Australian Politics Forum - Indonesia Protests Boat Push Back

John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75080 Gender:	Re: Indonesia Protests Boat Push Back Reply #75 - Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:08pm Maqqa wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:07pm: Never opposed to asylum seekers. Those who patiently wait inline and not complain you don't have to be a UN signatory to take them in ... and you remove the biggest pull factor bringing boat people here.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Indonesia Protests Boat Push Back
Reply #76 - Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:09pm

Maqqa wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:07pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 3:52pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 3:44pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 2:02pm:

The pull factor and the only reason asylum seekers are in Indonesia is the fact Australia is a signatory to the refugee convention....Remove our signature from the convention and the problem would be solved..

I've never understood why the libs, who were so opposed to asylum seekers, didn't do just that! It doesn't make sense that they ignore the convention and still remain party to it.

I'd look really bad if we withdrew form the Convention. We only maintain our signature to save face. We're in the process of trying to schmooze the UN.

The kicker is, we are losing it by degrees for our treatment of asylum seekers.

Never opposed to asylum seekers. Those who patiently wait inline and not complain

Just opposed to country shoppers, queue jumpers, verification avoidance and those who wilfully try to take advantage of Australia's generosity

There is no queue that one joins, in order to become an asylum seeker.

You have been misinformed.

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Dnarever

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Re: Indonesia Protests Boat Push Back
Reply #77 - Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:40pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:09pm:

Maqqa wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:07pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 3:52pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 3:44pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 2:02pm:

The pull factor and the only reason asylum seekers are in Indonesia is the fact Australia is a signatory to the refugee convention....Remove our signature from the convention and the problem would be solved..

I've never understood why the libs, who were so opposed to asylum seekers, didn't do just that! It doesn't make sense that they ignore the convention and still remain party to it.

I'd look really bad if we withdrew form the Convention. We only maintain our signature to save face. We're in the process of trying to schmooze the UN.

The kicker is, we are losing it by degrees for our treatment of asylum seekers.

Never opposed to asylum seekers. Those who patiently wait inline and not complain

Just opposed to country shoppers, queue jumpers, verification avoidance and those who wilfully try to take advantage of Australia's generosity

There is no queue that one joins, in order to become an asylum seeker.

You have been misinformed.

Doesn't it start at Australia's front door ?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Indonesia Protests Boat Push Back
Reply #78 - Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:48pm

Dnarever wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:40pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:09pm:

Maqqa wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:07pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 3:52pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 3:44pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 2:02pm:

The pull factor and the only reason asylum seekers are in Indonesia is the fact Australia is a signatory to the refugee convention....Remove our signature from the convention and the problem would be solved..

I've never understood why the libs, who were so opposed to asylum seekers, didn't do just that! It doesn't make sense that they ignore the convention and still remain party to it.

I'd look really bad if we withdrew form the Convention. We only maintain our signature to save face. We're in the process of trying to schmooze the UN.

The kicker is, we are losing it by degrees for our treatment of asylum seekers.

Never opposed to asylum seekers. Those who patiently wait inline and not complain

Just opposed to country shoppers, queue jumpers, verification avoidance and those who wilfully try to take advantage of Australia's generosity

There is no queue that one joins, in order to become an asylum seeker.

You have been misinformed.

Doesn't it start at Australia's front door ?

No.

There's no front door, or back door.

No queue, and no illegal activity.

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mariacostel

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Re: Indonesia Protests Boat Push Back
Reply #79 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:17am

mothra wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 1:13pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 12:26pm:

Dnarever wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 6:28pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 6:17pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 6:02pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 5:59pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 5:52pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 5:37pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 5:12pm:

double plus good wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 5:08pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 5:04pm:

double plus good wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 5:01pm:

Indonesia should be wondering how boat loads of foreigners seem to be able to set sail out of Indonesian ports and go wherever they want. Then again, I believe they know exactly what's going on. Who cares if Indonesia is upset.

Yes indeed Double. Why should we worry if our closest neighbour is upset with us?

Be fair Mothra. Shouldn't you be criticizing Indonesia for letting boatloads of men , women and children floundering out of their ports while overloaded and then sinking??? What sort of country let's that happen?

My problems with Indonesia and human rights are extensive. What has that got to do with us needing a working diplomatic relationship with them?

'relationship' is not defined as agreeing to everything they ask for. They are happy to take our aid and anything else we give them but suddenly, when we want something - like commutation of a death sentence - it is all too hard.

They need to learn how to give and take instead of just take.

I repeat, my problems with Indonesia and human rights are extensive but how does that equate to Indonesia not having the right to protest about being forced to deal with our rejects?

OUR rejects??? It is in fact THEIR rejects.

And their right to protest is not being questioned, nor is our right to reject their protests.

Turned back from Australian waters. Our rejects.

As usual, you are a stupid person as only a truly stupid person would say something so monumentally... stupid.

Are you trying to say they were not turned back from Australian waters - in fact they were probably on the beach.

Why would you accuse someone making a correct statement of being stupid ?

It is obvious were the stupid statement lay.

