Australian Politics Forum - Baden Clay wins appeal.

cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #180 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 3:19pm

The Heartless Felon wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 2:46pm:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 5:12am:

If the victim had been a bloke, would we have all of this outrage?

The reason I asked is that I saw Libby Trickett on the news last night. She said that the rally is not just for Allison but for all women.

Not victims - women.

Sexist sow...

charming... the LAW is neither about male or female...it has no genda...

so it would be hardly likely a law would be made only for women who are murdered...

you men can have a rally any old day of the week.. all this oh what about the poor men..sob sob.

no one is stopping you....

when 3 men in a week are murdered by women due to D.V.. I am sure a lot of females will come out in support of men who live terrified of their partners...

I for one think its wonderful in the ads where many men are standing up and saying it isnt OK to hit a women...

Trickett is a female celeb a lot of men will be at that rally....and so they should be.. as most decent men are appalled by this as well..

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Quantum

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #181 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 3:25pm

cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 3:13pm:

Quantum wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 12:07pm:

cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:25am:

Aussie wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:15am:

Mr Peccary correctly pointed out that the Petition is irrelevant to the legal process. It is.

I did not see him post that you or your views are irrelevant.

what the bloody hell do you think a PETITION IS.. Angry

And what do you want to happen? People being judged by popular opinion?

Courts work with evidence and courts decided. The general public should never be allowed to interfere because other people disappointed with the decision make a lot of noise on the idiot box.

WHAT EVIDENCE IS THAT?????>..

YOU AND GRAP MUST READ THE SAME BOOKS..

he was FOUND GUILTY OF MURDER BY THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED TO A JURY OF 12 PEERS...

he has now been found GUILTY OF MANSLAUGHTER where did the EVIDENCE CHANGE??>>

as far as I can tell a few legal people are saying HE COULD HAVE HAD A BRAIN STORM>. Roll Eyes

it was an accident.. now I come to think of it.. it was... Cheesy

[ i cant imagine any murderer from now on not having a BRAIN STORM..] Roll Eyes

COULD HAVE HAD... means no evidence.. lets take a shot in the dark.. and bring in DOUBT...

do you think he is INNOCENT??>.

if so start a petition and see how many people agree with you../

so far they have exeeded 100.000 in a few short days..

we are entitled to show and voice our disapproval...

the LAW is an ASS its been proved over and over again...

you are ok with the LAW and do not like Mr or Mrs average having a say in it...thats fine..thats your business.

lets hope you are never affected adversely by the LAW...

lucky you.... I watched 60 minutes last Sunday it had victims of crime on.... and they all agreed the court process and the law in general does not support the victims....

if you read any case the victims are mostly shadows they neither say anything nor are they invited too...in some cases since the victims of crime statement has been brought in.. they have been told in no uncertain fashion it wont make the slightest difference to the sentencing...nice..

I remember once case where the mum said her daughters name [victim]was barely mentioned...it was as if she had nothing to do with the case...

I am sorry but I am on the victims side..

you be on whos side you wish it doesnt interest me.

if you want a whole heap of murderers lining up now to use Gerards rule...good luck with that....

I will keep signing petitions when I believe something needs fixing... and this is one of those things...

dont like it dont read my posts.. I do not need telling anymore by all the experts on here what the law is or isnt..

its a goose I have little respect for it.

.

I have made no comment on this case. I made comment on the idea that the courts should be swayed by the general public in the way you wish it could.

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Quantum

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #182 - Dec 15^th, 2015 at 3:31pm

cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 3:19pm:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 2:46pm:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 5:12am:

If the victim had been a bloke, would we have all of this outrage?

The reason I asked is that I saw Libby Trickett on the news last night. She said that the rally is not just for Allison but for all women.

Not victims - women.

Sexist sow...

charming... the LAW is neither about male or female...it has no genda...

so it would be hardly likely a law would be made only for women who are murdered...

you men can have a rally any old day of the week.. all this oh what about the poor men..sob sob.

no one is stopping you....

when 3 men in a week are murdered by women due to D.V.. I am sure a lot of females will come out in support of men who live terrified of their partners...

I for one think its wonderful in the ads where many men are standing up and saying it isnt OK to hit a women...

Trickett is a female celeb a lot of men will be at that rally....and so they should be.. as most decent men are appalled by this as well..

Then why do all these experts leading the fight against DV make it all about women?

"Domestic violence is wrong" is a clear statement.

"Domestic violence against women is wrong" is not clear at all.

Does this mean that Domestic violence against men is ok? Does it mean that it never happens against men? Does it mean that it happens but we don't really care that much about it to make mention of it?

Why make mention about women specifically when both the law and reality (women and men are both victims in the real world) are supposedly equal?

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Neferti

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #183 - Dec 29^th, 2015 at 8:43am

UPDATE

Quote:

Director of Public Prosecutions plans to appeal downgrading of Gerard Baden-Clay's conviction for killing wife Allison:

Queensland's Director of Public Prosecutions is reportedly planning to lodge an appeal over the downgrading of Gerard Baden-Clay's conviction for killing his wife Allison.

The Court of Appeal downgraded Baden-Clay's conviction from murder to manslaughter earlier this month.

The court's decision was met with public protests led by Allison's friends and family members.

The Director of Public Prosecutions, Michael Byrne QC, has told Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk that he plans to lodge an appeal next week, according to the Courier-Mail.

He will reportedly lodge the documents when courts reopen.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/12/29/04/33/director-of-public-prosecution...

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #184 - Dec 29^th, 2015 at 9:28am

Quantum wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 12:07pm:

cods wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:25am:

Aussie wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 11:15am:

Mr Peccary correctly pointed out that the Petition is irrelevant to the legal process. It is.

I did not see him post that you or your views are irrelevant.

what the bloody hell do you think a PETITION IS.. Angry

And what do you want to happen? People being judged by popular opinion?

Courts work with evidence and courts decided. The general public should never be allowed to interfere because other people disappointed with the decision make a lot of noise on the idiot box.

dont you see..... the people THE JURY found him GUILTY OF MURDER...

ok got that??.. he was found guilty of murder by his peers....

no ifs or buts...

then along come some faceless person and say ok lets change that to GUILTY OF MANSLAUGHTER...

puts a whole different tone on it..

now had he been charged with and found guilty of MANSLAUGHTER... there would be no outcry....

dismay /anger maybe but it went through the courts...

in this case...
this change did NOT GO THROUGH THE COURTS.

this is what people are furious about....

of course PUBLIC OPINION matters... who the hell do those who MAKE THE LAWS THINK THEY ARE??>

some kind of gods that can make or break as they see fit??????

I dont think so..

and I am very please to read where the DPP plans to lodge an appeal against it...

it is setting an appalling precedent ...

Quantum wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 3:31pm:

Why make mention about women specifically when both the law and reality (women and men are both victims in the real world) are supposedly equal?

quantum..bring it into perspective....2 women per week are murdered due to domestic violence...

3 were murdered in the same week in Qld....

it has become an epidemic in some ways..womens safe houses are going up faster than a speeding bullet...

something is wrong with out society it needs to be TALKED ABOUT on every level...a child is murdered . that is domestic violence.....

how or why men do not have safe houses I do not know??...if men are being abused on the same scale as women......then we need to be shown these figures.... no not interested in American or British stats this is an Australian problem and its needs sorting..

are males more and more being bashed and murdered by their spouse???...

if this is the case.. then why are you men NOT DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT???..

put your ads up on tele and do the calendars

raise the issues... in public...

but dont whinge because of the word Domestic Violence against Women....

because it is women who have done the lobbying to get this into the public eye......

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #185 - Dec 29^th, 2015 at 9:29am

Neferti wrote on Dec 29^th, 2015 at 8:43am:

UPDATE

Quote:

Director of Public Prosecutions plans to appeal downgrading of Gerard Baden-Clay's conviction for killing wife Allison:

Queensland's Director of Public Prosecutions is reportedly planning to lodge an appeal over the downgrading of Gerard Baden-Clay's conviction for killing his wife Allison.

The Court of Appeal downgraded Baden-Clay's conviction from murder to manslaughter earlier this month.

The court's decision was met with public protests led by Allison's friends and family members.

The Director of Public Prosecutions, Michael Byrne QC, has told Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk that he plans to lodge an appeal next week, according to the Courier-Mail.

He will reportedly lodge the documents when courts reopen.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/12/29/04/33/director-of-public-prosecution...

that is so good... well done Qld...at long last you are getting the message..

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #186 - Dec 29^th, 2015 at 9:39am

cods wrote on Dec 29^th, 2015 at 9:28am:

then along come some faceless person and say ok lets change that to GUILTY OF MANSLAUGHTER...

puts a whole different tone on it..

now had he been charged with and found guilty of MANSLAUGHTER... there would be no outcry....

dismay /anger maybe but it went through the courts...

in this case...
this change did NOT GO THROUGH THE COURTS.

Some clarification.

"The Court of Appeal set aside the murder finding ... "

Court of Appeal

"The Court of Appeal is a division of the Supreme Court and hears all appeals from the Supreme and District Courts, and many tribunals.

"The court does not hear entire cases or have a jury, and deals only with the subject of the appeal. It is made up of three or five judges of the Supreme Court who consider the grounds of the appeal and make a judgment.

"The judges listen to the arguments by the opposing sides and decide whether an error of law was made or some crucial fact was overlooked in the original hearing."

http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/courts/court-of-appeal

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Alinta Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1470 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #187 - Dec 29^th, 2015 at 10:03am Here you go Cods.......somewhere in this document is the basis for the DPP decision to lodge proceedings in the High Court. We the public do not know the "somewhere" at this stage.... http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/qld/QCA/2015/265.html?stem=0...
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #188 - Dec 29^th, 2015 at 10:22am

And therein lies a rub - if the initial court hearing goes astray in some way - and I can assure you that magistrates are the most erroneous and felonious of miscreants to ever sit in lieu of Her Majesty The Queen and adjudge cases brought before them - any appeal is only on that flawed hearing. Very few are fortunate enough to encounter a genuine judge who will say..

"Old it, bruvvas! 'At Magistrate didn't permit the defendant to speak on his own behalf when it was manifest that his lawyer wasn't doing a thing! Damned lawyer only asked two question of no import and challenged nothing, so this is a clear miscarriage of justice. Case demands a full re-hearing!"

Now - if a jury found guilt on the basis of emotion.. not an uncommon event... rather than on proven fact.......... a judge may find cause to at least lower the charge.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #189 - Dec 29^th, 2015 at 12:32pm

Alinta wrote on Dec 29^th, 2015 at 10:03am:

Here you go Cods.......somewhere in this document is the basis for the DPP decision to lodge proceedings in the High Court. We the public do not know the "somewhere" at this stage....

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/qld/QCA/2015/265.html?stem=0...

thanks for that... it would take me a day to read it..

and even longer to understand some of it...

however I do appreciate all those who think the LAW IS CORRECT ON EVERYTHING>.

Roll Eyes

sorry but the FACTS are..

LAWS ARE MADE BY MEN...

they were not carved in stone.....

I am sorry alinta...but to me a lot of laws are made by men with men in mind..

NO NOT THIS ONE...if there is a law that says its okay to change a murder result to a manslaughter one.. without going through the court.....

why not misadventure??????..... Roll Eyes

to me being charged with Murder and FOUND GUILTY...

is at the top of seriousness...

if they wish to appeal...and claim it was manslaughter.. come up with evidence to suggest it and the go through the court again....

where he/she is charged with murder but the defence says no it was an accident...it was manslaughter...

let the jury decide..

we seem to have laws that can be twisted as and when it suits........shall we say LAWYERS?...

thats how it looks to me...

a decision has been made.. ok by the court of appeal...

marking down his culpability...looking at everything in that link.. [quickly].. they are questioning a lot of the evidence...

if I killed someone by accident.. would I really go to all those lengths to cover it up????...

they the LAW are giving him the benefit of the doubt..

that is wrong....IMO...a re trial YES I go along with that assuming they have a good enough argument....

but this way... I would never accept.. never ever...

thanks for your time alinta I will try and engross myself in it.. as it does fascinate me.. [ the law I mean]sadly its also as dry as a bone...for me...if you can bear with me I may come back to you on this....

greg read alintas link...

grap.. you do have a point...

alinta many cases have been thrown out... because of what someone elses interpretation of the law was...

the law and those who manage it are not perfect by any standards....

and some lawyers have been known to go to the lowest regions to get their client off.... Roll Eyes

..

I am surprised in this case they didnt blame Alison...for nagging maybe.. Angry

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139947 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #190 - Dec 29^th, 2015 at 12:41pm cods wrote on Dec 29^th, 2015 at 12:32pm: NO NOT THIS ONE...if there is a law that says its okay to change a murder result to a manslaughter one.. without going through the court..... It went through the Court of Appeal.
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Aussie

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #191 - Dec 29^th, 2015 at 1:05pm

Quote:

I am surprised in this case they didnt blame Alison...for nagging maybe..

One of the possible reasons for the existence of 'her' fingernail scratches (if indeed that is what they were) on his face was that she may have come up behind him, clawed his face and in some instant reaction (not involving an intent to kill) of his, she died (remember also.....there is no evidence as to the cause of her death....so all reasonable bets are on.) I never did see any evidence of any tissue found under her nails or an explanation for the lack thereof.

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red baron

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #192 - Dec 29^th, 2015 at 1:09pm

Courier Mail:

QUEENSLAND’S top prosecutor has privately told the Queensland Government he will appeal to the High Court to reinstate Gerard Baden-Clay’s murder conviction.

Director of Public Prosecutions Michael Byrne, QC, informed the Government before Christmas he intended to file for special leave for an appeal on January 4 — the eve of an appeal deadline and same day the High Court’s registry reopens after its holiday shutdown, The Courier Mail reports.

It comes after widespread public protests over the decision to downgrade Baden-Clay’s charge to manslaughter.

After such a Public Backlash, the Queensland Government are shi..ting themselves that they will be slaughtered at the Polls over this Judicial ineptitude. This Appeal was always going to be 'ON'. Wouldn't mind betting that they try and do a little "Judge Shopping too heh! heh! Yes of course Aussie, it never happens (heh! heh! heh!) Red Baron

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Aussie

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #193 - Dec 29^th, 2015 at 1:30pm

red baron wrote on Dec 29^th, 2015 at 1:09pm:

Courier Mail:

QUEENSLAND’S top prosecutor has privately told the Queensland Government he will appeal to the High Court to reinstate Gerard Baden-Clay’s murder conviction.

Director of Public Prosecutions Michael Byrne, QC, informed the Government before Christmas he intended to file for special leave for an appeal on January 4 — the eve of an appeal deadline and same day the High Court’s registry reopens after its holiday shutdown, The Courier Mail reports.

It comes after widespread public protests over the decision to downgrade Baden-Clay’s charge to manslaughter.

After such a Public Backlash, the Queensland Government are shi..ting themselves that they will be slaughtered at the Polls over this Judicial ineptitude. This Appeal was always going to be 'ON'. Wouldn't mind betting that they try and do a little "Judge Shopping too heh! heh! Yes of course Aussie, it never happens (heh! heh! heh!) Red Baron

I seriously doubt your suggestion that the Government is schitting itself. We are two years off an election, and this issue, if it was left as is right now, would by then be a distant and irrelevant memory, if even that.

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Aussie Gold Member Online OzPolitic Posts: 38869 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #194 - Dec 29^th, 2015 at 1:31pm I wonder if cods et al will accept the decision if the High Court (should there be an appeal ~ as opposed to yet another schmedia report there might be one) also concludes that a manslaughter conviction was the only one open, on the evidence?
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