Australian Politics Forum - Baden Clay wins appeal.

cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #360 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:29am

Neferti wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:55pm:

Kat wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:45pm:

I am getting BLOODY sick of hearing and reading about this.

A manslaughter verdict is perfectly reasonable and acceptable, as is the jail-term, given the circumstances.

Accept it, and shut the HELL up!

I AGREE.

However.

The Gaol Term was LIFE with 15 years before Parole. NOW since he has had his sentence reduced from MURDER to MANSLAUGHTER it could mean that he will be out in 10 years.

IF it was your relative who was MURDERED, would you be happy with 10 years?

are you glad Ivan Milat wasnt tried in QLd nef???...

wouldnt he have come under the same top of 20 years... Roll Eyes

,,, he would be close to coming out...

maybe they mean the life of a cat... when they talk a life sentence up there... Roll Eyes

just sayin.

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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #361 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:31am Kat wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:45pm: I am getting BLOODY sick of hearing and reading about this. A manslaughter verdict is perfectly reasonable and acceptable, as is the jail-term, given the circumstances. Accept it, and shut the HELL up! you can always pizzzzzzzzzzz off.. no one will stop you.
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Kytro

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #362 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:49am

Neferti wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:55pm:

Kat wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:45pm:

I am getting BLOODY sick of hearing and reading about this.

A manslaughter verdict is perfectly reasonable and acceptable, as is the jail-term, given the circumstances.

Accept it, and shut the HELL up!

I AGREE.

However.

The Gaol Term was LIFE with 15 years before Parole. NOW since he has had his sentence reduced from MURDER to MANSLAUGHTER it could mean that he will be out in 10 years.

IF it was your relative who was MURDERED, would you be happy with 10 years?

I shouldn't have any say it in. The system isn't there for victims and it shouldn't be. They need support and comfort, but not revenge

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #363 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 12:11pm

Kytro wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:49am:

Neferti wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:55pm:

Kat wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:45pm:

I am getting BLOODY sick of hearing and reading about this.

A manslaughter verdict is perfectly reasonable and acceptable, as is the jail-term, given the circumstances.

Accept it, and shut the HELL up!

I AGREE.

However.

The Gaol Term was LIFE with 15 years before Parole. NOW since he has had his sentence reduced from MURDER to MANSLAUGHTER it could mean that he will be out in 10 years.

IF it was your relative who was MURDERED, would you be happy with 10 years?

I shouldn't have any say it in. The system isn't there for victims and it shouldn't be. They need support and comfort, but not revenge

why is it REVENGE to want to have a say...a right of reply...

if said murderer can have all sorts of reasons to appeal.. as you say...

they have to have REASONS..

why cannot the victims side.. also have reasons.. to oppose.. said claims... Roll Eyes

why is it REVENGE..........what ever happened to JUSTICE fair play... equal playing fields......oh sorry thats only for the defendant Angry

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #364 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 12:18pm

Neferti wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:48pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:30pm:

#3 is a deliberate challenge, and you are right to leave it alone tonight. I'm not even on my first VB but I will have a few later when ankle biters go to sleep. It always had me a tad bewildered. We allow medical students to do what they like with cadavers, yet we get all hairy chested and emotional about what others do when ...... life is extinct, and.......well.........nothing. I really hope no-one gives a rat's arse what happens to me after I am deceased. Have your evil way if you must. "No skin off my nose." Heck....there may even be a bitch fight about whether I'll be buried or burned. Guess what? I've long lost interest by then.

The offence of 'interfering with a corpse' was always a mystery to me.

So, strangling/suffocating your wife/partner in the house and then moving the body to, say, a bridge and throwing it over, is OK with YOU, Aussie?

It is an OFFENCE! You do know what an offence is, don't you? Grin

an offence to interfere with a body in other words touch it.. or move it...

is a mystery...... Roll Eyes

to someone...

well I never....

if your dead who cares..........well I guess I hadnt looked at it that way...... Roll Eyes

medical students and murder suspects are all classed the same way now.. maybe only in Qld...