How do illegals who left from ANOTHER country become our 'rejects'? They get sent back to where the belong. You can argue the meaning of 'reject' all you like, but the point it that they are NOT our people. They are Indonesia's and they are getting them back.

a) They're not illegals.

b) They were in Australian territory which makes them our problem, rightly.

c) They are not Indonesia's people.

A) committing an illegal act - entering without permision - makes one illegal BY DEFINITION
B) if someone breaks into your home illegally do they then become your problem or do you call the police to come and remove them? Same will illegal entry to a country
C) They were living in indonesia. Again, by definition they are indonesia's people.

Wow... you got EVERYTHING wrong.

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mariacostel

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Re: Indonesia Protests Boat Push Back
Reply #80 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:20am

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 2:28pm:

lee wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 2:04pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 2:02pm:

.Australia would no longer be offering false hope and save billions of dollars in the process!!!

Don't you think the boat turnbacks, deny hope?

No because they place the burden on Indonesia and the boats keep coming....Removing our name from the refugee convention removes all doubt that Australia will accept asylum seekers arriving on our shores....As far as I am concerned it is the only solution with the current political situation in this country....If someone has an alternative as to why this would not work please post your reasons???

Huh

Do you seriously think any refugees come here because of a UN document? They want to come here because we are a rich first-world country. That is all.

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mariacostel

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Re: Indonesia Protests Boat Push Back
Reply #81 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:21am

Maqqa wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:07pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 3:52pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 3:44pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 2:02pm:

The pull factor and the only reason asylum seekers are in Indonesia is the fact Australia is a signatory to the refugee convention....Remove our signature from the convention and the problem would be solved..

I've never understood why the libs, who were so opposed to asylum seekers, didn't do just that! It doesn't make sense that they ignore the convention and still remain party to it.

I'd look really bad if we withdrew form the Convention. We only maintain our signature to save face. We're in the process of trying to schmooze the UN.

The kicker is, we are losing it by degrees for our treatment of asylum seekers.

Never opposed to asylum seekers. Those who patiently wait inline and not complain

Just opposed to country shoppers, queue jumpers, verification avoidance and those who wilfully try to take advantage of Australia's generosity

Exactly. Our UN obligations under the convention is NOT to simply take anyone and everyone that arrives by any means. We take them in an orderly process on the queue that everyone says does not exist and yet exists just the same.

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Dnarever

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Re: Indonesia Protests Boat Push Back
Reply #82 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:26am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:17am:

A) committing an illegal act - entering without permision - makes one illegal BY DEFINITION
B) if someone breaks into your home illegally do they then become your problem or do you call the police to come and remove them? Same will illegal entry to a country
C) They were living in indonesia. Again, by definition they are indonesia's people.

Wow... you got EVERYTHING wrong.

A) committing an illegal act - entering without permision - makes one illegal BY DEFINITION

We have signed an agreement which allows refugees to arrive to be processed. It is in no way illegal for a refugee to come to Australia and ask for asylum.

C) They were living in indonesia. Again, by definition they are indonesia's people.

They are not recognised in Indonesia and have no status there. They are considered as illegal in Indonesia and Indonesia are not a signatory to the convention. i.e. they really are illegal there. Indonesia is not a place that refugees can either settle or be adequately processed.

The people we sent to Indonesia are not Indonesian residents or nationals, they have no status at all in Indonesia. Once they reach Australia and ask for refugee status we have an obligation to help them.

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philperth2010

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Re: Indonesia Protests Boat Push Back
Reply #83 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:31am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:20am:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 2:28pm:

lee wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 2:04pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 2:02pm:

.Australia would no longer be offering false hope and save billions of dollars in the process!!!

Don't you think the boat turnbacks, deny hope?

No because they place the burden on Indonesia and the boats keep coming....Removing our name from the refugee convention removes all doubt that Australia will accept asylum seekers arriving on our shores....As far as I am concerned it is the only solution with the current political situation in this country....If someone has an alternative as to why this would not work please post your reasons???

Huh

Do you seriously think any refugees come here because of a UN document? They want to come here because we are a rich first-world country. That is all.

If you seriously think asylum seekers are not coming here because we signed the refugee convention then what is the problem with removing our signature from the document....At least then we would not be hypocrites and there would be no chance of asylum seekers ever being settled here unless we want them....I also do not care much for your opinion....Post a link to any research that supports your claim refugees do not seek out signature countries to the convention to support your claim!!!

Huh

http://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/australia-and-1951-refugee-convention

http://theconversation.com/explainer-australias-obligations-under-the-un-refugee...

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Indonesia Protests Boat Push Back
Reply #84 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:37am

mariacostel wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 1:51pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 1:46pm:

Maqqa wrote on Nov 28^th, 2015 at 1:23pm:

Since 2013 - there's been one or at best 2 boats

Under Labor/Greens 55,000+ illegals and hundreds died

Since 2013 there's been dozens of boats.

Under Liberal 60,000+ asylum seekers, and thousands have died.

And under Labor there were 500,000 asylum seekers and 50,000 deaths.

See, I can make up figures like you just did.

