Australian Politics Forum - Right wing "political correctness"

Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10266 Gender:	Re: Right wing "political correctness" Reply #60 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 8:01pm quietthomas wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 7:50pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 7:33pm: Leftist critiques are driven by their own values and morals. That's true of all political critiques. Yes. Which is why Karnal's claim it's about knowledge is either deceitful or ignorant.
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Karnal

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #61 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 8:05pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 7:33pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 3:37pm:

Sociology is seen as leftist because it looks at the cause of social issues like poverty and crime, rather than proscribing black and white knee-jerk reactions.

No. Only certain sociology. Durkheim would hardly be considered leftist. It's also ironic you consider non-leftist sociology black and white when Marxists themselves divide people into the simple categories of bourgeois and proletariat.

Er, the French revolution divided people into the simple categories of bourgeois and peasants, Mistie. Marx wrote during the industrial revolution, hence the proletariat.

No one has called "non leftist" sociology black and white. Tele columnists, shockjocks and One Nation candidates are never sociologists.

There’s a PhD in that one, eh?

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Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10266 Gender:	Re: Right wing "political correctness" Reply #62 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 8:10pm Karnal wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 8:05pm: No one has called "non leftist" sociology black and white. Quote: Sociology is seen as leftist because it looks at the cause of social issues like poverty and crime, rather than proscribing black and white knee-jerk reactions.
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quietthomas

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #63 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 9:50pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 8:01pm:

Yes. Which is why Karnal's claim it's about knowledge is either deceitful or ignorant.

I think you've misread the situation. I read it as Karnal calling the "Cultural Marxism" paranoia an attack on knowledge... not saying that The Frankfurt School's critiques were above reproach. Just that the Conservative Conspiracy theory about The Frankfurt School being some kind of Marxist brainwashing super-group - is kind of well.... stupid.

That's kind of the point, the people framing "Cultural Marxism" don't want to discuss ideas - they want to demonize thought.

In this way I totally agree that such conspiracy theories are an attack on knowledge, an attack on intellect, and ultimately and attack on the audience. We (the audience) should be respected to be able to make up our own minds on ideas - stigmatizing ideas as to sweep them out of view has never been something I'm for - and likely never will be.

But that's what "Cultural Marxism" seems to be an attempt at. It's a sort of "don't read this you'll catch Marxism" ploy.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #64 - Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 9:56pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 1:31pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 6:41am:

The OP is spot on. The right attempts to gag debate by playing the victim, falsely claiming that genuine criticism of racism, sexism, homophobia etc is an outrageous conspiracy to persecute the poor white man and take away his freedom.

It's the left who does that, they try to silence anyone who has an opinion that differs from the narrative they are trying to construct.

Maryam has never incited hatred against muslims her mother is still a muslim, doesn't stop the leftists trying to block free speech.

Quote:

Student Union blocks speech by inflammatory anti sharia activist.

A human rights campaigner has been barred from speaking at Warwick University after organisers were told she was highly inflammatory and could incite hatred.

Maryam Namazie, an Iranian born campaigner against religious laws, had been invited to speak at the Warwick Atheists,Secularists and Humanists Society next month,but the student union blocked the event.
theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/26/student-union-blocks-speech-activist-marya...

It's always the lefties who want to ban speakers like Maryam,Aayan Hirsi Ali,etc at universities.

Loonwatch says extreme left wing groups are responsible for 24% of all terrorist attacks in the USA, that's four times higher than Islamic extremists.
The right wingers don't even rate a mention. Grin

loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims

watch out for butthurt lefties, they can be terrorists. Grin

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #65 - Dec 6^th, 2015 at 6:17am

quietthomas wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 9:50pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 8:01pm:

Yes. Which is why Karnal's claim it's about knowledge is either deceitful or ignorant.

