Australian Politics Forum - Right wing "political correctness"

Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: Right wing "political correctness" Reply #30 - Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 3:59pm It seems to me that we would not need something like "political correctness" if people understood more about respectful behaviour. That's all people before you start!
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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #31 - Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 5:22pm

Cultural Marxism may be a term coined by conservatives/libertarians/non-leftists, but this doesn't mean it's a conspiracy. It goes back to at least Gramsci, where he wanted to undermine and destroy the institutions and foundations of Western civilisation. You can trace this idea through the Frankfurt School, Critical theorists, deconstructionists (where it reaches its peak in Derrida), to today's post-structuralists. Post-structuralism is the dominant paradigm of thought in the academe and intellectual circles.

The term Cultural Marxism is used for two reasons (which are actually interconnected): 1. The old left realised they couldn't overthrow the bourgeois via appealing to the working classes, so they devised other ways of destroying the bourgeois: by subverting cultural institutions and values. 2. The simple paradigm of oppressor/oppressed (bourgeois/proletariat) used by Marx was adopted by Western dissidents, but used for the categories of race/ethnicity and gender/sex, among others.

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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: Right wing "political correctness" Reply #32 - Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 7:28pm Phemanderac wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 3:59pm: It seems to me that we would not need something like "political correctness" if people understood more about respectful behaviour. That's all people before you start! Yes, every individual is different, which is why socialism always fails.
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Bam

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #33 - Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 8:38pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 7:28pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 3:59pm:

It seems to me that we would not need something like "political correctness" if people understood more about respectful behaviour. That's all people before you start!

Yes, every individual is different

Funny then how so many of your posts are full of crap that denies this.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Swagman

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #34 - Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 8:54pm

Bam wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 8:38pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 7:28pm:

Phemanderac wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 3:59pm:

It seems to me that we would not need something like "political correctness" if people understood more about respectful behaviour. That's all people before you start!

Yes, every individual is different

Funny then how so many of your posts are full of crap that denies this.

That's just when I quote you.... Cheesy

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Karnal

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #35 - Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 10:33pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 5:22pm:

Cultural Marxism may be a term coined by conservatives/libertarians/non-leftists, but this doesn't mean it's a conspiracy. It goes back to at least Gramsci, where he wanted to undermine and destroy the institutions and foundations of Western civilisation. You can trace this idea through the Frankfurt School, Critical theorists, deconstructionists (where it reaches its peak in Derrida), to today's post-structuralists. Post-structuralism is the dominant paradigm of thought in the academe and intellectual circles.

The term Cultural Marxism is used for two reasons (which are actually interconnected): 1. The old left realised they couldn't overthrow the bourgeois via appealing to the working classes, so they devised other ways of destroying the bourgeois: by subverting cultural institutions and values. 2. The simple paradigm of oppressor/oppressed (bourgeois/proletariat) used by Marx was adopted by Western dissidents, but used for the categories of race/ethnicity and gender/sex, among others.

True. They decided to destroy civilisation by running for parliament.

Good point, Mistie.

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quietthomas

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #36 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 12:30am

Show me a corporation and I'll find the person there in charge of giving sexual harassment seminars. McDonalds and Coke both like to put blacks and asians in their advertisements as to appeal to the widest audiences of racial super-friends... but is capitalism being looked at as the source of Multiculturalism, feminism, or political correctness?

NO. Because it makes sense that companies would want women to feel comfortable working for them. That advertisers want to seem appealing and friendly to everyone. That religion is going to fall away as the world of science gains explanatory power. These aren't expressions of Marxist theory infecting our culture - they're functions of capitalism and good will. Plain and simple, but those who push this Conservative conspiracy theory won't accept what I've said here as an explanation - because they are as much set in ideology as any hardcore Marxist Soviet could ever dream of being.

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« Last Edit: Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 1:14am by quietthomas »

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quietthomas

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #37 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 12:42am

That the reds under the beds
scaremongering is still being wheeled out in 2015 - 30 years since the fall of the USSR is more than a bit ridiculous.

Let's face it; Marxism isn't some dangerous and powerful boogieman anymore - it's just a very old criticism of capitalism. But so what? - who cares? Are conservatives really THAT afraid of it?

The only thing "Cultural Marxism" proves is how far downhill conservatism has gone.

Oh you want to protest black people being shot in America - YOU'RE A CULTURAL MARXIST! Oh you think there's still a lot of bullying of women - YOU'RE A CULTURAL MARXIST! Oh you don't believe in god? YOU'RE A CULTURAL MARXIST! Give us a break! We're not like that here in Oz - you wanna be a Marxist? Cool, here's your bottle of

red

- report to Centrelink comrade.

