature, some have better self regulation than others, as such, all should be prepared for individuals at times to "let it all hang out" very inappropriately and be equipped to help themselves.

Presently, I think anti violence, child protection etc etc etc, certainly mean well, but are inneffective, entirely because of the adversarial us vs them nature of the debate.

I don't agree with men hitting woman, woman hitting woman, women hitting men, men or women hitting children, controlling behaviours, mental/emotional abuse, over reacting to a heated discussion, manipulation and the list goes on, BUT I totally accept there is a chance they are choices that ANY of us can make at any given moment if we are presented with the right amount of triggers for us to consider it ok to negatively impact on another individuals life...

Yes, indeed it is complicated - that is the life and society that WE have created, accepted and continue to support.

Pretty much agree with that Phd... gender is only an issue because equality doesn't exist between humans on this planet. .

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fezz Senior Member Offline Where's my red hat? Posts: 280 Gender:	Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated Reply #110 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 8:57pm This trailer to a new doco coming out soon might be interesting.
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fezz

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #111 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 9:09pm

Emma wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 8:56pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 6:00am:

Because DV (and child abuse by the way) was not reported 40 years ago, some think that an increase in reporting is just that...

Curious logic.

The increase in reporting is of itself misleading, it was the original acceptance that we have a social problem that lead to reporting being available.

Now, since there was no reporting previously, then we can't actually say empirically the problem has gotten better or worse - there is no comparative data. Therefore, the only thing we can truly say is that we (society) have a significant problem with violent behaviour in general and, disturbingly, we have a number of the population who seemingly think that it's ok to inflict said violence against woman and children.

I don't think we are any where near resolving said problems either.

As challenging as it might be for many, I honestly think we need to take gender out of the solution focus. I am not trying to dismiss the seriousness of male on female (and or child) physical abuse here, but, there are increasing statistics that demonstrate quite clearly that there are no exclusions as to who can be a victim at any given time. Further, the behaviours defined as abusive are, quite clearly, able to be demonstrated by men, women and (some) children...

A sub culture is slowly building underneath our current practices for addressing issues of violence - the us v them culture (whether it be man vs woman, old vs young, adult vs child etc). It seems we are, in effect, picking exactly the wrong fight with exactly the wrong people.

Further, since we are experiencing entrenched behaviour in many instances there is not going to be an instant fix that is all touchy feely good... That's just not going to happen.

It seems to me that we (society) need to decide exactly how and when we are prepared to use, accept and rely on violent behaviour, or, conversely if we are not. I for one have often advocated including Martial Arts into the school curriculum. Not because it will make people more violent, it will improve their chances of coping far more when low lives decide to act violently towards them though.

Sad but true, violence is a part of our nature - human nature, some have better self regulation than others, as such, all should be prepared for individuals at times to "let it all hang out" very inappropriately and be equipped to help themselves.

Presently, I think anti violence, child protection etc etc etc, certainly mean well, but are inneffective, entirely because of the adversarial us vs them nature of the debate.

I don't agree with men hitting woman, woman hitting woman, women hitting men, men or women hitting children, controlling behaviours, mental/emotional abuse, over reacting to a heated discussion, manipulation and the list goes on, BUT I totally accept there is a chance they are choices that ANY of us can make at any given moment if we are presented with the right amount of triggers for us to consider it ok to negatively impact on another individuals life...

Yes, indeed it is complicated - that is the life and society that WE have created, accepted and continue to support.

Pretty much agree with that Phd... gender is only an issue because equality doesn't exist between humans on this planet. .

+1

With the sheer complexity of the human character there never will be an end to DV.

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Emma

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #112 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 9:58pm

I'd like to think that it is possible to significantly reduce, if not eradicate, DV in our society.

But it won't happen overnight.. and it will only be possible if we are all willing to acknowledge and recognise, honestly, DV as the scourge that it is... whomever the perpetrator.

The blame game doesn't cut it.
No one should feel enabled to abuse their fellow human. People should, in their hearts , accept all living beings as equal, and know and respect what is right, and seek to travel the true path.

Sadly our society fails in all respects.

I think we are ALL in for a big shake-up.

Don't know what it'll be, but so far, ISIS is doing a pretty effective job of gathering like-minded psychos to their bloody free-for-all. An example of the hubris of power and the desire for control. Like some controlling men, they MUST win, at any cost.

See,, I am likening DV perps to terrorists. Terrorists in their own homes. How sad is that. Sad

Only they are cowards, these DV perps. They usually abuse and kill those weaker than themselves.

As to the vids by Aussie (?) earlier..? so irrelevant to DV as to be alarming. It becomes full-on misogyny.

Only someone with a very poor self image, and esteem,, would bother with being upset by those types like those depicted. Poor boys,, you felt your manhood was threatened.
Grin

How pathetic it is.. SHAME on you . Women are human beings ! Do you get that.? They might get pissed off now and then.. just like you do. They CAN and WILL let you know about it.

If you feel so badly about yourselves that your only recourses are fleeing, or flogging, then you've got some really serious problems, which you would feel better about, if you sought therapy for your anger rage and resentment.

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« Last Edit: Nov 26^th, 2015 at 10:04pm by Emma »

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #113 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 10:21pm

Much of the content of the posts here hits upon the REAL problem - the one that I assert is the root cause of the ESCALATION of violence between men and women.....