I think you've misread the situation. I read it as Karnal calling the "Cultural Marxism" paranoia an attack on knowledge... not saying that The Frankfurt School's critiques were above reproach. Just that the Conservative Conspiracy theory about The Frankfurt School being some kind of Marxist brainwashing super-group - is kind of well.... stupid.

That's kind of the point, the people framing "Cultural Marxism" don't want to discuss ideas - they want to demonize thought.

In this way I totally agree that such conspiracy theories are an attack on knowledge, an attack on intellect, and ultimately and attack on the audience. We (the audience) should be respected to be able to make up our own minds on ideas - stigmatizing ideas as to sweep them out of view has never been something I'm for - and likely never will be.

But that's what "Cultural Marxism" seems to be an attempt at. It's a sort of "don't read this you'll catch Marxism" ploy.

İt is brainwashing if they don't teach alternative perspectives. The Humanities and Social Sciences, generally, teach two schools of thought: Marxism and Foucauldianism (post-structuralism). Liberalism and Conservatism are only mentioned in critique or for ridicule. İt's little wonder 95% of students turn out to be Marxists and/or Foucauldians. How does this count as critical or analytical thinking? İt's not critical thinking when you absorb the theories taught verbatim.

Don't get me started on their pessimism and nihilism parading as enlightenment.

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Bam

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #66 - Dec 6^th, 2015 at 8:33am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 6^th, 2015 at 6:17am:

quietthomas wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 9:50pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 8:01pm:

Yes. Which is why Karnal's claim it's about knowledge is either deceitful or ignorant.

I think you've misread the situation. I read it as Karnal calling the "Cultural Marxism" paranoia an attack on knowledge... not saying that The Frankfurt School's critiques were above reproach. Just that the Conservative Conspiracy theory about The Frankfurt School being some kind of Marxist brainwashing super-group - is kind of well.... stupid.

That's kind of the point, the people framing "Cultural Marxism" don't want to discuss ideas - they want to demonize thought.

In this way I totally agree that such conspiracy theories are an attack on knowledge, an attack on intellect, and ultimately and attack on the audience. We (the audience) should be respected to be able to make up our own minds on ideas - stigmatizing ideas as to sweep them out of view has never been something I'm for - and likely never will be.

But that's what "Cultural Marxism" seems to be an attempt at. It's a sort of "don't read this you'll catch Marxism" ploy.

İt is brainwashing if they don't teach alternative perspectives. The Humanities and Social Sciences, generally, teach two schools of thought: Marxism and Foucauldianism (post-structuralism). Liberalism and Conservatism are only mentioned in critique or for ridicule. İt's little wonder 95% of students turn out to be Marxists and/or Foucauldians. How does this count as critical or analytical thinking? İt's not critical thinking when you absorb the theories taught verbatim.

Don't get me started on their pessimism and nihilism parading as enlightenment.

Geez, more weapons-grade crap. 95%? Where did you get this number from? Most likely, you just made it up on the spot to convey false authority. And as for what schools teach, you haven't a clue.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #67 - Dec 7^th, 2015 at 6:15am

Bam wrote on Dec 6^th, 2015 at 8:33am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 6^th, 2015 at 6:17am:

quietthomas wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 9:50pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2015 at 8:01pm:

Yes. Which is why Karnal's claim it's about knowledge is either deceitful or ignorant.

I think you've misread the situation. I read it as Karnal calling the "Cultural Marxism" paranoia an attack on knowledge... not saying that The Frankfurt School's critiques were above reproach. Just that the Conservative Conspiracy theory about The Frankfurt School being some kind of Marxist brainwashing super-group - is kind of well.... stupid.

That's kind of the point, the people framing "Cultural Marxism" don't want to discuss ideas - they want to demonize thought.

In this way I totally agree that such conspiracy theories are an attack on knowledge, an attack on intellect, and ultimately and attack on the audience. We (the audience) should be respected to be able to make up our own minds on ideas - stigmatizing ideas as to sweep them out of view has never been something I'm for - and likely never will be.