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« Last Edit: Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 12:48am by quietthomas »

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quietthomas

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #38 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 1:19am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 5:22pm:

Cultural Marxism may be a term coined by conservatives/libertarians/non-leftists, but this doesn't mean it's a conspiracy. It goes back to at least Gramsci, where he wanted to undermine and destroy the institutions and foundations of Western civilisation. You can trace this idea through the Frankfurt School, Critical theorists, deconstructionists (where it reaches its peak in Derrida), to today's post-structuralists. Post-structuralism is the dominant paradigm of thought in the academe and intellectual circles.

The term Cultural Marxism is used for two reasons (which are actually interconnected): 1. The old left realised they couldn't overthrow the bourgeois via appealing to the working classes, so they devised other ways of destroying the bourgeois: by subverting cultural institutions and values. 2. The simple paradigm of oppressor/oppressed (bourgeois/proletariat) used by Marx was adopted by Western dissidents, but used for the categories of race/ethnicity and gender/sex, among others.

Post-Structuralism was a criticism of both Marxism as well as of the west:

"The period was marked by political anxiety, as students and workers alike rebelled against the state in May 1968, nearly causing the downfall of the French government. At the same time, however, the support of the French Communist Party (FCP) for the oppressive policies of the USSR contributed to popular disillusionment with orthodox Marxism. Post-structuralism offered a means of justifying these criticisms, by exposing the underlying assumptions of many Western norms."

SOURCE: en.wikipedia org/wiki/Post-structuralism

Choat, however, rewrites this history by reexamining some of the central post-structuralist texts: Lyotard, Derrida, Foucault, and Deleuze. His intention is not to make post-structuralists into crypto-Marxists, or to argue that Marx was a post-structuralist avant la lettre, but to demonstrate that post-structuralism was constituted by an engagement with Marx; a critical engagement, but an engagement nonetheless.

SOURCE: ndpr.nd edu/news/24534-marx-through-post-structuralism-lyotard-derrida-foucault-deleuze/

Come to think of it the dreaded Frankfurt School also Criticized Marxism:

SOURCE: en.wikipedia org/wiki/Soviet_Marxism:_A_Critical_Analysis

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #39 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 4:39am

quietthomas wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 1:19am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 5:22pm:

Cultural Marxism may be a term coined by conservatives/libertarians/non-leftists, but this doesn't mean it's a conspiracy. It goes back to at least Gramsci, where he wanted to undermine and destroy the institutions and foundations of Western civilisation. You can trace this idea through the Frankfurt School, Critical theorists, deconstructionists (where it reaches its peak in Derrida), to today's post-structuralists. Post-structuralism is the dominant paradigm of thought in the academe and intellectual circles.

The term Cultural Marxism is used for two reasons (which are actually interconnected): 1. The old left realised they couldn't overthrow the bourgeois via appealing to the working classes, so they devised other ways of destroying the bourgeois: by subverting cultural institutions and values. 2. The simple paradigm of oppressor/oppressed (bourgeois/proletariat) used by Marx was adopted by Western dissidents, but used for the categories of race/ethnicity and gender/sex, among others.

Post-Structuralism was a criticism of both Marxism as well as of the west:

"The period was marked by political anxiety, as students and workers alike rebelled against the state in May 1968, nearly causing the downfall of the French government. At the same time, however, the support of the French Communist Party (FCP) for the oppressive policies of the USSR contributed to popular disillusionment with orthodox Marxism. Post-structuralism offered a means of justifying these criticisms, by exposing the underlying assumptions of many Western norms."

SOURCE: en.wikipedia org/wiki/Post-structuralism

Choat, however, rewrites this history by reexamining some of the central post-structuralist texts: Lyotard, Derrida, Foucault, and Deleuze. His intention is not to make post-structuralists into crypto-Marxists, or to argue that Marx was a post-structuralist avant la lettre, but to demonstrate that post-structuralism was constituted by an engagement with Marx; a critical engagement, but an engagement nonetheless.

SOURCE: ndpr.nd edu/news/24534-marx-through-post-structuralism-lyotard-derrida-foucault-deleuze/

Come to think of it the dreaded Frankfurt School also Criticized Marxism:

SOURCE: en.wikipedia org/wiki/Soviet_Marxism:_A_Critical_Analysis

The quotes more or less support what I said. Post-structuralism is not about the working classes. It moved onto issues such as the deconstruction of race/ethnicity (when it suites them, of course, as they won't deconstruct non-white races/ethnicities) and gender/sex, as a way of critiquing Western culture.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #40 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 4:48am

quietthomas wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 12:30am:

Show me a corporation and I'll find the person there in charge of giving sexual harassment seminars. McDonalds and Coke both like to put blacks and asians in their advertisements as to appeal to the widest audiences of racial super-friends... but is capitalism being looked at as the source of Multiculturalism, feminism, or political correctness?

