Australian Politics Forum - Turnbull selling the NBN to "Major Telco" in 2016

Dnarever

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Re: Turnbull selling the NBN to "Major Telco" in 2016
Reply #150 - Dec 8^th, 2015 at 4:30pm

mariacostel wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 3:49pm:

21st Century Dialup Network wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 3:43pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 8:02am:

ARE THERE ANY FTTN SUBSCRIBERS ANYWHERE IN AUSTRALIA YET?

67 added in 2 years - what progress!

FTTN is outdated technology that costs more than FTTH to implement and maintain.

Which is nonsense but of course you NBN-freaks are well known for lying. almost HALF the cost of FTTH is wiring up the home. FTTN has no such cost coz its already wired.

Can you show what you mean as far as I can see there is no real difference, they both require the same home cabling, both get a new connection point both require a VOIP connection and both need a connection to an internet modem.

The cost of new copper as in my area is greater than new fibre.

And yes the ongoing maintenance of copper is higher.

In the many areas where they are rolling out new copper, upgrading copper or overhead copper the fibre option would be cheaper but is not on the table for political reasons.

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Dnarever

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Re: Turnbull selling the NBN to "Major Telco" in 2016
Reply #151 - Dec 8^th, 2015 at 4:31pm

mariacostel wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 3:49pm:

21st Century Dialup Network wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 3:43pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 8:02am:

ARE THERE ANY FTTN SUBSCRIBERS ANYWHERE IN AUSTRALIA YET?

67 added in 2 years - what progress!

FTTN is outdated technology that costs more than FTTH to implement and maintain.

Which is nonsense but of course you NBN-freaks are well known for lying. almost HALF the cost of FTTH is wiring up the home. FTTN has no such cost coz its already wired.

well known for lying

It's starting to look like everyone except for you is a liar ?

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mariacostel

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Re: Turnbull selling the NBN to "Major Telco" in 2016
Reply #152 - Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:04pm

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 4:04pm:

Stop being disingenuous.

The copper network is unusable for high speed broadband, they are already rolling out new copper. Also maintenance costs for FTTN are astronomical, while Fiber can last over a century with essentially no degradation.

FTTN costs more, it's basically useless (a theoretical 1mbps speed increase from ADSL2+) and it has a far shorter lifespan (estimated in need of replacing before the NBN is even planned finished).

FTTN is the biggest infrastructure disaster this country has ever seen. I had a truck laying out fiber down my goddamn street in 2013 to be hooked up by the end of that year, only a few houses on my street have it while i'm not even on the FTTN rollout post 2018.

I am asking you to JUSTIFY this in a residential environment. What needs is there for the average household to have super-fast internet? Business I understand. Residences, I dont.

Care to justify it?

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Turnbull selling the NBN to "Major Telco" in 2016
Reply #153 - Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:09pm

mariacostel wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 3:42pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 8:33am:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 8:02am:

ARE THERE ANY FTTN SUBSCRIBERS ANYWHERE IN AUSTRALIA YET?

There are 67 subscribers to FTTN.

In an area where new copper was rolled out after flood. Plenty of spare lines, little noise etc.

A whole 67....

Do you realise why people think you are a joke?

Read above.

It was 67 for quite some time.

Did you read the article I posted about how expensive connecting to FTTN is and how it won’t fix the copper (no service after rain etc etc etc?)

No of course not, you skipped over it because you are incapable of dealing with reality.

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Dnarever

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Re: Turnbull selling the NBN to "Major Telco" in 2016
Reply #154 - Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:14pm

mariacostel wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:04pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 4:04pm:

Stop being disingenuous.

The copper network is unusable for high speed broadband, they are already rolling out new copper. Also maintenance costs for FTTN are astronomical, while Fiber can last over a century with essentially no degradation.

FTTN costs more, it's basically useless (a theoretical 1mbps speed increase from ADSL2+) and it has a far shorter lifespan (estimated in need of replacing before the NBN is even planned finished).