But that's what "Cultural Marxism" seems to be an attempt at. It's a sort of "don't read this you'll catch Marxism" ploy.

İt is brainwashing if they don't teach alternative perspectives. The Humanities and Social Sciences, generally, teach two schools of thought: Marxism and Foucauldianism (post-structuralism). Liberalism and Conservatism are only mentioned in critique or for ridicule. İt's little wonder 95% of students turn out to be Marxists and/or Foucauldians. How does this count as critical or analytical thinking? İt's not critical thinking when you absorb the theories taught verbatim.

Don't get me started on their pessimism and nihilism parading as enlightenment.

Geez, more weapons-grade crap. 95%? Where did you get this number from? Most likely, you just made it up on the spot to convey false authority. And as for what schools teach, you haven't a clue.

Considering I have studied, researched and worked in this sector for 13 years, I am fully cognizant of what is taught and the political leanings of students and staff. What's your f***ing experience, pal?

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quietthomas

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #68 - Dec 7^th, 2015 at 1:42pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 6^th, 2015 at 6:17am:

İt is brainwashing if they don't teach alternative perspectives.

No it's not, they're teaching the field of "Cultural Studies" in which they teach the theories that make up "Cultural Studies" - your quote could have been taken from the scopes monkey trials, George Bush's position on teaching EVOLUTION in schools, or even Fox News on Climate Change. It's the typical thinking of someone who doesn't understand what "balanced" means: It means considering all positions; NOT giving equal time to all positions.

I wouldn't expect Men's Rights Advocacy to be taught in classes that are about Feminism (although it may rate a mention) - I wouldn't expect Craniology to be taught in the Neurosciences, and I wouldn't expect Religion to be taught as part of a Science course.

Worst of all, your claim - that there are invisible elements to ideology is EXACTLY what Critical Theory studies... and your claim that there is a top down Cultural Hegemony teaching through a hidden curriculum is EXACTLY what The Frankfurt School believed (way back in the 1940s and 50s) but we all moved on from that when The Birmingham School theorists came along - as this video explains:

youtube com/watch?v=RacLjmOSKtQ

Maybe it's time you moved on too, and realized that no one is stopping you from ranting, no one is censoring you, no one is out to destroy your race, or your culture, or your nation - we're all participating in a discussion about where we go from here. That's it - that's all that's happening; and you're just pissed because EVERYONE is now getting to have their say; Australian Marxists, Australian Women, and Australian Islamics included. Other people getting a say in our constitutionally secular Australian democratic discourse - isn't some conspiracy theory and it doesn't constitute censorship - it is in fact a sign that our Democracy is functioning as it should!

People like you need to develop better explanations of why the world is how it is. Might I suggest that taking your opposition as genuine, and reading people as giving their honest opinions rather than mentally distorting their position would be a great starting point; with Feminists really believing they're oppressed by male violence, with Islamics really just wanting to practice their religion, and with gays really just wanting equal rights in the eyes of the law - I mean - it's not THAT difficult to imagine that other people are being equally as honest with their opinions, is it?

This fact shouldn't be a threat to you - and to claim that others are simply "brainwashed" denigrates the conversation and all participants as a whole.

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« Last Edit: Dec 7^th, 2015 at 2:51pm by quietthomas »

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #69 - Dec 7^th, 2015 at 7:47pm

I don't know what kind of fantasy world you live in, but, as I've stated numerous times, universities - particularly in the Humanities and Social Sciences - are dominated by Marxism and post-structuralism. There are no courses analysing issues through a conservative or liberal (as in liberalism or classical liberalism) lens, or anything else non-leftist. You are correct, however, that conservatives and liberals can "rant" on the issues they desire (to an extent). However, not in universities. On boards such as this perhaps, but not in universities.

Universities have the duty to teach numerous perspectives. As stated previously, you do not produce critical, analytical or independent thinkers by bombarding them with only one or two perspectives. All such an approach does is sell students short and produce mindless drones.

