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Right wing "political correctness" (Read 7921 times)
quietthomas
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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #45 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 1:18pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 4:39am:
The quotes more or less support what I said. Post-structuralism is not about the working classes. It moved onto issues such as the deconstruction of race/ethnicity (when it suites them, of course, as they won't deconstruct non-white races/ethnicities) and gender/sex, as a way of critiquing Western culture.



So your complaint is that leftists have political discourses on things other than the working classes?... and yet THEY'RE the ones you're calling Marxists?
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #46 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 1:31pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 6:41am:
The OP is spot on. The right attempts to gag debate by playing the victim, falsely claiming that genuine criticism of racism, sexism, homophobia etc is an outrageous conspiracy to persecute the poor white man and take away his freedom.



It's the left who does that, they try to silence anyone who has an opinion that differs from the narrative they are trying to construct.

Maryam has never incited hatred against muslims her mother is still a muslim, doesn't stop the leftists trying to block free speech.

Quote:
Student Union blocks speech by inflammatory anti sharia activist.

A human rights campaigner has been barred from speaking at Warwick University after organisers were told she was highly inflammatory and could incite hatred.

Maryam Namazie, an Iranian born campaigner against religious laws, had been invited to speak at the Warwick Atheists,Secularists and Humanists Society next month,but the student union blocked the event.
theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/26/student-union-blocks-speech-activist-marya...

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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Karnal
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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #47 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 2:17pm
 
quietthomas wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 12:42am:
That the
reds under the beds
scaremongering is still being wheeled out in 2015 - 30 years since the fall of the USSR is more than a bit ridiculous.

Let's face it; Marxism isn't some dangerous and powerful boogieman anymore - it's just a very old criticism of capitalism.


Marxism is not just a criticism of capitalism, it's actually the most precise definition of capitalism.

Later Marx changed tack. He moved on from the Communist Manifesto, becoming a social democrat. This is the career progression of many revolutionaries. Nelson Mandela, Xanana Guzmao, Vaclav Havel, even the Dali Lama. Once in power, people tend to realize how important finance is, and how crucial consensus is. The importance of Marxism is understanding the interdependence of labour and capital.

Marxism is useful to define capitalism, even if you don't want to change it. Marxist historians, for example, are hardly out to change history. What they show is history's economic determinants. Without such a focus, you only get part of the picture. Without a look at class, it's impossible to understand what makes history happen.
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Karnal
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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #48 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 2:20pm
 
mariacostel wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 7:17am:
Karnal wrote on Dec 2nd, 2015 at 3:26pm:
mariacostel wrote on Dec 2nd, 2015 at 3:21pm:
Kiron22 wrote on Dec 1st, 2015 at 12:50pm:
No it isn't. Right wingers are often criticized but not outright attacked. You find that violent hate mobs online are almost always exclusively right wing and male dominated.

Compare the two "Tech ethics" subs on Reddit, the left wing Ghazi and the right wing KiA. KiA has been implicated in recent shootings at BLM protesters and is being investigated by the FBI, Ghazi is a very mature community where information has sources and rare aggressive violent behavior (from left wingers) is moderated and they are banned.

Look at Youtube, compare two popular channels say the left wing Tooltime to the right wing Sargon of Akkad.

Sargon of Akkad doxxes people (releases their home/work details) is incredibly aggressive, calls minorities "Sp*cs", "N*ggers" etc etc, engages in outright quote mining and editing of footage to make it look like people said something they didn't say. Sargon of Akkad has hundreds of thousands of right wing subscribers on Youtube.

Tooltime another large channel sources all his information to journals, has studied psychology and philosophy, is incredibly polite to people in his comment sections and tries to foment real discussion on issues.

Censorship online and largely in the media is generally the domain as the right, as the appeal to status quo is easy and people don't like to be criticized.

How about how that SBS reporter lost his job for decrying the absolute jingoistic disgrace ANZAC day has become. Yet Bolt still denies the Stolen Generation happened and nothing happens to him.


Do you know just how stupid and bigoted you sound when you make foolish statements like those?


Not you, Maria. He was probably referring to Longy.



All violent mobs are right-wing???  Just take a look around here?  Kat - leftwinger has literally called for right-wingers to be killed. Kiron is not a lot better.


Sure, but Longy's the master. He called for terrorist attacks to ramp up security and (presumably) initiate a military coup, or at the very least, a police state.

I don't know if this is left or right wing, dear. I just know Longy is that good.
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Karnal
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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #49 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 2:22pm
 
Swagman wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 7:36am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 6:41am:
The OP is spot on. The right attempts to gag debate by playing the victim, falsely claiming that genuine criticism of racism, sexism, homophobia etc is an outrageous conspiracy to persecute the poor white man and take away his freedom.

You don't need to look far to see proof of this - just look at how many times you hear "we're not allowed to say [insert bigoted slur] anymore" - which of course really means "its outrageous that people are now standing up to our bigotry - whereas previously we got a free pass".


