Australian Politics Forum - Domestic violence

Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated Reply #60 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 12:42pm red baron wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 12:37pm: It is NEVER o.k. to hit a woman, no matter what triggers are being pressed...NEVER!!!!!! Correct! Well said Mr Baron.
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Aussie

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #61 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 12:53pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 12:21pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 9:16am:

So it's OK to hit a woman if she repeatedly hits your triggers?

Only a convicted perpetrator would answer yes to that question and pathetically attempt to use statute law to protect him from facing the reality of his sick and twisted mind.

I gave the answer as 'yeas,' (technically) but I am not a convicted perpetrator seeking in whatever manner that statute law protect me, and I do not have a sick or twisted mind, so, quite self evidently, your post is, yet again, horseshit. Will that ever cease?

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38859 Gender:	Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated Reply #62 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 12:54pm red baron wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 12:37pm: It is NEVER o.k. to hit a woman, no matter what triggers are being pressed...NEVER!!!!!! Is it okay to shoot and kill them? Beat the crap out of them? Link.
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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated Reply #63 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 1:04pm Lisa Jones wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 12:42pm: red baron wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 12:37pm: It is NEVER o.k. to hit a woman, no matter what triggers are being pressed...NEVER!!!!!! Correct! Well said Mr Baron. PS. There are a lot of baiters in here today Mr Baron.
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #64 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 1:22pm

'convicted'? Under the current regime in which 'guilt' is accorded on the basis of the feelings of the complainant? And in a civil matter which is not a 'conviction' anyway but is supposed to be keeping the peace by breaking the Law?

I think some here need to get their thinking straight. The very vast majority of 'incidents' of domestic violence involve no violence whatsoever, as clearly shown by the reality that NSW Police in 2010-11 responded to 300,000+ callouts for DV and only laid charges in less than 5000.

The allocation of an 'order' by a court is in no way proof of any violence having occurred - rather - when handed down in isolation - it is proof positive that NO violence has occurred and thus is itself an abrogation of Law.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #65 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 1:26pm

BTW 'hitting the triggers'/'pushing the buttons' is NOT the same as a man defending self from personal physical attack. Again, many here need to get their minds right on the issues of FAMILY violence, and accept that violence is not acceptable from either woman or man or child. Once we reach that starting point, we may make some headway in this seemingly endless dispute.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/

"Objectives. We sought to examine the prevalence of reciprocal (i.e., perpetrated by both partners) and nonreciprocal intimate partner violence and to determine whether reciprocity is related to violence frequency and injury.

Methods. We analyzed data on young US adults aged 18 to 28 years from the 2001 National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which contained information about partner violence and injury reported by 11 370 respondents on 18761 heterosexual relationships.

Results. Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half (49.7%) of those were reciprocally violent. In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases. Reciprocity was associated with more frequent violence among women (adjusted odds ratio [AOR]=2.3; 95% confidence interval [CI]=1.9, 2.8), but not men (AOR=1.26; 95% CI=0.9, 1.7). Regarding injury, men were more likely to inflict injury than were women (AOR=1.3; 95% CI=1.1, 1.5), and reciprocal intimate partner violence was associated with greater injury than was nonreciprocal intimate partner violence regardless of the gender of the perpetrator (AOR=4.4; 95% CI=3.6, 5.5).

Conclusions. The context of the violence (reciprocal vs nonreciprocal) is a strong predictor of reported injury. Prevention approaches that address the escalation of partner violence may be needed to address reciprocal violence."

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #66 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 2:36pm

I don't prescribe to "it's not okay to hit women under ANY circumstances"

The current laws will jail people of assault. The law also allow you to defend yourself if you are assaulted

If a woman assault a man - she need to understand there's a chance she will be hit back.

Society should not teach our female children that it's okay to hit male and rely on "it's not okay for men to hit women"

Women want equality but they also want exemptions for violence?

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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mothra

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #67 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 2:43pm

Maqqa wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 2:36pm:

I don't prescribe to "it's not okay to hit women under ANY circumstances"

The current laws will jail people of assault. The law also allow you to defend yourself if you are assaulted

If a woman assault a man - she need to understand there's a chance she will be hit back.

Society should not teach our female children that it's okay to hit male and rely on "it's not okay for men to hit women"

Women want equality but they also want exemptions for violence?

You;ve described 2 scenarios there Maqqa; self defence and retaliation.

It is always appropriate to defend yourself with reasonable force.

When is retaliation ok?

As for women wanting equality but not wanting to be hit, you need to think about the playing field. Men are, usually, considerably bigger and stronger than women. That is not to say a woman cant deliver a good hit but the chances are if a man then hits a woman in return, he is likely to do much more damage than she did. That is why it is not ok to hit women. It's just not good to wallop someone smaller than you.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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cods

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #68 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 2:59pm

we work in mysterious ways.. Roll Eyes

women are trained in selfdefence...

if a guy laid a hand on you in the street it is ok to strike him in the groin or with a highheeled shoe..even toss him over your shoulder if you are able..

yep its called self defence..

if she hits back at a bulling husband. she can be charged with DOMESTIC VIOLENCE...

there are so many forms of D.V. control is another biggie and that is quite often where it all begins...

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cods

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #69 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 3:01pm

Aussie wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 11:27am:

mothra wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 10:16am:

Aussie wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 10:03am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 9:16am:

So it's OK to hit a woman if she repeatedly hits your triggers?

Perhaps more accurate to say that the Law (in Qld) provides that provocation is a defence to assault, so from a technical point of view, the answer to that question is yeas.

You sure about that Aussie? You are saying that it is legal for a man to hit a woman if she irritates him enough? I don't think that it is.

Bear in mind that most of these provocations stem from not having dinner on time, talking to other men, talking back and other such human behaviours that are considered unacceptable to anyone not trying to 'own' somebody else.