Anyway, there will be no reform in the universities, as those who make the decisions to teach students "progressivism" have authoritarian personalities. The only way to change it is to withdraw the funding, starve the "progressives" of tax payers money. In case you haven't noticed, "progressivism" survives largely on the tax payer, through government funded programs. Withdraw the money and watch it slowly die or be little more than a bunch of small lunatic groups like the Socialist Alliance.

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #70 - Dec 7^th, 2015 at 8:39pm

quietthomas wrote on Dec 7^th, 2015 at 1:42pm:

you're just pissed because EVERYONE is now getting to have their say

Do you really believe this? Put aside your petty left/right point scoring exercise and ask yourself if this supposed "voice" that the poor, the oppressed and the downtrodden now (supposedly) have is changing anything. People from all walks of life whinge more than ever. Here you are, revelling in the complaints of "the right" - but you're miserable too! So far everyone but the 1% is a loser and the only "progress" is in creating division and conflict.

It seems "da people" have been given the microphone, but their overseers have turned off the power.

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« Last Edit: Dec 7^th, 2015 at 8:48pm by ... »

In the fullness of time...

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75187 Gender:	Re: Right wing "political correctness" Reply #71 - Dec 7^th, 2015 at 8:45pm I think mistie just got owned on what he thought was 'his' topic
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Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10266 Gender:	Re: Right wing "political correctness" Reply #72 - Dec 7^th, 2015 at 9:13pm John Smith wrote on Dec 7^th, 2015 at 8:45pm: I think mistie just got owned on what he thought was 'his' topic Expand.
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quietthomas

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #73 - Dec 8^th, 2015 at 3:21pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 7^th, 2015 at 7:47pm:

Universities have the duty to teach numerous perspectives.

....and I'm sure when conservatives do some important Academic work in the field of Cultural Studies - Cultural Studies courses will include their work as part of course content.

Just as I'm sure that when Men's Rights Activists do some important work in Feminism; I'm sure they'll be included in the discourses of Feminism...

...and when religious people prove God scientifically - the sciences will include religion as part of science courses.

That's the nature of academia, that's why we have terms like 'peer reviewed' - because "fair and balanced" has nothing to do with "teaching both sides" - and you'd have to be a real fool to believe it does. But hey - maybe 2 + 2 = 5, and that should be taught equally along side '= 4' in Maths classes; maybe the still current Flat Earth movement should be taught in Geography. With your arguments anything is possible.

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« Last Edit: Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:09pm by quietthomas »

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Right wing "political correctness"
Reply #74 - Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:45pm

quietthomas wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 3:21pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Dec 7^th, 2015 at 7:47pm:

Universities have the duty to teach numerous perspectives.

....and I'm sure when conservatives do some important Academic work in the field of Cultural Studies - Cultural Studies courses will include their work as part of course content.

Just as I'm sure that when Men's Rights Activists do some important work in Feminism; I'm sure they'll be included in the discourses of Feminism...

...and when religious people prove God scientifically - the sciences will include religion as part of science courses.

Non-leftists have been writing in the domain of 'cultural studies' for years, decades, centuries even: Roger Scruton, Richard Dawkins, Russell Kirk, Milton Friedman, Friedrich Hayek, Edmond Burke, Kevin McDonald, Keith Windschuttle, Frank Salter ...

Quote:

That's the nature of academia, that's why we have terms like 'peer reviewed' - because "fair and balanced" has nothing to do with "teaching both sides" - and you'd have to be a real fool to believe it does. But hey - maybe 2 + 2 = 5, and that should be taught equally along side '= 4' in Maths classes; maybe the still current Flat Earth movement should be taught in Geography. With your arguments anything is possible.

Well, when publishing companies are stacked with people with "progressive" viewpoints, then obviously you're going to get a "progressive" journal/book. Despite that, there's still plenty of non-leftist articles/books out there.

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