Hmm  'Isms' and 'phobias' Gandalf?

As soon as you mention "the Right" you are committing 'politics-ism' or would it be better described as 'ideology-ism'...... which is no better than racism, sexism, homophobia, fatism, dumbism ManlySeaEagleism or whatever.... Grin Cheesy

"People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...."  Cheesy

...and before you go on...I'm guilty as well.  Wink

Progressive ochlocrats conveniently leave 'politics-ism' / 'ideology-ism' off their list of nasty behaviours, due to the fact that whinging and bitching about the rich and successful is their best means of getting other people to pay for their way in life....  Sad



Good point, Swagman. People can't change their sex and race. How could they possibly change their wealth?

These people can be so mean.
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quietthomas
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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #50 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 2:27pm
 
Karnal wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 2:17pm:
Marxism is useful to define capitalism, even if you don't want to change it. Marxist historians, for example, are hardly out to change history. What they show is history's economic determinants. Without such a focus, you only get part of the picture. Without a look at class, it's impossible to understand what makes history happen.

I guess that's why Marx is considered one of the very first Sociologists (along with Durkheim, Comte and others).

But I get the feeling that the kinds of Conservatives who use the term "Cultural Marxism" to defend racists and push for traditionalism would also call Sociology a form of "Cultural Marxism".

There's a particular kind of American conservative using this term - the most iconic being William S. Lind (who gets a mention on the Wikipedia).

But yeah, this William S. fellow has a book you can read online: traditionalright com/victoria

It's all about PC thugs taking over America, has quotes like this in it:


"The flow of yen also brought the federal army new recruits, mostly black gang members from the inner city, immigrants straight off the banana boat, and women. The gangs demanded they be accepted whole and designated as military units, with names like the Bad Boyz Battalion and the West Philly Skullsuckers, on the grounds that “forcing them into a white male structure would deny their unique cultural richness.” The result was units that spread drugs and mayhem throughout the federal army but ran as soon as someone shot at them. The immigrant outfits had Spanish as the language of command, and their officers would do anything for a bribe and nothing without one. The all-female infantry battalions were issued cardboard penises so they could take a leak in the field without wetting their drawers."
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« Last Edit: Dec 3rd, 2015 at 2:52pm by quietthomas »  
 
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Karnal
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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #51 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 3:37pm
 
Quote:
I guess that's why Marx is considered one of the very first Sociologists (along with Durkheim, Comte and others).

But I get the feeling that the kinds of Conservatives who use the term "Cultural Marxism" to defend racists and push for traditionalism would also call Sociology a form of "Cultural Marxism".

There's a particular kind of American conservative using this term - the most iconic being William S. Lind (who gets a mention on the Wikipedia).

But yeah, this William S. fellow has a book you can read online: traditionalright com/victoria

It's all about PC thugs taking over America, has quotes like this in it:


"The flow of yen also brought the federal army new recruits, mostly black gang members from the inner city, immigrants straight off the banana boat, and women. The gangs demanded they be accepted whole and designated as military units, with names like the Bad Boyz Battalion and the West Philly Skullsuckers, on the grounds that “forcing them into a white male structure would deny their unique cultural richness.” The result was units that spread drugs and mayhem throughout the federal army but ran as soon as someone shot at them. The immigrant outfits had Spanish as the language of command, and their officers would do anything for a bribe and nothing without one. The all-female infantry battalions were issued cardboard penises so they could take a leak in the field without wetting their drawers."


What a load of krap. Can you imagine the US army taking in gangs and giving them their own military units?

The cultural Marxism thing is Amerikan propaganda. It relies on porkies like the above to spread krap. Sociology is seen as leftist because it looks at the cause of social issues like poverty and crime, rather than proscribing black and white knee-jerk reactions.

This ideology is so strong, it's become un-PC to even mention capitalism, class, etc.

Remember, ideology disguises the social cause of things as inherently natural or biological; as if the way we distribute wealth is completely outside our control. As if our societies and our lives are driven by natural forces - like the weather.

Ideology is one thing, but porkies are another. Lies fuel ideology, and ideology fuels lies. The purpose of knowledge is to expose this.

The cultural Marxist thing is not an attack on "the left", it's an attack on knowledge.
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quietthomas
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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #52 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 5:20pm
 
Karnal wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 3:37pm:
The cultural Marxist thing is not an attack on "the left", it's an attack on knowledge.


I tend to agree with this, by declaring these loosely related academic movements "Cultural marxism" American conservatives are attempting to distance themselves from having to interact with the ideas of the past half century.