Yeas, I'm sure about that. I do not post misleading crap like at least one person who claims expert knowledge here does.

Quote:

CRIMINAL CODE 1899 - SECT 269
269 Defence of provocation

(1) A person is not criminally responsible for an assault committed upon a person who gives the person provocation for the assault, if the person is in fact deprived by the provocation of the power of self-control, and acts upon it on the sudden and before there is time for the person's passion to cool, and if the force used is not disproportionate to the provocation and is not intended, and is not such as is likely, to cause death or grievous bodily harm.

(2) Whether any particular act or insult is such as to be likely to deprive an ordinary person of the power of self-control and to induce the ordinary person to assault the person by whom the act or insult is done or offered, and whether, in any particular case, the person provoked was actually deprived by the provocation of the power of self-control, and whether any force used is or is not disproportionate to the provocation, are questions of fact.

1899.... only in Qld..

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #70 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 3:18pm

mothra wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 2:43pm:

Maqqa wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 2:36pm:

I don't prescribe to "it's not okay to hit women under ANY circumstances"

The current laws will jail people of assault. The law also allow you to defend yourself if you are assaulted

If a woman assault a man - she need to understand there's a chance she will be hit back.

Society should not teach our female children that it's okay to hit male and rely on "it's not okay for men to hit women"

Women want equality but they also want exemptions for violence?

You;ve described 2 scenarios there Maqqa; self defence and retaliation.

It is always appropriate to defend yourself with reasonable force.

When is retaliation ok?

As for women wanting equality but not wanting to be hit, you need to think about the playing field. Men are, usually, considerably bigger and stronger than women. That is not to say a woman cant deliver a good hit but the chances are if a man then hits a woman in return, he is likely to do much more damage than she did. That is why it is not ok to hit women. It's just not good to wallop someone smaller than you.

I sent my daughter to Tae Kwon Do lessons - no man hits her.. then there's her eighteen stone Rugby captain brother.. then there's her mean old man........ then there's her cross dresser best friend who'd clobber any bloke who hit her.... beyond that all her male cousins are between 6'4" and 6'6" and can be mean if pushed.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75191 Gender:	Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated Reply #71 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 3:22pm Domestic violence - it's complicated no it's not ... it's actually quite simple. YOU DON'T HIT .... EVER.
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Aussie

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #72 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 3:23pm

cods wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 2:59pm:

we work in mysterious ways.. Roll Eyes

women are trained in selfdefence...

if a guy laid a hand on you in the street it is ok to strike him in the groin or with a highheeled shoe..even toss him over your shoulder if you are able..

yep its called self defence..

if she hits back at a bulling husband. she can be charged with DOMESTIC VIOLENCE...

there are so many forms of D.V. control is another biggie and that is quite often where it all begins...

Or, if she is a bullying, nagging violent woman...he deals with it himself. All sorted, and no need to waste the hard pressed resources of the Cops. (Mind you, why he'd live with such a bitch is way beyond me.)

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #73 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 3:26pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 3:18pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 2:43pm:

Maqqa wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 2:36pm:

I don't prescribe to "it's not okay to hit women under ANY circumstances"

The current laws will jail people of assault. The law also allow you to defend yourself if you are assaulted

If a woman assault a man - she need to understand there's a chance she will be hit back.

Society should not teach our female children that it's okay to hit male and rely on "it's not okay for men to hit women"

Women want equality but they also want exemptions for violence?

You;ve described 2 scenarios there Maqqa; self defence and retaliation.

It is always appropriate to defend yourself with reasonable force.

When is retaliation ok?

As for women wanting equality but not wanting to be hit, you need to think about the playing field. Men are, usually, considerably bigger and stronger than women. That is not to say a woman cant deliver a good hit but the chances are if a man then hits a woman in return, he is likely to do much more damage than she did. That is why it is not ok to hit women. It's just not good to wallop someone smaller than you.

I sent my daughter to Tae Kwon Do lessons - no man hits her.. then there's her eighteen stone Rugby captain brother.. then there's her mean old man........ then there's her cross dresser best friend who'd clobber any bloke who hit her.... beyond that all her male cousins are between 6'4" and 6'6" and can be mean if pushed.

Good. All girls could benefit from a little self defence IMO.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Domestic violence - it's complicated
Reply #74 - Nov 26^th, 2015 at 3:45pm

John Smith wrote on Nov 26^th, 2015 at 3:22pm:

Domestic violence - it's complicated

no it's not ... it's actually quite simple.

YOU DON'T HIT .... EVER.

You're right.

I wasn't going to post this...but your comment has made me think that I should.

I went to uni with a really nice guy. We were both in our late teens when he asked me out. It was an ok date....we went back to his mum n dad's place afterwards to finish off some group project.

That's when the impact of DV hit me hard (pun not intended).

I met his mum n dad who were in their late 60's. I immediately knew something wasn't quite right.

Anyway, as we chatted quietly away in his room.... he finally fessed that his parents were in fact his grandparents. His mum's parents.

So I asked about his real mum and dad.

The poor guy told me about how he came home from (primary) school to find his real mum n dad arguing loudly in the kitchen. His dad hit his mum hard causing her to fall against the sharp corner of a table or cupboard. He then fled the scene.

This kid was left to call 000 and try and wake up his mum. She died in that kitchen because of just 1 blow.

He and his baby brother were then handed over by DOCS to his Mum's parents to rear.

I felt sorry for the guy....for the whole family.

I never dated him after that.

It was all too much for me to handle back then.

Where are these 2 boys today?

One is seriously clinically depressed .....and the younger brother is dead (suicided).

So yeah.....please don't hit a woman. You don't know how the scenario will finish.

One thing's for sure, it will definitely be tragic for everyone concerned.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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