Australian Politics Forum - Politics & Religion

Stratos

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Re: Politics & Religion - Australia & Global
Reply #15 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 12:54pm

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 11:14am:

So, if that means rape, murder, War, then that's ok?

Nobody would ever get elected on such a platform. As long as we have a democracy, religion will to a certain extent be part of politics. I don't like that, and think it should be separate, but by choosing to live here I accept that religious people will vote for the occasional nutcase.

Then collectively the rest of Australia will tell them to shove it.

Democracy!

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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perceptions_now

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Re: Politics & Religion - Australia & Global
Reply #16 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 1:12pm

Stratos wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 12:54pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 11:14am:

So, if that means rape, murder, War, then that's ok?

Nobody would ever get elected on such a platform. As long as we have a democracy, religion will to a certain extent be part of politics. I don't like that, and think it should be separate, but by choosing to live here I accept that religious people will vote for the occasional nutcase.

Then collectively the rest of Australia will tell them to shove it.

Democracy!

It's not just Australia that is involved!

How about ISIS?

It's not likely that any Political Party is going to go to an election saying, we will allow church members to rape young children!

But, has it happened & how often are the perpetrators properly dealt with, in OZ or elsewhere?
Unyet, the Political Parties "allow" it to continue, because they don't actively act against it happening!

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Stratos

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Re: Politics & Religion - Australia & Global
Reply #17 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 1:17pm

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 1:12pm:

How about ISIS?

I'm not familiar with their political structure but I somehow doubt it's democratic.

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 1:12pm:

But, has it happened & how often are the perpetrators properly dealt with, in OZ or elsewhere?

You mean people have made it legal to do harmful things? We have the Human Rights Commission so that people can't just change certain laws to suit themselves.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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mariacostel

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Re: Politics & Religion - Australia & Global
Reply #18 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 4:13pm

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 12:49pm:

mariacostel wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 11:23am:

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 29^th, 2015 at 7:40pm:

Firstly, let me state my biases -
1) I am an Atheist!
2) I am NOT a “believer”, in Politicians, from the Right, Left or Centre of politics, although a “select few” may get my nod, from time to time!

That said, I would firmly contend that Religion, ANY RELIGION, should not, must not, be allowed to “mix” with Politics.

AND, UNDER NOT CIRCUMSTANCES, CAN RELIGION, ANY RELIGION, BE ALLOWED TO USE FORCE, EITHER MENTAL OR PHYSICAL, IN ORDER TO BRING CHANGE TO THE POLITICAL ARENA!
IT SHOULD ALSO BE CLEAR THAT POLITICIANS MUST NOT USE RELIGIONS, IN ORDER TO GAIN ANY POLITICAL ADVANTAGE!

Certainly, anyone, any person, any Political &/or Religious organization, using physical force, injuring &/or Killing people, in order to gain any Political &/or Religious advantage/change, should be ostracised Publicly & Legally held accountable & the full weight of Local & Global Laws, should be brought to bear on them, by all concerned parties!

So, whatever the Religion & whatever the Political “leaning”, it’s well past time for Politicians & those in Religious organization's, to STOP THE SPIN, TO STOP DOING THINGS IN THEIR OWN SHORT TERM INTERESTS & START DOING EVERYTHING IN THE BEST, LONG TERM INTEREST OF THE WHOLE COUNTRY & INDEED THE ENTIRE PLANET!!!

That statement is naive as well as very wrong. To presume to enforce a disconnect between religion and politics is to demand that a particularly viewpoint ie religious be not permitted in public discussion. This is discriminatory at the core. Religion is a defining aspect of many people's lives and since democracy is about representing ALL people's beleifs and opinions, the call to essentially ban religion in public life is undemocratic as well as offensive.

You are entitled to demand that religion does not run roughshod over majority opinion, but you are not entitled to demand that religion be silenced.

You are quite wrong in your post.

So Longy, no doubt you are “a believer” in your particular Religion & Political party and you would have them as doing everything correctly?

Unfortunately, it is very likely that your Religion & your Political Party is “far from perfect” & they have actually been involved in wrong doings!

There is a saying that relates “to the separation of Church & State” AND WE WOULD BE WELL ADVISED TO TAKE HEED & IMPLEMENT THAT SAYING.

In fact, Religions & Politicians have certainly been involved in a great many wrong doings, including being the catalyst for many wars.

It is about time, We brought an end to such Religious & Political practices, before WE get caught up in the next round of preventable stupidity!