It's an ignorant kind of traditionalism that Christian Conservatives in America are trying to push.
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quietthomas
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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #53 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 5:21pm
 
That said, to play devils advocate, the previous linked book "Victoria: A novel of 4th Generation Warefare" by William S. Lind is knowingly a work of fiction - it's kind of his paranoid predictions about the future of America (it's quite comical in parts, a bit like Ayn Rand with all the leftists being absolutely evil and all the right wingers being flawless paragons of virtue).

However his "factual" writings aren't much better:

"Today, when the cultural Marxists want to do something like “normalize” homosexuality, they do not argue the point philosophically. They just beam television show after television show into every American home where the only normal-seeming white male is a homosexual"


...yep, I knew it all along - Television is making everyone gay.


SOURCE: marylandthursdaymeeting com/Archives/SpecialWebDocuments/Cultural.Marxism.htm
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #54 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 7:19pm
 
quietthomas wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 1:18pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 4:39am:
The quotes more or less support what I said. Post-structuralism is not about the working classes. It moved onto issues such as the deconstruction of race/ethnicity (when it suites them, of course, as they won't deconstruct non-white races/ethnicities) and gender/sex, as a way of critiquing Western culture.



So your complaint is that leftists have political discourses on things other than the working classes?... and yet THEY'RE the ones you're calling Marxists?


Is that what you got from that post? The cognitive force is strong in this one.
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #55 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 7:33pm
 
Karnal wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 3:37pm:
Sociology is seen as leftist because it looks at the cause of social issues like poverty and crime, rather than proscribing black and white knee-jerk reactions.


No. Only certain sociology. Durkheim would hardly be considered leftist. It's also ironic you consider non-leftist sociology black and white when Marxists themselves divide people into the simple categories of bourgeois and proletariat.

Quote:
Remember, ideology disguises the social cause of things as inherently natural or biological; as if the way we distribute wealth is completely outside our control. As if our societies and our lives are driven by natural forces - like the weather.


Who argues along purely biological lines?

Quote:
Ideology is one thing, but porkies are another. Lies fuel ideology, and ideology fuels lies. The purpose of knowledge is to expose this.

The cultural Marxist thing is not an attack on "the left", it's an attack on knowledge.


Utter rubbish. Exposing the hyper-criticism of cultural Marxism is not an attack on knowledge. One could even calling it critical thinking.

Additionally, what the left and cultural Marxists engage in could hardly be called knowledge. It's closer to moral posturing than anything else. Leftist critiques are driven by their own values and morals. They aren't impartial assessors of knowledge; rather, they are merely criticisers of certain values and morals. Any knowledge gained along the way is purely accidental.
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« Last Edit: Dec 3rd, 2015 at 7:45pm by Postmodern Trendoid III »  
 
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #56 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 7:37pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 6:41am:
The OP is spot on. The right attempts to gag debate by playing the victim, falsely claiming that genuine criticism of racism, sexism, homophobia etc is an outrageous conspiracy to persecute the poor white man and take away his freedom.

You don't need to look far to see proof of this - just look at how many times you hear "we're not allowed to say [insert bigoted slur] anymore" - which of course really means "its outrageous that people are now standing up to our bigotry - whereas previously we got a free pass".



You are correct in one sense that certain people of the right now play the victim card, which was originally devised and used very successfully by the left. Many on the right have fallen to left wing propaganda rather than affirming their own strengths and achievements. 
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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #57 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 7:44pm
 
quietthomas wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 5:21pm:
William S. Lind. However his "factual" writings aren't much better:

"Today, when the cultural Marxists want to do something like “normalize” homosexuality, they do not argue the point philosophically. They just beam television show after television show into every American home where the only normal-seeming white male is a homosexual"


...yep, I knew it all along - Television is making everyone gay.


SOURCE: marylandthursdaymeeting com/Archives/SpecialWebDocuments/Cultural.Marxism.htm



What's not true about what he said? Tv and media in general is very good at converting people to a cause, simply through repeating the narrative they want.
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quietthomas
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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #58 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 7:50pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 7:33pm:
Leftist critiques are driven by their own values and morals.


That's true of all political critiques. So this accusation of "Cultural Marxism" seems a bit like sour grapes.

That's the nature of ideas - some are reasonable enough to be listened to. Others don't get listened to as much and fall by the wayside. That's how a free society should work.
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Karnal
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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #59 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 7:54pm
 
quietthomas wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 5:20pm:
Karnal wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 3:37pm:
The cultural Marxist thing is not an attack on "the left", it's an attack on knowledge.


I tend to agree with this, by declaring these loosely related academic movements "Cultural marxism" American conservatives are attempting to distance themselves from having to interact with the ideas of the past half century.

It's an ignorant kind of traditionalism that Christian Conservatives in America are trying to push.


Good point. You don’t have to agree with ideas or certain points of view, but you do need to understand them in the context of our history of ideas.

Labelling certain ideas as unreadable - unthinkable - is political correctness of the worst possible kind.

And yes, it’s just as bad as banning climate skeptics or even David Irving from speaking in public.
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