Australian Politics Forum - Baden Clay wins appeal.

Aussie

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #330 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 1:21pm

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:43am:

Aussie wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:16am:

Neferti wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 10:09am:

We have already gone over (and over) this in a previous thread:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1405464642/0

Funny how some contributors in that Thread predicted the Appeal outcome almost to a tee, Kytro particularly.

only a 50 50 chance of being correct...

Cheesy

..

the way the law is written in QLD>..

I am amazed they didnt go for .provocation

whos to say he wasnt?..

she sounds a real bitch. Roll Eyes

Why would you be amazed? Provocation has no relevance in any Trial involving a reaction if it is such as is likely to cause death or grievous bodily harm to the 'victim.' Further, it would have been absurd to raise in any positive way, given Baden-Clay's denial of any involvement, including a provoked involvement.

What 'rights' would you want the family of a 'victim' to have, cods?

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #331 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 1:33pm

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:27am:

Kytro wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 9:17am:

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:59am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 30^th, 2015 at 10:24pm:

There is no proof positive of HOW she died............ where do you get 'strangulation'

she could have been suffocated maybe with a plastic bag..... she could have scratched him if he came up behind her......

why did he dump her and then act all the while like she had just left the house whilst he was asleep... Roll Eyes

if he could prove she died in an accident...why didnt he... dont tell me he panicked...he was solid as a rock..

sorry he had plenty of time to come clean....before they found her....

to me all the lying and denial all adds to his guilt not the other way around....

and its been 2.3 years and now they are saying he was an accident.........well well well.

None of which discounts the possibility it was accidental. and that's the key point. That's why the initial appeal was successful. Murder may be a better explanation, but that's not the point. the point is there is another explanation.

well suggesting he put a plastic bag over her head..

is hardly accidental..... in my book anyway...

Yes - but it remains only a suggestion - not a proven fact....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #332 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 1:36pm

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:40am:

one of the things that bothers me most.... is that the murderer is listened to.. he/she has so many rights of recourse...they have lawyers on demand at their beck and call...and can insist on an appeal...no matter what...

yet the families of the victim.. are at the mercy of the DPP..they are literally silenced by the system...all they can do is sit and wait for the person who took the life from their loved ones is released...many many months ahead opf any sentence he/she may have been given....

they are basically shadows...

all I know is I would never like to be a victim before our courts....our system fights for the criminals...

Remember Dirty Harry?

"Who speaks for (name forgotten - the victim)?"

"The District Attorney and the people... if you let us!"

This means due process speaks for the victim and the family..... be careful that we do not descend any further into a form of Sharia law or tribal justice...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Kytro

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #333 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 1:46pm

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:27am:

Kytro wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 9:17am:

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:59am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 30^th, 2015 at 10:24pm:

There is no proof positive of HOW she died............ where do you get 'strangulation'

she could have been suffocated maybe with a plastic bag..... she could have scratched him if he came up behind her......

why did he dump her and then act all the while like she had just left the house whilst he was asleep... Roll Eyes

if he could prove she died in an accident...why didnt he... dont tell me he panicked...he was solid as a rock..

sorry he had plenty of time to come clean....before they found her....

to me all the lying and denial all adds to his guilt not the other way around....

and its been 2.3 years and now they are saying he was an accident.........well well well.

None of which discounts the possibility it was accidental. and that's the key point. That's why the initial appeal was successful. Murder may be a better explanation, but that's not the point. the point is there is another explanation.

well suggesting he put a plastic bag over her head..

is hardly accidental..... in my book anyway...

Suggested, but not proven.

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Kytro

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #334 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 1:52pm

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:40am:

one of the things that bothers me most.... is that the murderer is listened to.. he/she has so many rights of recourse...they have lawyers on demand at their beck and call...and can insist on an appeal...no matter what...

Actually not "no matter what". You can't just appeal because you want to, there needs to be a matter of law. The appeals process exists to ensure that mistakes can be corrected.

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:40am:

yet the families of the victim.. are at the mercy of the DPP..they are literally silenced by the system...all they can do is sit and wait for the person who took the life from their loved ones is released...many many months ahead opf any sentence he/she may have been given....

The justice system is there for society, it's not a revenge machine for victims, nor should it be. We need to take care of victims, certainly, but making them feel better isn't the job of the justice system. That's counter-productive for society. The job of the justice system is to help protect society and reduce crime.

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #335 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 4:53pm

Neferti wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:44am:

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:32am:

I am sorry to hear you say that nef... as coming out with a manslaughter instead of murder tag will make a HUGE difference to someone of this character...

