Australian Politics Forum - Baden Clay wins appeal.

The Heartless Felon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2869 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #165 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 5:12am If the victim had been a bloke, would we have all of this outrage?
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aquascoot

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #166 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 5:45am

i was surprised to see politicians joining the social media campaign on this one.
i saw glenn lazarus is going to a rally.
and several of palachuzuks ministers commented as well. (though to her credit palazchuk was cautious).
but the seperation of the judiciary from politics...i thought that was part of the lefts holy vows Wink

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Aussie

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #167 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 10:39am

aquascoot wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 5:45am:

i was surprised to see politicians joining the social media campaign on this one.
i saw glenn lazarus is going to a rally.
and several of palachuzuks ministers commented as well. (though to her credit palazchuk was cautious).
but the seperation of the judiciary from politics...i thought that was part of the lefts holy vows Wink

Oh.....the 'Allison' supporters have cunningly blurred the legal issue with one of domestic violence, (even though there was precisely zero history of domestic violence in the Baden Clay household prior to her death) and they have hitched their wagon to that. Pathetic and deliberately misleading.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #168 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 10:50am

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 14^th, 2015 at 6:16pm:

red baron wrote on Dec 14^th, 2015 at 5:24pm:

At the end of the day, people make the laws and the people are speaking out loud and clear on this one.

No, the politicians make the laws.

Moreover, the petition is irrelevant.

Indeed - they even trotted out Rosie Batty (or whatever) to say she was gutted by the whole thing... I'm seriously beginning to lose faith in that girl and her original approach to family violence - now she has become more and more a tool of the propagandists and is being paid handsomely for her services.....

Let me say it again - the evidence is thin.... that is occasionally a clear reason why judges will reduce a sentence or a charge or a finding.... and unfortunately what that means is that in the finding, a considerable body of doubt has been overlooked or deliberately ignored.

Whatever my personal view on guilt or otherwise - I can only determine it on the facts as presented - not on my personal view.

Now bring on those who say I'm supporting woman killers..... sorry - but I do not support or condone judicial murder either.....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #169 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:03am

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 14^th, 2015 at 6:16pm:

red baron wrote on Dec 14^th, 2015 at 5:24pm:

At the end of the day, people make the laws and the people are speaking out loud and clear on this one.

No, the politicians make the laws.

Moreover, the petition is irrelevant.

in other words SHUT UP..

how come if a group of men dont like something they can go on STRIKE.. have a MARCH wave banners...even crash through the gates of Parliament...

yet we at least a few of us express disgust at a Court of Appeal action... and we are dismissed as IRRELEVANT>> Roll Eyes

how does that work in your democracy greg?...

in mine it says I HAVE A VOICE>. not a big one I admit...but!!!

NO I DO NOT AGREE WITH EVERYTHING OUR COURTS DO OR ALLOW>.

you seem too so good luck to you..

how else would I protest.... and hopefully be HEARD..surely not through the election voting system we have... Roll Eyes

I am thoroughly disgusted with this down grade..and I want my disgust to be known...... if they realise enough people do not like this turn of events..

and lets face it it could cost VOTES>. and thats the way they tend to look at things...

then thats what I will do...I will sign everything I agree with....and greg many of these petitions I have signed have been acted on.....so dont dismiss it..

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38868 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #170 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:15am Mr Peccary correctly pointed out that the Petition is irrelevant to the legal process. It is. I did not see him post that you or your views are irrelevant.
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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #171 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:25am

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 10:50am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 14^th, 2015 at 6:16pm:

red baron wrote on Dec 14^th, 2015 at 5:24pm:

At the end of the day, people make the laws and the people are speaking out loud and clear on this one.

No, the politicians make the laws.

Moreover, the petition is irrelevant.

Indeed - they even trotted out Rosie Batty (or whatever) to say she was gutted by the whole thing... I'm seriously beginning to lose faith in that girl and her original approach to family violence - now she has become more and more a tool of the propagandists and is being paid handsomely for her services.....

Let me say it again - the evidence is thin.... that is occasionally a clear reason why judges will reduce a sentence or a charge or a finding.... and unfortunately what that means is that in the finding, a considerable body of doubt has been overlooked or deliberately ignored.