That is:-

The current idea that 'domestic' or 'relationship' violence is ONLY about men beating women.

I've discussed this enough times by now to state clearly that the fact of using the concept of 'men perpetrator - women victim' is one of the root causes of this escalation - particularly when the facts speak otherwise.

Until a bi-lateral discussion and solution are even sought (sic)......... I can only foresee an ongoing escalation in the violence that the violence of the courts and often police claim to be seeking to resolve. Continuing to attack men without rhyme or reason is only going to make matters worse - not least for the simple reason that attacking an innocent man to prevent the possibility of violence IS itself violence, and can have only one result - escalation.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #114 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 10:23pm

Emma wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 9:58pm:

I'd like to think that it is possible to significantly reduce, if not eradicate, DV in our society.

But it won't happen overnight.. and it will only be possible if we are all willing to acknowledge and recognise, honestly, DV as the scourge that it is... whomever the perpetrator.

The blame game doesn't cut it.
No one should feel enabled to abuse their fellow human. People should, in their hearts , accept all living beings as equal, and know and respect what is right, and seek to travel the true path.

Sadly our society fails in all respects.

I think we are ALL in for a big shake-up.

Don't know what it'll be, but so far, ISIS is doing a pretty effective job of gathering like-minded psychos to their bloody free-for-all. An example of the hubris of power and the desire for control. Like some controlling men, they MUST win, at any cost.

See,, I am likening DV perps to terrorists. Terrorists in their own homes. How sad is that. Sad

Only they are cowards, these DV perps. They usually abuse and kill those weaker than themselves.

As to the vids by Aussie (?) earlier..? so irrelevant to DV as to be alarming. It becomes full-on misogyny.

Only someone with a very poor self image, and esteem,, would bother with being upset by those types like those depicted. Poor boys,, you felt your manhood was threatened.
Grin

How pathetic it is.. SHAME on you . Women are human beings ! Do you get that.? They might get pissed off now and then.. just like you do. They CAN and WILL let you know about it.

If you feel so badly about yourselves that your only recourses are fleeing, or flogging, then you've got some really serious problems, which you would feel better about, if you sought therapy for your anger rage and resentment.

A very fair comment..... for the rest... hmmm.. anecdotal perhaps?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #115 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 10:26pm

fezz wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 7:46pm:

Aussie wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 7:33pm:

So.......they told the women, alleged victims of violence, to stay exactly where the alleged offender was, and they (Cops) left the scene.

Makes no sense to me.

No, my son was arrested and taken down town. Then told he could not go back to the house for 72 hours or he would be in breach of the DVO.

Was he charged with anything?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated Reply #116 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 10:44pm Does anyone know if a DVO shows up in your police check? If so - then a malicious spouse can affect your future employment
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #117 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 10:58pm

Maqqa wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 10:44pm:

Does anyone know if a DVO shows up in your police check?

If so - then a malicious spouse can affect your future employment

Quite likely - but where it does show up is in the CNI system - I used to monitor police radio and there was always a comment when a vehicle called in a suspect with rego or whatever.... "Go to the back channel"....

If the registered owner of the vehicle had any notation on CNI - the vehicle and the operator would discuss it on a non-official (read unrecorded) channel. Easy to see that a 'woman basher' would get first class treatment at a road stop..... and be left wondering why he was suddenly a criminal... the 'usual suspect' things such as 'assault police' (no proof), etc...

Many people have a lot to learn about policing and how many 'officers' carry it out.

Fortunately that kind are being weeded out... but some still remain.....

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fezz

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #118 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 11:06pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 10:26pm:

fezz wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 7:46pm:

Aussie wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 7:33pm:

So.......they told the women, alleged victims of violence, to stay exactly where the alleged offender was, and they (Cops) left the scene.

Makes no sense to me.

No, my son was arrested and taken down town. Then told he could not go back to the house for 72 hours or he would be in breach of the DVO.

Was he charged with anything?

His wife initially charged him with assault but withdrew the charge 48 hours into the 72 hour time frame.
The wife's friend on the other hand still has him up for assault.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #119 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 11:18pm

fezz wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 11:06pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 10:26pm:

fezz wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 7:46pm:

Aussie wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 7:33pm:

So.......they told the women, alleged victims of violence, to stay exactly where the alleged offender was, and they (Cops) left the scene.

Makes no sense to me.

No, my son was arrested and taken down town. Then told he could not go back to the house for 72 hours or he would be in breach of the DVO.

Was he charged with anything?

His wife initially charged him with assault but withdrew the charge 48 hours into the 72 hour time frame.
The wife's friend on the other hand still has him up for assault.

Hmm - if the story stacks up he should not be found guilty... but you know how that works....

Funny how a non-victim can become the victim when it suits the powers-that-be to oppress a specified social group.

I've compared this with the NAZI idea that a Jew was a criminal for being a Jew and thus an enemy of the German People, and any German had a right to self-defend against a Jew since a Jew was automatically an enemy of the German and thus was the aggressor by being a Jew.

Ring any bells?

My great-great German grandparents were Jews. They had the sense to leave Germany so that their descendants could be treated the same once 'civilisation' caught up with us out here in No Man's Land of Australia.... the social science testing ground for the entire world......

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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