We know, because aborigines only arrived in Australia 4000 years ago. Because you know, it's the closest 10,000th to 40,000.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 139146 Gender:	Re: Indonesia Protests Boat Push Back Reply #85 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:44am mariacostel wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:17am: A) committing an illegal act - entering without permision - makes one illegal BY DEFINITION So, you call thieves "illegals", do you? Murderers - you call them "illegals" too? Interesting.
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mariacostel

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Re: Indonesia Protests Boat Push Back
Reply #86 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 8:48am

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:31am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:20am:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 2:28pm:

lee wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 2:04pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 2:02pm:

.Australia would no longer be offering false hope and save billions of dollars in the process!!!

Don't you think the boat turnbacks, deny hope?

No because they place the burden on Indonesia and the boats keep coming....Removing our name from the refugee convention removes all doubt that Australia will accept asylum seekers arriving on our shores....As far as I am concerned it is the only solution with the current political situation in this country....If someone has an alternative as to why this would not work please post your reasons???

Huh

Do you seriously think any refugees come here because of a UN document? They want to come here because we are a rich first-world country. That is all.

If you seriously think asylum seekers are not coming here because we signed the refugee convention then what is the problem with removing our signature from the document....At least then we would not be hypocrites and there would be no chance of asylum seekers ever being settled here unless we want them....I also do not care much for your opinion....Post a link to any research that supports your claim refugees do not seek out signature countries to the convention to support your claim!!!

Huh

http://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/australia-and-1951-refugee-convention

http://theconversation.com/explainer-australias-obligations-under-the-un-refugee...

It is extraordinarily naive to think that that country shoppers choose australia because of a silly UN convention. They choose this country because of what we have to offer.

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mariacostel

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Re: Indonesia Protests Boat Push Back
Reply #87 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 8:50am

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:44am:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:17am:

A) committing an illegal act - entering without permision - makes one illegal BY DEFINITION

So, you call thieves "illegals", do you?

Murderers - you call them "illegals" too?

Interesting.

You want to contend that thieves are NOT illegal? Or that murderers are not 'illegal? Yes, we have specific terms for these offences but each of them are ILLEGAL.

Wouldn't it be great if your single super-power wasn't pedantry? Then your continued existence might have value.

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mariacostel

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Re: Indonesia Protests Boat Push Back
Reply #88 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 4:03pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:48pm:

Dnarever wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:40pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:09pm:

Maqqa wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:07pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 3:52pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 3:44pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 2:02pm:

The pull factor and the only reason asylum seekers are in Indonesia is the fact Australia is a signatory to the refugee convention....Remove our signature from the convention and the problem would be solved..

I've never understood why the libs, who were so opposed to asylum seekers, didn't do just that! It doesn't make sense that they ignore the convention and still remain party to it.

I'd look really bad if we withdrew form the Convention. We only maintain our signature to save face. We're in the process of trying to schmooze the UN.

The kicker is, we are losing it by degrees for our treatment of asylum seekers.

Never opposed to asylum seekers. Those who patiently wait inline and not complain

Just opposed to country shoppers, queue jumpers, verification avoidance and those who wilfully try to take advantage of Australia's generosity

There is no queue that one joins, in order to become an asylum seeker.

You have been misinformed.

Doesn't it start at Australia's front door ?

No.

There's no front door, or back door.

No queue, and no illegal activity.

Because if 10000 people apply for asylum they are all processed at exactly the same time. The government gets 10,000 staff to interview and review them all on the same day and the 30,000 back office people do the same. Because there is 'no queue'.

Of course there is a queue you daft git.

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mothra

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Re: Indonesia Protests Boat Push Back
Reply #89 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 4:20pm

mariacostel wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 4:03pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:48pm:

Dnarever wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:40pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:09pm:

Maqqa wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:07pm:

mothra wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 3:52pm:

John Smith wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 3:44pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 2:02pm:

The pull factor and the only reason asylum seekers are in Indonesia is the fact Australia is a signatory to the refugee convention....Remove our signature from the convention and the problem would be solved..

I've never understood why the libs, who were so opposed to asylum seekers, didn't do just that! It doesn't make sense that they ignore the convention and still remain party to it.

I'd look really bad if we withdrew form the Convention. We only maintain our signature to save face. We're in the process of trying to schmooze the UN.

The kicker is, we are losing it by degrees for our treatment of asylum seekers.

Never opposed to asylum seekers. Those who patiently wait inline and not complain

Just opposed to country shoppers, queue jumpers, verification avoidance and those who wilfully try to take advantage of Australia's generosity

There is no queue that one joins, in order to become an asylum seeker.

You have been misinformed.

Doesn't it start at Australia's front door ?

No.

There's no front door, or back door.

No queue, and no illegal activity.

Because if 10000 people apply for asylum they are all processed at exactly the same time. The government gets 10,000 staff to interview and review them all on the same day and the 30,000 back office people do the same. Because there is 'no queue'.

Of course there is a queue you daft git.

There is no queue for resettlement via the UNHCR. You have some research to do.

http://www.amnesty.org.au/refugees/comments/22616/

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