FTTN is the biggest infrastructure disaster this country has ever seen. I had a truck laying out fiber down my goddamn street in 2013 to be hooked up by the end of that year, only a few houses on my street have it while i'm not even on the FTTN rollout post 2018.

I am asking you to JUSTIFY this in a residential environment. What needs is there for the average household to have super-fast internet? Business I understand. Residences, I dont.

Care to justify it?

These decisions were made about 15 years ago, the need isn't the question on the table. It's about the method.

What we have a cobbled together political mess, FTTN was Abbotts insisted method purely because it was different to what Labor were doing. No other reason he just had to be different to score some political points amongst the luddites.

The result is an expensive disaster.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Turnbull selling the NBN to "Major Telco" in 2016
Reply #155 - Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:19pm

mariacostel wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:04pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 4:04pm:

Stop being disingenuous.

The copper network is unusable for high speed broadband, they are already rolling out new copper. Also maintenance costs for FTTN are astronomical, while Fiber can last over a century with essentially no degradation.

FTTN costs more, it's basically useless (a theoretical 1mbps speed increase from ADSL2+) and it has a far shorter lifespan (estimated in need of replacing before the NBN is even planned finished).

FTTN is the biggest infrastructure disaster this country has ever seen. I had a truck laying out fiber down my goddamn street in 2013 to be hooked up by the end of that year, only a few houses on my street have it while i'm not even on the FTTN rollout post 2018.

I am asking you to JUSTIFY this in a residential environment. What needs is there for the average household to have super-fast internet? Business I understand. Residences, I dont.

Care to justify it?

It's called bang-for-your-buck and you pretend you know something about business Shocked

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Turnbull selling the NBN to "Major Telco" in 2016
Reply #156 - Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:22pm

mariacostel wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:04pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 4:04pm:

Stop being disingenuous.

The copper network is unusable for high speed broadband, they are already rolling out new copper. Also maintenance costs for FTTN are astronomical, while Fiber can last over a century with essentially no degradation.

FTTN costs more, it's basically useless (a theoretical 1mbps speed increase from ADSL2+) and it has a far shorter lifespan (estimated in need of replacing before the NBN is even planned finished).

FTTN is the biggest infrastructure disaster this country has ever seen. I had a truck laying out fiber down my goddamn street in 2013 to be hooked up by the end of that year, only a few houses on my street have it while i'm not even on the FTTN rollout post 2018.

I am asking you to JUSTIFY this in a residential environment. What needs is there for the average household to have super-fast internet? Business I understand. Residences, I dont.

Care to justify it?

1. Telepresence, saving lots of travel

2. Telecommuting, most knowledge workers could work from home

3. Video phone calls, keeping families together. Imagine the benefits to those living in remote areas.

4. Telemedicine, better use of medical resources, bloody useful as Boomers age

5. eEducation, sharing special skilled people

6. Very small business can work from home: not possible with the present low unreliable comms network

7. Small business gets a boost from fast, reliable comms, updating websites gets much easier, big files no longer take weeks and days!

Get the idea? Not only that, a household with two adults and 2 kids needs more broadband than the present copper network can provide, especially with Netflix taking up more and more bandwidth.

Also, with the 3 lower tiers high volume users subsidise lower volume users, can’t do this with FTTN, 5mbps is as good as it will get.

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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: Turnbull selling the NBN to "Major Telco" in 2016 Reply #157 - Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:32pm Question: What is upload speed? Answer: Bang for your tax-payer dollar! Bye Bye innovation nation: hello campaign trail (Now where is that media?)
Back to top	Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) IP Logged

mariacostel

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Re: Turnbull selling the NBN to "Major Telco" in 2016
Reply #158 - Dec 8^th, 2015 at 6:45pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:22pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:04pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 4:04pm:

Stop being disingenuous.

