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Baden Clay wins appeal. (Read 100132 times)
Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #645 - Jan 10th, 2016 at 1:20pm
 
cods wrote on Jan 10th, 2016 at 9:52am:
Panther wrote on Jan 10th, 2016 at 8:56am:
MHO.....judge only trials are too subject to individual corruption, for it's far to easy to develop bias in the mind of a single jurist, as opposed to 12 average, basically honest & unbiased people, examined by both the  prosecution & defense to be so, who are set to decide your fate to the best of their ability based on fact & truth.

Judge only trials are too often the tools of a tyrannical government, far too disinterested in truth & justice.




i dont see that at all.. our system is pretty well in safe hands..for the most part....I wouldnt like it like America where they get elected to the bench...

what annoys me with this appeal judgement..its all about interpretation....and we each see things differently.....

we can read the simplest sentence in different ways..

just look at how we read HISTORY...politics... we arent there so we put our own spin on what we THINK HAPPENED...and each one is different...

its the way we are...we are not programmed

and I am sorry but manslaughter and murder....are two totally different things....

and to bring it down to the interpretation of the law

as 3 wisemen would reason it...

they do after all have other cases to compare with...

but which no jury would have reason to know about.. in fact an awful lot is withheld from juries........

it  is imo wrong..   

nothing we can do about it.. we have to accept the verdict when it comes.. but we dont have to like it.. if it remains manslaughter.....



There speaks the voice of absolute lack of experience..
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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red baron
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #646 - Jan 10th, 2016 at 4:37pm
 
Why...Aussie...you want why?

There are a million reasons why from a desperate man at the end of his rope.

Caught out numerous times on being a philanderer, his business in a shambolic state, facing financial ruin.

At odds with his wife over his cheating.

Now...WHY has Gerard Baden-Clay not come out and confessed that he accidentally killed his wife? He has the three wise monkeys on his case and he would do only 6 years (average) as against a Life Sentence for Murder.

The reason why he hasn't come out is that the three wise monkeys have already done all his spade work for him.

On his behalf in a grand gesture towards Justice, the three wise monkeys have hypothesized that he 'Accidentally killed his wife'.

Gerard can put his feet up on the desk and wait for the dust to settle.

It is a fact that only 11% of Appeals get up in the High Court so if he plays it cool, which he has so far, he is highly likely to do only six years for murdering Allison Baden-Clay.

Not bad...FOR MURDER. (No that wasn't a typo)


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« Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2016 at 5:11pm by red baron »  
 
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red baron
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #647 - Jan 10th, 2016 at 4:38pm
 
three wise monkeys, ...deaf, dumb and blind
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red baron
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #648 - Jan 10th, 2016 at 4:44pm
 
The Deep North...Queensland..where a decision by a Jury can be thrown out by three hypothesising Judges, who found he 'accidentally killed her', don't know where they got that information, it sure as hell didn't come from Gerard Baden-Clay.

Oh that's right...they HYPOTHESISED

If that's Justice Queensland style, then maybe the public there should resort to the good old old lynch mob.
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« Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2016 at 5:12pm by red baron »  
 
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red baron
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #649 - Jan 10th, 2016 at 4:44pm
 
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Neferti
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #650 - Jan 10th, 2016 at 4:44pm
 
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Neferti
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #651 - Jan 10th, 2016 at 4:45pm
 
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red baron
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #652 - Jan 10th, 2016 at 4:45pm
 
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #653 - Jan 10th, 2016 at 4:57pm
 
Quote:
Mark & Quote      Posted on: Today at 3:37pm
Why...Aussie...you want why?

There are a million reasons why from a desperate man at the end of his rope.

Caught out numerous times on being a philanderer, his business in a shambolic state, facing financial ruin.

At odds with his wife over his cheating.


I asked for evidence that he intended to kill his wife....not a re-run of the reasons he may have wished she was no longer part of his life.  We all gets the schitts at one time or another, and in some cases, that leads to a situation where physical interaction results.  That does not necessarily mean either party intended to kill the other.

Quote:
Now...WHY has Gerard Baden-Clay not come out and confessed that he accidentally killed his wife? He has the three wise monkeys on his case and he would do only 6 years (average) as against a Life Sentence for Murder.

The reason why he hasn't come out is that the three wise monkeys have already done all his spade work for him.


The reason is obvious.  He maintains that he had nothing to do with her death.....nothing at all.

Quote:
On his behalf in a grand gesture towards Justice, the three wise monkeys have hypothesized that he 'Accidentally killed his wide'.

Gerard can put his feet up on the desk and wait for the dust to settle.


No.....all the Appeal Court did was point out that the Prosecution had not presented sufficient evidence to establish beyond reasonable doubt that he had an intent to kill.  The Court did not say that he accidentally killed her.  They said that, so far as the evidence established, the Crown had not excluded that open hypothesis.

Quote:
It is a fact that only 11% of Appeals get up in the High Court so if he plays it cool, which he has so far, he is highly likely to do only six years for murdering Allison Baden-Clay.

Not bad...FOR MURDER. (No that wasn't a typo)


If the appeal to the High Court fails, and the manslaughter conviction stays, then I very much doubt he will get just six years. 

Lastly, in that link posted by Alinta concerning the WA Lawyer acquitted of murdering his Wife, there are excellent and very clear explanations on this very matter.  There are some quite remarkable similarities (and some differences) with the Baden-Clay case.  Have you read the link?  Takes about 15 minutes.

Some relevant paragraphs from that link to the WA case:



Quote:
The reliance by the State on circumstantial evidence requires that I consider the possibility that the proven facts do not necessarily point to guilt. A verdict of guilty cannot be returned unless the proven facts are such as to be inconsistent with any reasonable hypothesis other than that the accused is guilty. Guilt must not only be a rational inference, but it must be the only rational inference that the proven facts enable me to draw.