What a load of garbage! As if all the disasters, wars and genocides have been religious! Never heard of Mao, Stalin, POl Pot and the ever infamous Hitler?

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mariacostel

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Re: Politics & Religion - Australia & Global
Reply #19 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 4:15pm

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 1:12pm:

Stratos wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 12:54pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 11:14am:

So, if that means rape, murder, War, then that's ok?

Nobody would ever get elected on such a platform. As long as we have a democracy, religion will to a certain extent be part of politics. I don't like that, and think it should be separate, but by choosing to live here I accept that religious people will vote for the occasional nutcase.

Then collectively the rest of Australia will tell them to shove it.

Democracy!

It's not just Australia that is involved!

How about ISIS?

It's not likely that any Political Party is going to go to an election saying, we will allow church members to rape young children!

But, has it happened & how often are the perpetrators properly dealt with, in OZ or elsewhere?
Unyet, the Political Parties "allow" it to continue, because they don't actively act against it happening!

The irony is that your ID uses the word 'perceptions' as if you are perceptive in some way. This thread actually shows you are really quite ignorant of the real world.

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mariacostel

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Re: Politics & Religion - Australia & Global
Reply #20 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 4:17pm

Stratos wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 1:17pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 1:12pm:

How about ISIS?

I'm not familiar with their political structure but I somehow doubt it's democratic.

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 1:12pm:

But, has it happened & how often are the perpetrators properly dealt with, in OZ or elsewhere?

You mean people have made it legal to do harmful things? We have the Human Rights Commission so that people can't just change certain laws to suit themselves.

Actually, the HRC has no power over legislation at all. Only the parliament can enact and alter laws and the High Court is limited to ruling on their constitutionality. A more accurate point is that parliament tends to not be able to legislate laws just for a single person or body.

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Politics & Religion - Australia & Global Reply #21 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 4:26pm mariacostel wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 4:17pm: A more accurate point is that parliament tends to not be able to legislate laws just for a single person or body. Ah yes, you are correct.
Back to top	Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm: Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act IP Logged

____ Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 33410 Australia Gender:	Re: Politics & Religion - Australia & Global Reply #22 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 4:31pm Not having religion associated with politics sounds like an item from the agenda list of the atheism religion. Catch 22, either path will result in one religion or the other influencing politics.
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Phemanderac

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Re: Politics & Religion - Australia & Global
Reply #23 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 4:39pm

It seems the idea of separation of powers is a solid idea that, unfortunately, is not applied in a solid way - that's human's for you eh?

That's what this seems to be about, no single interest group (whether it be organised religion or a decoupage interest group) should ever be allowed to hold sway politically... Of course though, if said interest groups have the numbers democratically, well then I guess in a democracy they have every right to have sway... The downside is though, that we don't actually have a genuinely democratic system, nor is one necessarily possible. Democracy and corruption will always be bedfellows. A dictator for example does not have to explain or justify decisions made, they just have them implemented for better or worse - less corruption but also less individual rights.

I don't think PN is all that wrong in his thinking. Likewise I understand where Maria is coming from, albeit not terribly well thought out in response, however, I think the point is valid, what about democracy?

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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mariacostel

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Re: Politics & Religion - Australia & Global
Reply #24 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 4:57pm

____ wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 4:31pm:

Not having religion associated with politics sounds like an item from the agenda list of the atheism religion.
Catch 22, either path will result in one religion or the other influencing politics.

The shock is that something so deep and obviously true came from... you.

Many of us may never recover.

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mariacostel

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Re: Politics & Religion - Australia & Global
Reply #25 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 5:00pm

Phemanderac wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 4:39pm:

It seems the idea of separation of powers is a solid idea that, unfortunately, is not applied in a solid way - that's human's for you eh?

That's what this seems to be about, no single interest group (whether it be organised religion or a decoupage interest group) should ever be allowed to hold sway politically... Of course though, if said interest groups have the numbers democratically, well then I guess in a democracy they have every right to have sway... The downside is though, that we don't actually have a genuinely democratic system, nor is one necessarily possible. Democracy and corruption will always be bedfellows. A dictator for example does not have to explain or justify decisions made, they just have them implemented for better or worse - less corruption but also less individual rights.

I don't think PN is all that wrong in his thinking. Likewise I understand where Maria is coming from, albeit not terribly well thought out in response, however, I think the point is valid, what about democracy?

If democracy chose to support a large portion of a religious agenda then the principle of democracy should support it. We do not have any significant examples of any group - religious or union - running the country. Sure, both groups (and others) have strong influence, but if these influences are representative then they are in fact the very core ideals of democracy.

IMperceptive is absolutely wrong on all counts.

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perceptions_now

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Re: Politics & Religion - Australia & Global
Reply #26 - Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:20pm

Sex abuse commission: Melbourne Archdiocese failed to respond to paedophile priests

http://www.smh.com.au/national/sex-abuse-commission-melbourne-archdiocese-failed...
===============================================
How often do we hear of something like the above?

BUT, HOW OFTEN DOES NOTHING HAPPEN!

HOW OFTEN ARE THE OFFENDERS NOT PURSUED FULLY VIA THE LEGAL SYSTEM & THOSE "HIGHER UP" IN THE CHURCH & IN POLITICS, SEEN TO NOT DO ENOUGH, TO ENSURE THE OFFENDERS ARE CONVICTED!?

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mariacostel

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Re: Politics & Religion - Australia & Global
Reply #27 - Dec 1^st, 2015 at 6:45am

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 30^th, 2015 at 7:20pm:

Sex abuse commission: Melbourne Archdiocese failed to respond to paedophile priests

http://www.smh.com.au/national/sex-abuse-commission-melbourne-archdiocese-failed...
===============================================
How often do we hear of something like the above?

BUT, HOW OFTEN DOES NOTHING HAPPEN!

HOW OFTEN ARE THE OFFENDERS NOT PURSUED FULLY VIA THE LEGAL SYSTEM & THOSE "HIGHER UP" IN THE CHURCH & IN POLITICS, SEEN TO NOT DO ENOUGH, TO ENSURE THE OFFENDERS ARE CONVICTED!?

Are you trying to say something of substance or merely vomiting on to the screen? I completely dismantled your argument and others agreed with me.

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perceptions_now

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Re: Politics & Religion - Australia & Global
Reply #28 - Dec 1^st, 2015 at 11:16am

mariacostel wrote on Dec 1^st, 2015 at 6:45am:

[quote author=perceptions_now link=1448790055/26#26 date=1448875206]Sex abuse commission: Melbourne Archdiocese failed to respond to paedophile priests

http://www.smh.com.au/national/sex-abuse-commission-melbourne-archdiocese-failed...
===============================================
How often do we hear of something like the above?

BUT, HOW OFTEN DOES NOTHING HAPPEN!

HOW OFTEN ARE THE OFFENDERS NOT PURSUED FULLY VIA THE LEGAL SYSTEM & THOSE "HIGHER UP" IN THE CHURCH & IN POLITICS, SEEN TO NOT DO ENOUGH, TO ENSURE THE OFFENDERS ARE CONVICTED!?

Are you trying to say something of substance or merely vomiting on to the screen? I completely dismantled your argument and others agreed with me.[/quote]

Really Longy???
So, you agree that Religions should be left alone, no matter what they do???
How about Muslims & the Labor Party, should they be allowed to do what they want or is it only your Church & your Political Party???
Or, is it

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perceptions_now

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Re: Politics & Religion - Australia & Global
Reply #29 - Dec 1^st, 2015 at 10:07pm

Politicians - Can't Trust ANY of them!!!

======================================
'Black lung' disease returns to Queensland mines

The potentially deadly black lung disease has re-emerged in Australian coalmines for the first time in more than three decades.
Queensland Mines Minister Anthony Lynham confirmed in parliament on Tuesday that three cases of pneumoconiosis - or black lung - had been reported by the state's coal industry.
The disease, caused by long-term exposure to fine airborne coal dust in areas with poor ventilation, was thought to have been wiped out in Australia.
Since 1947, X-rays and lung tests have been used to detect early signs of pneumoconiosis.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace-relations/black-lung-disease-returns-to...
============================================
According to the ABC 7.30 Report tonight, legislation controlling air ventilation/dust particles has not been enforced, for quite some time.

Also, despite medical checks back in in early 1980's showing up some 75 miners who may well have contracted the disease, nothing happened, no action was taken.

Finally, despite the 3 recent reported cases, these were only pursued after local checks failed to report any problem & finally a US expert confirmed a Black Lung diagnosis!

As usual, Liberal, Nationals, Labor & the Union will blame everyone, except themselves.

BUT, THE TRUTH IS THEY ALL HAD PRIOR OPPORTUNITY & NONE OF THEM TOOK ANY APPROPRIATE ACTION!!!

Who can WE Trust?
Certainly not Politicians, Religions, Unions, nor their "true believer Supporters"!

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