I do hope no morticians read this.. Roll Eyes

someone calls it interfering....with a corpse..

again I have never heard it called that....only in a crime scene.... but then I dont live in QLd.. where I am sure its all pretty well normal.. Cheesy

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38870 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #365 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 12:33pm They've even heard about it in Canberra, cods. See the Crimes Act. As for Queensland and Baden Clay.....read....get all hairy chested and sign the Petition: Link.
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Alinta

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #366 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 12:34pm

cods wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 12:18pm:

Neferti wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:48pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:30pm:

#3 is a deliberate challenge, and you are right to leave it alone tonight. I'm not even on my first VB but I will have a few later when ankle biters go to sleep. It always had me a tad bewildered. We allow medical students to do what they like with cadavers, yet we get all hairy chested and emotional about what others do when ...... life is extinct, and.......well.........nothing. I really hope no-one gives a rat's arse what happens to me after I am deceased. Have your evil way if you must. "No skin off my nose." Heck....there may even be a bitch fight about whether I'll be buried or burned. Guess what? I've long lost interest by then.

The offence of 'interfering with a corpse' was always a mystery to me.

So, strangling/suffocating your wife/partner in the house and then moving the body to, say, a bridge and throwing it over, is OK with YOU, Aussie?

It is an OFFENCE! You do know what an offence is, don't you? Grin

an offence to interfere with a body in other words touch it.. or move it...

is a mystery...... Roll Eyes

to someone...

well I never....

if your dead who cares..........well I guess I hadnt looked at it that way...... Roll Eyes

medical students and murder suspects are all classed the same way now.. maybe only in Qld...

I do hope no morticians read this.. Roll Eyes

someone calls it interfering....with a corpse..

again I have never heard it called that....only in a crime scene.... but then I dont live in QLd.. where I am sure its all pretty well normal.. Cheesy

Yep Cods.........med students and undertakers are excluded from the offence provisions......lawful purpose

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BigOl64

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #367 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 12:50pm

Kytro wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:49am:

I shouldn't have any say it in. The system isn't there for victims and it shouldn't be. They need support and comfort, but not revenge

The QLD legal system is very pro-criminal, the worst the crime the greater the leniency. If our judges and magistrates can weasel a free walk for any POS scum-bag they will certainly make it happen.

Don't worry about revenge, as a victim you'll be flat out getting justice.

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Kytro

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #368 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 2:05pm

cods wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 12:11pm:

why is it REVENGE to want to have a say...a right of reply...

if said murderer can have all sorts of reasons to appeal.. as you say...

they have to have REASONS..

why cannot the victims side.. also have reasons.. to oppose.. said claims... Roll Eyes

why is it REVENGE..........what ever happened to JUSTICE fair play... equal playing fields......oh sorry thats only for the defendant Angry

That's really what revenge is, retaliation for harm.

Appeals are about matters of law, and to reduce mistakes. Victims don't get an appeal because they are not on trial. They don't go to have someone locked up and treated harshly simply because they feel they are guilty and should be. The state prosecutes, and can also appeal matters of law, victims don't prosecute.

Justice isn't about giving back to individual victims, it's for our society.

Criminal proceedings are between the state and defendant, not the victim.

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #369 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 2:20pm Kytro wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:49am: I shouldn't have any say it in. The system isn't there for victims and it shouldn't be. They need support and comfort, but not revenge Rubbish. Its quite natural and proper to seek revenge. Most victims Ive come across look for it through the judicial system, many dont get it.
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Aussie

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #370 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 2:27pm

ian wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 2:20pm:

Kytro wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:49am:

I shouldn't have any say it in. The system isn't there for victims and it shouldn't be. They need support and comfort, but not revenge

Rubbish. Its quite natural and proper to seek revenge. Most victims Ive come across look for it through the judicial system, many dont get it.

No one should or can get....revenge.....in the judicial system. That is not its role.

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red baron

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #371 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 2:46pm

I think your advice Aussie to a poster..'to get all hairy chested and sign the petition is petty and patronising.

We are talking about the MURDER of Allison Baden Clay.

A Jury found Baden Clay guilty of Murder. Three Judges turned the evidence to mush and let him off with Manslaughter.

Manslaughter means he killed her. Are you saying Aussie that he somehow killed her but didn't mean to or there were mitigating circumstances?

It can only mean that can't it?