I have been reading a lot about this and I can see why they reduced it to manslaughter. It doesn't make him any less a MURDERER and I hope he still gets Life with 15 years before he can apply for Parole. He'll be 60 in 15 years and will have missed out on all those females that he chases. He is a RAKE i.e. Quote:

a man, especially one who is rich or with a high social position, who lives in an immoral way, especially having sex with a lot of women

He won't get much of that in Wolston. Grin

well he has never admitted anything... so in his mind and I am sure mummy and daddies he didnt do it..

and look at the evidence that the jury didnt gear or see..

Quote:

GBC was looking for women on the world’s largest sex, dating and swingers site on New Year’s Eve 2010

“Looking for discrete (sic) sex,” Gerard Baden-Clay typed.

“Married but don’t want to be – looking for some sex on the side!”

if she the victim had been up to those tricks I am sure it would have been allowed...

it really pizzzzzzzes me off.. and I dont think 15 years is LIFE....not by any imagination..25.to 30...or

as with Ivan throw away the key...

we have dreadful laws in this country that can be manipulated by any means if you have the money to pay these people..... and this guy seems to have that...

when he comes out he will live happily ever after...

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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #336 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 4:54pm Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 1:33pm: Yes - but it remains only a suggestion - not a proven fact. I agree and so does.... it was an accident... although proof isnt needed in this case just as you say a SUGGESTION.
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #337 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 4:56pm

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 4:53pm:

Neferti wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:44am:

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:32am:

I am sorry to hear you say that nef... as coming out with a manslaughter instead of murder tag will make a HUGE difference to someone of this character...

I have been reading a lot about this and I can see why they reduced it to manslaughter. It doesn't make him any less a MURDERER and I hope he still gets Life with 15 years before he can apply for Parole. He'll be 60 in 15 years and will have missed out on all those females that he chases. He is a RAKE i.e. Quote:

a man, especially one who is rich or with a high social position, who lives in an immoral way, especially having sex with a lot of women

He won't get much of that in Wolston. Grin

well he has never admitted anything... so in his mind and I am sure mummy and daddies he didnt do it..

and look at the evidence that the jury didnt gear or see..

Quote:

GBC was looking for women on the world’s largest sex, dating and swingers site on New Year’s Eve 2010

“Looking for discrete (sic) sex,” Gerard Baden-Clay typed.

“Married but don’t want to be – looking for some sex on the side!”

if she the victim had been up to those tricks I am sure it would have been allowed...

it really pizzzzzzzes me off.. and I dont think 15 years is LIFE....not by any imagination..25.to 30...or

as with Ivan throw away the key...

we have dreadful laws in this country that can be manipulated by any means if you have the money to pay these people..... and this guy seems to have that...

when he comes out he will live happily ever after...

Kill him!

cods, your answer please?

Quote:

What 'rights' would you want the family of a 'victim' to have, cods?

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red baron

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #338 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 5:52pm

I have been reading all this too Cods but I can't find a single reason why his conviction should be downgraded to Manslaughter.

The big question you have to ask yourself is...IS BADEN CLAY having a giant lend of everyone, I say he is, with bells on. Never bullsh.t a bullsh..ter!!!!!

Baden Clay is a bona fide Murderer, most probably a Sociopath too. Don't know what the eggheads think about him but he ticks all the boxes for mine.

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Aussie

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #339 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 6:15pm

red baron wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 5:52pm:

I have been reading all this too Cods but I can't find a single reason why his conviction should be downgraded to Manslaughter.

The big question you have to ask yourself is...IS BADEN CLAY having a giant lend of everyone, I say he is, with bells on. Never bullsh.t a bullsh..ter!!!!!

Baden Clay is a bona fide Murderer, most probably a Sociopath too. Don't know what the eggheads think about him but he ticks all the boxes for mine.

What can I say other than three Supreme Court Judges found several. Gee.............can anyone guess which horse I'll back here?

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Neferti

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #340 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 6:21pm

Fortunately (or unfortunately) the LAW says that one is INNOCENT until proved GUILTY.

EVERYBODY knows that GBC killed Allison. That's a given!

However it has NOT been PROVED. The Post Mortem didn't come up with anything, nor did the DNA. The Autopsy was "inconclusive". She could have been punched in the face, she could have been suffocated/strangled by her top.

What we do know is that she was NOT drunk, drugged or otherwise and jumped off the bridge.