13

The drawing of inferences from proven facts is different from
speculation. There is no room in the criminal court for speculation or speculative theories. Inferences can only be drawn if the facts proven by the evidence properly support the drawing of the inferences.

14

In the context of circumstantial evidence, it is essential to apply
strictly the burden of proof. It would be entirely inappropriate to start with a presumption of guilt and then consider whether the evidence is consistent with that view. This is a process commonly adopted in everyday life, but it must be avoided in the criminal court. The accused is presumed to be innocent unless the evidence positively proves guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

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« Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2016 at 5:32pm by Aussie »  
 
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Neferti
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #654 - Jan 10th, 2016 at 5:25pm
 
For those you haven't seen it, here is a link to the official document of the Appeal Decision.


http://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment/2015/QCA15-265.pdf
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red baron
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #655 - Jan 10th, 2016 at 5:30pm
 
Let's have a good look at these words supplied courtesy of Aussie's Newspaper article:


In the judgement handed down on Tuesday, the Court of Appeal said while Baden-Clay lied about the cause of scratches on his face and tried to hide his wife's body, there was a reasonable hypothesis he was innocent of murder.


It could not be ruled out that there was a physical confrontation in which Allison fell and hit her head, the ruling by Chief Justice Catherine Holmes, Justice Hugh Fraser and Justice Robert Gotterson found.

"Smothering, the crown's thesis, was a reasonable possibility, but while there was also another reasonable possibility available on the evidence, the jury could not properly have been satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the element of intent to kill or do grievous bodily harm had been proved," Justice Fraser wrote in Tuesday's findings.


The Court apparently was satisfied that Gerard lied about the scratches on his face and that he tried to hide the body.


O.K....so the court is satisfied he killed her and there was a struggle and further that he did indeed hide her body.

Where does it come from that he didn't murder her?...He killed her didn't he? At what point during that desperate struggle for her life did Allison become reduced from an intended murder victim to a victim of accidental death?

I'm, damned how I can see that the Judges found this, given that he had high motivation in her being dead for the insurance money.  These lofty Judges are so far removed from the real world they need to get out more often.

Judge Fraser the Jury DID find reasonable cause and you and your idiot other two colleagues have watered down a very sound decision by a just Jury.


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Neferti
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #656 - Jan 10th, 2016 at 5:39pm
 
red baron wrote on Jan 10th, 2016 at 5:30pm:
Let's have a good look at these words supplied courtesy of Aussie's Newspaper article:


In the judgement handed down on Tuesday, the Court of Appeal said while Baden-Clay lied about the cause of scratches on his face and tried to hide his wife's body, there was a reasonable hypothesis he was innocent of murder.


It could not be ruled out that there was a physical confrontation in which Allison fell and hit her head, the ruling by Chief Justice Catherine Holmes, Justice Hugh Fraser and Justice Robert Gotterson found.

"Smothering, the crown's thesis, was a reasonable possibility, but while there was also another reasonable possibility available on the evidence, the jury could not properly have been satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the element of intent to kill or do grievous bodily harm had been proved," Justice Fraser wrote in Tuesday's findings.


The Court apparently was satisfied that Gerard lied about the scratches on his face and that he tried to hide the body.


O.K....so the court is satisfied he killed her and there was a struggle and further that he did indeed hide her body.

Where does it come from that he didn't murder her?...He killed her didn't he? At what point during that desperate struggle for her life did Allison become reduced from an intended murder victim to a victim of accidental death?

I'm, damned how I can see that the Judges found this, given that he had high motivation in her being dead for the insurance money.  These lofty Judges are so far removed from the real world they need to get out more often.

Judge Fraser the Jury DID find reasonable cause and you and your idiot other two colleagues have watered down a very sound decision by a just Jury.


Here is a link to the OFFICIAL text of the Appeal Decision (in case you missed it).

http://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment/2015/QCA15-265.pdf
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #657 - Jan 10th, 2016 at 5:50pm
 
Ah, you see Mr Baron, your penchant for the hyperbole and cliche is letting you down.  Take the emotive hysteria right out of this.  It plays no role in clinical Criminal Courts where the currency is cold hard evidence.

Quote:
Where does it come from that he didn't murder her?...He killed her didn't he?


Yeas, the Jury verdict and the decision of the Appeal Court confirm that he killed her...somehow caused her death.

Quote:
At what point during that desperate struggle for her life did Allison become reduced from an intended murder victim to a victim of accidental death?


What 'desperate struggle for life?'  Where, on the evidence, is that established beyond reasonable doubt? 

Quote:
I'm, damned how I can see that the Judges found this, given that he had high motivation in her being dead for the insurance money.  These lofty Judges are so far removed from the real world they need to get out more often.


That is where you are missing relevant points.  They did not find that the death was an unintended consequence of a possible domestic.  They found that, on the state of the evidence, that was a reasonable hypothesis which could not be excluded.  And....that he had a possible motive to kill her, i.e. the insurance money, does not and never could establish an intent to kill.  We'd all probably be better off financially if our spouse was dead.  If they did die in circumstances of mystery, that the living spouse benefited financially does not per se prove they intended to kill the deceased spouse.

Quote:
Judge Fraser the Jury DID find reasonable cause and you and your idiot other two colleagues have watered down a very sound decision by a just Jury.


It is self evident by virtue of the Appeal Court decision that Judge Fraser and the Jury were wrong.
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red baron
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #658 - Jan 10th, 2016 at 5:53pm
 
Thankyou Nefertiti, I have read the Judgement but I appreciate your post.
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #659 - Jan 10th, 2016 at 5:54pm
 

Brick wall, Aussie.

Red Baron and cods will just never get it.



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