I'm not buying that scenario for one second. Every bit of my Police training tells me Baden Clay is and out and out cold blooded killer, most probably a sociopath because of how he reacted post discovery of Allison's body.

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Neferti

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #372 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 2:55pm

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:11pm:

I know that... but look at what the jury were not permitted to see or hear...

seems to me.. she the victim... was even said to be depressed.... when in fact it appears she was more fed up and angry.....but they made quite an issue of her being depressed...but then she couldnt answer for herself could she...

I am talking about the LAW.. the rights they give the ACCUSED...he gets protection but the victims they dont seem to count

Cods, everyone is entitled to the "right to a fair trial", presumption of innocence is one such right. Some things are kept back from the Jury so as not to influence their decision, otherwise it could end up as a mistrial, I think. (Aussie will undoubtedly tell me if I am incorrect. Wink

)

The "victim" is the murdered woman, Allison! She cannot speak for herself, obviously. The autopsy didn't find more than her normal dose of meds in her system. She did NOT commit suicide by swallowing pills and jumping off the bridge. GBC LIED through his teeth (and is still lying). The autopsy report regarding the cause of her death was "inconclusive".

The LAW is supposed to be fair and everybody is innocent until PROVED guilty. You didn't want GBC to walk out a FREE MAN because of some inconsistencies did you? He was found GUILTY by the Jury and he Appealed and Judge/s found reason to reduce the Murder to Manslaughter. He is still a Murderer!

I do feel sorry for Allison, her kids and her parents. You would have to be a very cruel person not to. I have my fingers crossed that GBC still gets "Life" with 15 years before being ELIGIBLE for Parole .... it doesn't mean that it is automatic.

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« Last Edit: Jan 1^st, 2016 at 3:00pm by Neferti »

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Aussie

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #373 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 3:07pm

red baron wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 2:46pm:

I think your advice Aussie to a poster..'to get all hairy chested and sign the petition is petty and patronising.

We are talking about the MURDER of Allison Baden Clay.

We were. We are now talking about the manslaughter of Allison. Did you read the link. You will see it is directly relevant and signing that Petition will give cods more satisfaction than just banging on about it on line here.

Quote:

A Jury found Baden Clay guilty of Murder. Three Judges turned the evidence to mush and let him off with Manslaughter.

The Appeal Court did nothing of the kind. It looked at the evidence dispassionately, clinically, forensically and determined there was insufficient evidence to prove an intent to kill, beyond reasonable doubt.

Quote:

Manslaughter means he killed her. Are you saying Aussie that he somehow killed her but didn't mean to or there were mitigating circumstances?

Other than your last proposition, that is exactly what the Appeal Court (in effect) concluded but it put in the correct terminology which is....there was sufficient evidence for the Jury to conclude beyond reasonable doubt that, somehow, he caused her death (I disagree with that, by the way) but insufficient evidence as to intent to kill.

Given that Baden Clay denied all involvement, it is impossible to argue that he did it in circumstances of mitigation.

Quote:

It can only mean that can't it?

No, as I have explained.

Quote:

I'm not buying that scenario for one second. Every bit of my Police training tells me Baden Clay is and out and out cold blooded killer, most probably a sociopath because of how he reacted post discovery of Allison's body.

No one denies your right to a point of view, but I trust you'll forgive me and the Appeal Court who have the view there was insufficient proof of intent, and for myself, insufficient evidence that he caused her death....but the Umpire has given his decision on that matter.

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Neferti

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #374 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 3:08pm

Aussie wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:30pm:

The offence of 'interfering with a corpse' was always a mystery to me.

That could get you 2 Years in Queensland. As a Defense Lawyer, you should know that!

Quote:

CRIMINAL CODE - SECT 236
236 Misconduct with regard to corpses

Any person who, without lawful justification or excuse, the proof of which lies on the personâ€”

(a) neglects to perform any duty imposed upon the person by law, or undertaken by the person, whether for reward or otherwise, touching the burial or other disposition of a human body or human remains; or

(b) improperly or indecently interferes with, or offers any indignity to, any dead human body or human remains, whether buried or not;

is guilty of a misdemeanour, and is liable to imprisonment for 2 years.

LINK

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