The copper network is unusable for high speed broadband, they are already rolling out new copper. Also maintenance costs for FTTN are astronomical, while Fiber can last over a century with essentially no degradation.

FTTN costs more, it's basically useless (a theoretical 1mbps speed increase from ADSL2+) and it has a far shorter lifespan (estimated in need of replacing before the NBN is even planned finished).

FTTN is the biggest infrastructure disaster this country has ever seen. I had a truck laying out fiber down my goddamn street in 2013 to be hooked up by the end of that year, only a few houses on my street have it while i'm not even on the FTTN rollout post 2018.

I am asking you to JUSTIFY this in a residential environment. What needs is there for the average household to have super-fast internet? Business I understand. Residences, I dont.

Care to justify it?

1. Telepresence, saving lots of travel nonsense as any ACTUAL business traveller would tell you.

2. Telecommuting, most knowledge workers could work from home already can. not everyone needs a high bandwidth connection to do their job.

3. Video phone calls, keeping families together. Imagine the benefits to those living in remote areas. Never heard of skype? Already being done. And why is video essential to keeping family together and.... what would you knwo about family anyhow?

4. Telemedicine, better use of medical resources, bloody useful as Boomers age non-existent technology and not employed anywhere at all.

5. eEducation, sharing special skilled people Been doing this for 15 years. And it is done largely in the workplace - NOT the home.

6. Very small business can work from home: not possible with the present low unreliable comms network. Plenty already do this and have for decades.

7. Small business gets a boost from fast, reliable comms, updating websites gets much easier, big files no longer take weeks and days! what drivel. HAve you ever been responsible for a website? NOBODY sents 10Gb files anywhere to anyone in a business environment.

Get the idea? Not only that, a household with two adults and 2 kids needs more broadband than the present copper network can provide, especially with Netflix taking up more and more bandwidth.

Also, with the 3 lower tiers high volume users subsidise lower volume users, can’t do this with FTTN, 5mbps is as good as it will get.

Try again, medieval monk

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Turnbull selling the NBN to "Major Telco" in 2016
Reply #159 - Dec 8^th, 2015 at 9:37pm

mariacostel wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 6:45pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:22pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:04pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 4:04pm:

Stop being disingenuous.

The copper network is unusable for high speed broadband, they are already rolling out new copper. Also maintenance costs for FTTN are astronomical, while Fiber can last over a century with essentially no degradation.

FTTN costs more, it's basically useless (a theoretical 1mbps speed increase from ADSL2+) and it has a far shorter lifespan (estimated in need of replacing before the NBN is even planned finished).

FTTN is the biggest infrastructure disaster this country has ever seen. I had a truck laying out fiber down my goddamn street in 2013 to be hooked up by the end of that year, only a few houses on my street have it while i'm not even on the FTTN rollout post 2018.

I am asking you to JUSTIFY this in a residential environment. What needs is there for the average household to have super-fast internet? Business I understand. Residences, I dont.

Care to justify it?

1. Telepresence, saving lots of travel nonsense as any ACTUAL business traveller would tell you.

Ah no, big companies use telepresence to save on ravel costs and time.

2. Telecommuting, most knowledge workers could work from home already can. not everyone needs a high bandwidth connection to do their job.

You are joking! Video conferencing, online collaboration needs high UP and DOWN loads, You don’t know much[color=#333333], do you?

[/color]

3. Video phone calls, keeping families together. Imagine the benefits to those living in remote areas. Never heard of skype? Already being done. And why is video essential to keeping family together and.... what would you knwo about family anyhow?

Ever seen skype? In the regions? You don’t know much, do you? good video conferencing needs high UPload speed.

4. Telemedicine, better use of medical resources, bloody useful as Boomers age non-existent technology and not employed anywhere at all.

Sorry chum, way behind the times, telehealth is being used here and now. Would be really great on a real NBN. You are seriously behind the times and seriously deficient in knowledge and intelligence. do some reading!