Whatever my personal view on guilt or otherwise - I can only determine it on the facts as presented - not on my personal view.

Now bring on those who say I'm supporting woman killers..... sorry - but I do not support or condone judicial murder either.....

you mention THIN EVIDENCE>..can you explain that in plain English what was so THIN about the evidence???.....

you have made a statement there where you claim your view is based on FACTS>...what FACTS are they?... as they dont seem to be the same ones [FACTS]mine are based on...

where have your FACTS been sourced from grap??..

the way you guys twist things to fit in with your reasoning is remarkable.....

if a man murders his wife.. or a wife murders her husband..

guess what

ITS "DOMESTIC "VIOLENCE>. in fact the violence doesnt get any worse... Angry

.

you see grap this is what Batty is trying to do.... DV is more than just a DOMESTIC which is what it was called for many years.. even the cops used the term......

domestic sounds all homely somehow... not a big deal...

well right it wasnt at one stage.,....

but now we have kids murdered or abused right in their own homes.... we have kids growing up with hitting screaming shouting slamming..threatening all being the NORMAL every day occurrence ...

maybe you dont read the papers...but I do.. and its getting worse...

it is long past being JUST a "DOMESTIC."....it is FAMILY VIOLENCE ON A B IG SCALE>. and like I said.. it doesnt come any

BIGGER THAN MURDER..

there is something seriously wrong with people who think MURDER IN THE HOME HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "DOMESTIC" VIOLENCE Angry

I dont care what the bloody LAW says...I lost faith in that a long time ago..
but when you start dragging down someone like Rosie Batty who not only was abused but instantly knew her son had been murdered by an ABUSER.....and she was there....

you are not doing yourself any favours..

and this isnt female/ male thing... ITs A HOME FAMILY CRISIS. Cry

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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #172 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:25am Aussie wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:15am: Mr Peccary correctly pointed out that the Petition is irrelevant to the legal process. It is. I did not see him post that you or your views are irrelevant. what the bloody hell do you think a PETITION IS..
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Aussie

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #173 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:28am

cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:25am:

Aussie wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:15am:

Mr Peccary correctly pointed out that the Petition is irrelevant to the legal process. It is.

I did not see him post that you or your views are irrelevant.

what the bloody hell do you think a PETITION IS.. Angry

Oh, gosh....that's a tough'n. I'll have to really think hard about that and get back to you.

It would not matter if there were a zillion signatures on a petition....in this appeal scenario, the Law has zero regard for, or interest in, such documents.

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Kytro

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #174 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:36am

cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:25am:

Aussie wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:15am:

Mr Peccary correctly pointed out that the Petition is irrelevant to the legal process. It is.

I did not see him post that you or your views are irrelevant.

what the bloody hell do you think a PETITION IS.. Angry

Well it's not part of the legal process.

The AG can appeal if a legal basis exists for doing so. This reason exists or not regardless of how many people are upset. The government either has to change the law, or live with it.

If they change the law, then they need to decide how to do so, and even then there are limits on what they can do - they can't for example have a law that lets them set aside judicial decisions as it would be unconstitutional.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #175 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:41am

cods - the evidence is wholely circumstantial - that's what the reports all say - in other words the only reason for conviction is that there was nothing to put anyone else in the frame for the death.

It would not be the first or last time that a person was convicted because the investigation failed to turn up any hard evidence, or even because the investigators simply did not follow up any other leads after fixing upon the 'most likely suspect'.

The reports also said there was a significant lack of injury to the body consistent with 'domestic violence' and that there was zero history of violence in the relationship.

All of that tends to make some of us wary of a finding in a 'court' in this country, given their history of entrenched and endemic injustice and their refusal to abide by The Rule Of Law, and, rather than upholding Rights of a defendant as required, will actively aid and abet wrongful and even false conviction rather than make the 'authorities' look bad.

Read The Shearer's Tale by Tom Molomby - a perfect example of a gross miscarriage of justice.

The very real problem I have with entrenched injustice is that, in far too many cases, the real perpetrators often get away with it, since the net is cast out for any warm body who will fit the frame...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Quantum

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #176 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 12:07pm

cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:25am:

Aussie wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:15am:

Mr Peccary correctly pointed out that the Petition is irrelevant to the legal process. It is.

I did not see him post that you or your views are irrelevant.

what the bloody hell do you think a PETITION IS.. Angry

And what do you want to happen? People being judged by popular opinion?

Courts work with evidence and courts decided. The general public should never be allowed to interfere because other people disappointed with the decision make a lot of noise on the idiot box.

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The Heartless Felon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2869 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #177 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 2:46pm The Heartless Felon wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 5:12am: If the victim had been a bloke, would we have all of this outrage? The reason I asked is that I saw Libby Trickett on the news last night. She said that the rally is not just for Allison but for all women. Not victims - women. Sexist sow...
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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #178 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 2:48pm

Kytro wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:36am:

cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:25am:

Aussie wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:15am:

Mr Peccary correctly pointed out that the Petition is irrelevant to the legal process. It is.

I did not see him post that you or your views are irrelevant.

what the bloody hell do you think a PETITION IS.. Angry

Well it's not part of the legal process.

The AG can appeal if a legal basis exists for doing so. This reason exists or not regardless of how many people are upset. The government either has to change the law, or live with it.

If they change the law, then they need to decide how to do so, and even then there are limits on what they can do - they can't for example have a law that lets them set aside judicial decisions as it would be unconstitutional.

I didnt reply to that part of the POST

if your long nosed knowall...mate hadnt butted in with his USUAL PERSONAL ABUSE>.. I wouldnt have replied to him

he was talking about

MY VIEWS AND WHAT GREG DID OR DIDNT INTEND>>

and that my friend makes sense to the dense on here.. Angry

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #179 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 3:13pm

Quantum wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 12:07pm:

cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:25am:

Aussie wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:15am:

Mr Peccary correctly pointed out that the Petition is irrelevant to the legal process. It is.

I did not see him post that you or your views are irrelevant.

what the bloody hell do you think a PETITION IS.. Angry

And what do you want to happen? People being judged by popular opinion?

Courts work with evidence and courts decided. The general public should never be allowed to interfere because other people disappointed with the decision make a lot of noise on the idiot box.

WHAT EVIDENCE IS THAT?????>..

YOU AND GRAP MUST READ THE SAME BOOKS..

he was FOUND GUILTY OF MURDER BY THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED TO A JURY OF 12 PEERS...

he has now been found GUILTY OF MANSLAUGHTER where did the EVIDENCE CHANGE??>>

as far as I can tell a few legal people are saying HE COULD HAVE HAD A BRAIN STORM>. Roll Eyes

it was an accident.. now I come to think of it.. it was... Cheesy

[ i cant imagine any murderer from now on not having a BRAIN STORM..] Roll Eyes

COULD HAVE HAD... means no evidence.. lets take a shot in the dark.. and bring in DOUBT...

do you think he is INNOCENT??>.

if so start a petition and see how many people agree with you../

so far they have exeeded 100.000 in a few short days..

we are entitled to show and voice our disapproval...

the LAW is an ASS its been proved over and over again...

you are ok with the LAW and do not like Mr or Mrs average having a say in it...thats fine..thats your business.

lets hope you are never affected adversely by the LAW...

lucky you.... I watched 60 minutes last Sunday it had victims of crime on.... and they all agreed the court process and the law in general does not support the victims....

if you read any case the victims are mostly shadows they neither say anything nor are they invited too...in some cases since the victims of crime statement has been brought in.. they have been told in no uncertain fashion it wont make the slightest difference to the sentencing...nice..

I remember once case where the mum said her daughters name [victim]was barely mentioned...it was as if she had nothing to do with the case...

I am sorry but I am on the victims side..

you be on whos side you wish it doesnt interest me.

if you want a whole heap of murderers lining up now to use Gerards rule...good luck with that....

I will keep signing petitions when I believe something needs fixing... and this is one of those things...

dont like it dont read my posts.. I do not need telling anymore by all the experts on here what the law is or isnt..

its a goose I have little respect for it.

.

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