HE is GUILTY and deserves a LONG stay in a 9x9 room MINUS the girls, iPhone, etc. He might even establish a liking for anal. Wink

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Alinta

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #341 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 6:24pm

red baron wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 5:52pm:

I have been reading all this too Cods but I can't find a single reason why his conviction should be downgraded to Manslaughter.

The big question you have to ask yourself is...IS BADEN CLAY having a giant lend of everyone, I say he is, with bells on. Never bullsh.t a bullsh..ter!!!!!

Baden Clay is a bona fide Murderer, most probably a Sociopath too. Don't know what the eggheads think about him but he ticks all the boxes for mine.

Personally, I think he is a vile person....beneath contempt.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find too many people who would say "nice man"

However, that is irrelevant to comment/s I make about the trial, appeals and points of law etc.......can't let personal feelings into play.

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Aussie

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #342 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 6:34pm

Alinta wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 6:24pm:

red baron wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 5:52pm:

I have been reading all this too Cods but I can't find a single reason why his conviction should be downgraded to Manslaughter.

The big question you have to ask yourself is...IS BADEN CLAY having a giant lend of everyone, I say he is, with bells on. Never bullsh.t a bullsh..ter!!!!!

Baden Clay is a bona fide Murderer, most probably a Sociopath too. Don't know what the eggheads think about him but he ticks all the boxes for mine.

Personally, I think he is a vile person....beneath contempt.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find too many people who would say "nice man"

However, that is irrelevant to comment/s I make about the trial, appeals and points of law etc.......can't let personal feelings into play.

That is of interest.....before you jump in the cool pool.

If the manslaughter outcome is upheld after the High Court has done its job..............tell me.....why......given he caused (without intent to kill) her death?

Is it because:

1. He had an affair...
2. He was broke...
3. (After she was no longer feeling anything at all.....deceased) he did.........x....y.....z to cover up an 'innocent' event everyone of us could face in a domestic violence situation?

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Neferti

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #343 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 6:46pm

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 4:53pm:

well he has never admitted anything... so in his mind and I am sure mummy and daddies he didnt do it..

and look at the evidence that the jury didnt gear or see..

Quote:

GBC was looking for women on the world’s largest sex, dating and swingers site on New Year’s Eve 2010

“Looking for discrete (sic) sex,” Gerard Baden-Clay typed.

“Married but don’t want to be – looking for some sex on the side!”

if she the victim had been up to those tricks I am sure it would have been allowed...

it really pizzzzzzzes me off.. and I dont think 15 years is LIFE....not by any imagination..25.to 30...or

as with Ivan throw away the key...

we have dreadful laws in this country that can be manipulated by any means if you have the money to pay these people..... and this guy seems to have that...

when he comes out he will live happily ever after...

GBC is GUILTY. Nobody says his isn't, except his parents who think the sun shines out of his arse.

The problem is there there was little forensic evidence. The body was found 10 days after death ... the autopsy was "inconclusive" ...

He murdered his wife. That we know. However, there is no evidence to support that it was "intentional".

IF a normal person ACCIDENTALLY caused his wife/girlfriend or whatever to begin to SUFFOCATE, for whatever reason, wouldn't YOU decide "geeze, I am about to KILL the woman I love?"

Innocent until found guilty. Unfortunately and the Lawyers have a field day.

If I accidentally hurt or killed somebody, I would call 000. NOT hide the body and pretend innocent.

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #344 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 6:47pm

red baron wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 5:52pm:

I have been reading all this too Cods but I can't find a single reason why his conviction should be downgraded to Manslaughter.

The big question you have to ask yourself is...IS BADEN CLAY having a giant lend of everyone, I say he is, with bells on. Never bullsh.t a bullsh..ter!!!!!

Baden Clay is a bona fide Murderer, most probably a Sociopath too. Don't know what the eggheads think about him but he ticks all the boxes for mine.

I read the autopsy report....and it really didnt satisfy me...if I was the mother of the dead women I would have asked for a second one....

the fact that there was no way of telling where she landed or how she landed.. nothing broken.....yet we know she fell 14 mtrs.....tells me an awful lot of evidence was missing...he couldnt even say if she drowned...well more or less.. ... how difficult it was to tell......

ok maybe I read to many true crime books...but I was kind of expecting more to be honest...........surely if anyone would have known how long Allison had a chipped tooth her children or her husband or her mum would have had an idea... Roll Eyes

... well I would have at least asked...he said strangulation doesnt always mean damages to the neck.....if the fabric was wide enough.. well her jacket with fists enclosed was up around her neck...wasnt it??....where it appears to have remained for 11 days.

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