NO. Because it makes sense that companies would want women to feel comfortable working for them. That advertisers want to seem appealing and friendly to everyone. That religion is going to fall away as the world of science gains explanatory power. These aren't expressions of Marxist theory infecting our culture - they're functions of capitalism and good will. Plain and simple, but those who push this Conservative conspiracy theory won't accept what I've said here as an explanation - because they are as much set in ideology as any hardcore Marxist Soviet could ever dream of being.

You'll actually find social conservatives, not libertarians, agreeing with a number of your points. Social conservatives (not economic conservatives) are fully aware that big business imports cheap labour to the detriment of domestic labourers. The thing is though, when people come to the defence of multiculturalism, feminism and political correctness, it's not the capitalists who are the most vocal - it's far-left trendy groups that speak up. Perhaps the capitalists are smart enough to let others do their work for them.

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Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10266 Gender:	Re: Right wing "political correctness" Reply #41 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 4:49am Are you really a new member who signed up just to post those 3 posts?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #42 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 6:41am

The OP is spot on. The right attempts to gag debate by playing the victim, falsely claiming that genuine criticism of racism, sexism, homophobia etc is an outrageous conspiracy to persecute the poor white man and take away his freedom.

You don't need to look far to see proof of this - just look at how many times you hear "we're not allowed to say [insert bigoted slur] anymore" - which of course really means "its outrageous that people are now standing up to our bigotry - whereas previously we got a free pass".

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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mariacostel

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #43 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 7:17am

Karnal wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 3:26pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2015 at 3:21pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 1^st, 2015 at 12:50pm:

No it isn't. Right wingers are often criticized but not outright attacked. You find that violent hate mobs online are almost always exclusively right wing and male dominated.

Compare the two "Tech ethics" subs on Reddit, the left wing Ghazi and the right wing KiA. KiA has been implicated in recent shootings at BLM protesters and is being investigated by the FBI, Ghazi is a very mature community where information has sources and rare aggressive violent behavior (from left wingers) is moderated and they are banned.

Look at Youtube, compare two popular channels say the left wing Tooltime to the right wing Sargon of Akkad.

Sargon of Akkad doxxes people (releases their home/work details) is incredibly aggressive, calls minorities "Sp*cs", "N*ggers" etc etc, engages in outright quote mining and editing of footage to make it look like people said something they didn't say. Sargon of Akkad has hundreds of thousands of right wing subscribers on Youtube.

Tooltime another large channel sources all his information to journals, has studied psychology and philosophy, is incredibly polite to people in his comment sections and tries to foment real discussion on issues.

Censorship online and largely in the media is generally the domain as the right, as the appeal to status quo is easy and people don't like to be criticized.

How about how that SBS reporter lost his job for decrying the absolute jingoistic disgrace ANZAC day has become. Yet Bolt still denies the Stolen Generation happened and nothing happens to him.

Do you know just how stupid and bigoted you sound when you make foolish statements like those?

Not you, Maria. He was probably referring to Longy.

All violent mobs are right-wing??? Just take a look around here? Kat - leftwinger has literally called for right-wingers to be killed. Kiron is not a lot better.

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Swagman

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #44 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 7:36am

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 6:41am:

The OP is spot on. The right attempts to gag debate by playing the victim, falsely claiming that genuine criticism of racism, sexism, homophobia etc is an outrageous conspiracy to persecute the poor white man and take away his freedom.

You don't need to look far to see proof of this - just look at how many times you hear "we're not allowed to say [insert bigoted slur] anymore" - which of course really means "its outrageous that people are now standing up to our bigotry - whereas previously we got a free pass".

Hmm 'Isms' and 'phobias' Gandalf?

As soon as you mention "the Right" you are committing 'politics-ism' or would it be better described as 'ideology-ism'...... which is no better than racism, sexism, homophobia, fatism, dumbism ManlySeaEagleism or whatever.... Grin

"People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...." Cheesy

...and before you go on...I'm guilty as well. Wink

Progressive ochlocrats conveniently leave 'politics-ism' / 'ideology-ism' off their list of nasty behaviours, due to the fact that whinging and bitching about the rich and successful is their best means of getting other people to pay for their way in life.... Sad

The 'Right' which mostly represents "the rich and successful" don't care as much because they pay their own way in life.... Cheesy

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