5. eEducation, sharing special skilled people Been doing this for 15 years. And it is done largely in the workplace - NOT the home.

No, I am talking about school, primary and secondary. No idea, have you?

6. Very small business can work from home: not possible with the present low unreliable comms network. Plenty already do this and have for decades.

Only tiny, one man businesses.

7. Small business gets a boost from fast, reliable comms, updating websites gets much easier, big files no longer take weeks and days! what drivel. HAve you ever been responsible for a website? NOBODY sents 10Gb files anywhere to anyone in a business environment.

Don’t you? Don’t do much, do you? Not only do businesses have to keep websites up to date and they need to send color photos to ad agencies for flyers, catalogs etc. Not been in a successful business by the sounds?

Get the idea? Not only that, a household with two adults and 2 kids needs more broadband than the present copper network can provide, especially with Netflix taking up more and more bandwidth.

Also, with the 3 lower tiers high volume users subsidise lower volume users, can’t do this with FTTN, 5mbps is as good as it will get.

Try again, medieval monk

So you have shown you have no idea about the state of play, about what a real NBN can do. I suggest you forget about putting your house at risk for some no doubt foolhardy business idea?

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Get the vaxx! 💉💉

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Dnarever

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Re: Turnbull selling the NBN to "Major Telco" in 2016
Reply #160 - Dec 9^th, 2015 at 5:41am

mariacostel wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 6:45pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:22pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 5:04pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 4:04pm:

Stop being disingenuous.

The copper network is unusable for high speed broadband, they are already rolling out new copper. Also maintenance costs for FTTN are astronomical, while Fiber can last over a century with essentially no degradation.

FTTN costs more, it's basically useless (a theoretical 1mbps speed increase from ADSL2+) and it has a far shorter lifespan (estimated in need of replacing before the NBN is even planned finished).

FTTN is the biggest infrastructure disaster this country has ever seen. I had a truck laying out fiber down my goddamn street in 2013 to be hooked up by the end of that year, only a few houses on my street have it while i'm not even on the FTTN rollout post 2018.

I am asking you to JUSTIFY this in a residential environment. What needs is there for the average household to have super-fast internet? Business I understand. Residences, I dont.

Care to justify it?

1. Telepresence, saving lots of travel nonsense as any ACTUAL business traveller would tell you.

2. Telecommuting, most knowledge workers could work from home already can. not everyone needs a high bandwidth connection to do their job.

3. Video phone calls, keeping families together. Imagine the benefits to those living in remote areas. Never heard of skype? Already being done. And why is video essential to keeping family together and.... what would you knwo about family anyhow?

4. Telemedicine, better use of medical resources, bloody useful as Boomers age non-existent technology and not employed anywhere at all.

5. eEducation, sharing special skilled people Been doing this for 15 years. And it is done largely in the workplace - NOT the home.

6. Very small business can work from home: not possible with the present low unreliable comms network. Plenty already do this and have for decades.

7. Small business gets a boost from fast, reliable comms, updating websites gets much easier, big files no longer take weeks and days! what drivel. HAve you ever been responsible for a website? NOBODY sents 10Gb files anywhere to anyone in a business environment.

Get the idea? Not only that, a household with two adults and 2 kids needs more broadband than the present copper network can provide, especially with Netflix taking up more and more bandwidth.

Also, with the 3 lower tiers high volume users subsidise lower volume users, can’t do this with FTTN, 5mbps is as good as it will get.

Try again, medieval monk

Monk is correct.

You seem to use a very backward view to justify excuses for a poor standard. You seem to be comparing to the 1990's requirements when you need to consider the 2030 needs. One of the reasons that you question is difficult to answer is that although most people accept that we will need increased bandwidth in the future nobody can really foresee the developments that are going to need it.

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mariacostel

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Re: Turnbull selling the NBN to "Major Telco" in 2016
Reply #161 - Dec 9^th, 2015 at 7:36am

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 9:37pm: