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Baden Clay wins appeal. (Read 100096 times)
cods
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #675 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 12:20pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 10th, 2016 at 5:58pm:
red baron wrote on Jan 10th, 2016 at 5:30pm:
At what point during that desperate struggle for her life ...


Woah there boy!

Are you withholding information from the police, Red Baron.

And cods, too.

She seems to be certain that only one other person was at the scene.

The sooner our courts start listening to glorified parking inspectors and bored housewives, the better it'll be for all of us.







so you are saying.... NOT SO>....one dead... and two alive...OK.. TELL THAT TO THE COPS>>

thats even better news..

better still PUT IT ON FACEBOOK>.
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cods
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #676 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 12:49pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 12:04pm:
red baron wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 11:55am:
Actually Gregg, I gathered the majority of my information from the Court Papers.

I take it from your comments that you consider your own running commentary on this horsesh.t, you must if you draw a line through what you consider to be worthy comment and what isn't.

You see, unlike you, just because someone has a roll of paper under their arm and a black dressing gown on, I don't believe they can recognise the truth any easier than someone with a semblance of a brain can.

I don't put anyone above me. Life has taught me that there are a lot of bullsh.itters out there and none more so than those walking around in the legal profession.


I rest my case.

You're exactly the same as cods: you don't care what the law says.







WHAT DOES THE LAW ACTUALLY SAY ...

i have check FACEBOOK.. nothing on it at this stage...




DOES IT SAY....

BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT,...

should deal only with the act of death...


and what takes place afterwards

has not a thing to do with anything.???


which is what the court of appeal... has said...




The appeal court accepted it was open to the jury to conclude the scratches were from fingernails but their existence could not prove murder.

"[highlight]There is nothing about the facial scratches to indicate the circumstances in which they were inflicted; whether they occurred in the course of a heated and perhaps physical argument or in resisting a murderous attack," the judgment read.[/highlight]





The justices also found the Crown argument that dumping the body could infer Baden-Clay was concealing evidence of an intentional killing "amounted to nothing more than speculation".

The appeal court pointed to the couple's history and minimal physical evidence in the case too.

"There were no injuries on the body of a kind to indicate an intent to kill or do grievous bodily harm," the judgment read.

"Nor was there any sign of blood or evidence of a clean-up in the house to suggest violence.

"There was no evidence at all that there had ever been any violence in the relationship between the couple.

"A reasonably open hypothesis was that (Baden-Clay's) wife had attacked him, scratching his face.

"In endeavouring to make her stop he had killed her without intending to do so, with his conduct thereafter being attributable to panic.

Acting Attorney-General Cameron Dick is seeking legal advice about appealing today's decision on the fate of Gerard Baden-Clay.

The Attorney-General must make a decision on any possible appeal within 28 days.

HOW THEY REACTED

Peter Shields, the lawyer for Gerard Baden-Clay, asked the public to read the judgment themselves (see below).

"They'll then be able to read for themselves the very considered reasons of a very experienced court," he said.

"They explain in very simple easy-to-understand language how they came to the conclusion that they did.

"I think it's important for the public to understand that it's open justice … they can make their own view based on the facts as the court has."










EARLIER: Baden-Clay's appeal against murder charge successful

THE Queensland Court of Appeal has upheld wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay's bid to overturn his murder conviction.

He has been found guilty of manslaughter instead and must make submissions on sentence.

The former real estate agent's lawyers argued in early August that the jury had erred in finding him guilty of murdering wife Allison at their Brookfield home in April 2012.

They told the court Baden-Clay could have unintentionally killed his wife Allison during an argument and dumped her body because "he panicked".

"While findings (Baden-Clay) lied about the cause of his facial injuries and had endeavoured to conceal his wife's body should not have been separated out from the other evidence in considering their effect, the difficulty is that, viewed in that way, the post-offence conduct evidence nonetheless remained neutral on the issue of intent," the judgment, handed down at 9.30am, read.

"To put it another way, there remained in this case a reasonable hypothesis consistent with innocence of murder: that there was a physical confrontation between the appellant and his wife in which he delivered a blow which killed her (for example, by the effects of a fall hitting her head against a hard surface) without intending to cause serious harm; and, in a state of panic and knowing that he had unlawfully killed her, h


how does anyone know HIS INTENT????.....


he had scratch marks on his face.. but they dont tell us he attacked her...

it tells us  she attacked him....

because dear fellow non believers...

she had no signs of her being abused when she was found under that bridge.11 days later???>..




unless gweggy has that 3rd person he seems to think may have been at the scene of the crime....

Quote:
And cods, too.

Quote:
She seems to be certain that only one other person was at the scene.
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cods
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #677 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 12:51pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 10th, 2016 at 6:15pm:
red baron wrote on Jan 10th, 2016 at 6:11pm:
Know what I did in my previous post Aussie and Greggary?

Based on the evidence presented I hypothesised at how Gerard murdered his wife.

After all, if its fair for the three wise monkeys to hypothesise how her life ended then why not me?


They're qualified.





if you read the post remarks by Gerards lawyer... he say the public are within their rights to make their own judgements....

thats of course only if you are  qualified public like aussie and gweggy I guess.... everyone else shut up.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #678 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 12:58pm
 
cods wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 12:51pm:
the public are within their rights to make their own judgements.


Yes, of course we are.

However, we can't expect the courts to change their minds based on our personal judgments.

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red baron
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #679 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 1:05pm
 
Rest what case Gregg?...You haven't argued any of the points in this case.

All the way, all you have done is what you always do. Carp, undermine, belittle but never add to intelligent argument.

I'm shining the light on you Gregg but you look like a little boy who has lost his way.

It's a bit like those little fish that swim with the sharks, they hang around, pick up the crumbs and never get eaten by the predator they feed off.
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red baron
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #680 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 1:06pm
 
*
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cods
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #681 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 1:06pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 12:58pm:
cods wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 12:51pm:
the public are within their rights to make their own judgements.


Yes, of course we are.

However, we can't expect the courts to change their minds based on our personal judgments.




yet you belittle myself and rb all the time for having a point of view..

WHY CANT WE EXPECT CHANGE..

the court of appeal CHANGED THE VERDICT OR THE CHARGE ..

why CANT WE THE PUBLIC>. demand change???..

we are not peasants any more...we dont like what is happening.. WE DEMAND CHANGE>..

its not hard...the are after all OUR SERVANTS

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red baron
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #682 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 1:06pm
 
In changing the outcome of the Gerard Baden-Clay case the Court of Appeal have exposed themselves as Judges, far removed from reality in not apparently seeing the huge motivation for Gerard Baden-Clay to Murder his wife, that is, GREED. One of the oldest motivations in the history of the world.

Yet..,.the Court of Appeal couldn't see it. Something that is obvious to 'blind Freddie' that Gerard was in dire financial trouble, that his personal life was fatally flawed.

Yet these Judges brought his conviction down from Murder to Manslaughter...are these Judges living on the same planet as the rest of us?

Patently, they are not. And thus have revealed a huge gaping hole in the System of Justice, one that needs a dramatic overhaul, like yesterday.
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« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2016 at 1:16pm by red baron »  
 
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #683 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 1:10pm
 
cods wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 12:20pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 10th, 2016 at 5:58pm:
red baron wrote on Jan 10th, 2016 at 5:30pm:
At what point during that desperate struggle for her life ...


Woah there boy!

Are you withholding information from the police, Red Baron.

And cods, too.

She seems to be certain that only one other person was at the scene.

The sooner our courts start listening to glorified parking inspectors and bored housewives, the better it'll be for all of us.







so you are saying.... NOT SO>...



I'm saying that we don't know.

I have absolutely no idea how many people were at the crime scene, so I'm not even going to take a guess.

You, however, seem to think there was just the victim and one other person.  What makes you so sure of that?


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greggerypeccary
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #684 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 1:14pm
 
red baron wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 1:05pm:
Rest what case Gregg?...


You and cods have no interest in what the law says, unless it is in line with what you personally believe.

That case, Red.

If the verdict is the one you want to hear - "Our courts are working fine".

If the verdict is not the one you want to hear - "Our courts are useless".

That case Red.
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #685 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 1:18pm
 
cods wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 12:49pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 12:04pm:
[quote author=red_baron18 link=1449536783/673#673 date=1452477348]Actually Gregg, I gathered the majority of my information from the Court Papers.

I take it from your comments that you consider your own running commentary on this horsesh.t, you must if you draw a line through what you consider to be worthy comment and what isn't.

You see, unlike you, just because someone has a roll of paper under their arm and a black dressing gown on, I don't believe they can recognise the truth any easier than someone with a semblance of a brain can.

I don't put anyone above me. Life has taught me that there are a lot of bullsh.itters out there and none more so than those walking around in the legal profession.


I rest my case.

You're exactly the same as cods: you don't care what the law says.







WHAT DOES THE LAW ACTUALLY SAY ...

i have check FACEBOOK.. nothing on it at this stage...

Facebook is never a reliable source of information.  Go to google instead.





DOES IT SAY....

BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT,...

should deal only with the act of death...

Yes.



and what takes place afterwards

has not a thing to do with anything.???

No.



which is what the court of appeal... has said...




The appeal court accepted it was open to the jury to conclude the scratches were from fingernails but their existence could not prove murder.

"[highlight]There is nothing about the facial scratches to indicate the circumstances in which they were inflicted; whether they occurred in the course of a heated and perhaps physical argument or in resisting a murderous attack," the judgment read.[/highlight]





The justices also found the Crown argument that dumping the body could infer Baden-Clay was concealing evidence of an intentional killing "amounted to nothing more than speculation".

The appeal court pointed to the couple's history and minimal physical evidence in the case too.

"There were no injuries on the body of a kind to indicate an intent to kill or do grievous bodily harm," the judgment read.

"Nor was there any sign of blood or evidence of a clean-up in the house to suggest violence.

"There was no evidence at all that there had ever been any violence in the relationship between the couple.

"A reasonably open hypothesis was that (Baden-Clay's) wife had attacked him, scratching his face.

"In endeavouring to make her stop he had killed her without intending to do so, with his conduct thereafter being attributable to panic.

Acting Attorney-General Cameron Dick is seeking legal advice about appealing today's decision on the fate of Gerard Baden-Clay.

The Attorney-General must make a decision on any possible appeal within 28 days.

HOW THEY REACTED

Peter Shields, the lawyer for Gerard Baden-Clay, asked the public to read the judgment themselves (see below).

"They'll then be able to read for themselves the very considered reasons of a very experienced court," he said.

"They explain in very simple easy-to-understand language how they came to the conclusion that they did.

"I think it's important for the public to understand that it's open justice … they can make their own view based on the facts as the court has."










EARLIER: Baden-Clay's appeal against murder charge successful

THE Queensland Court of Appeal has upheld wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay's bid to overturn his murder conviction.

He has been found guilty of manslaughter instead and must make submissions on sentence.

The former real estate agent's lawyers argued in early August that the jury had erred in finding him guilty of murdering wife Allison at their Brookfield home in April 2012.

They told the court Baden-Clay could have unintentionally killed his wife Allison during an argument and dumped her body because "he panicked".

"While findings (Baden-Clay) lied about the cause of his facial injuries and had endeavoured to conceal his wife's body should not have been separated out from the other evidence in considering their effect, the difficulty is that, viewed in that way, the post-offence conduct evidence nonetheless remained neutral on the issue of intent," the judgment, handed down at 9.30am, read.

"To put it another way, there remained in this case a reasonable hypothesis consistent with innocence of murder: that there was a physical confrontation between the appellant and his wife in which he delivered a blow which killed her (for example, by the effects of a fall hitting her head against a hard surface) without intending to cause serious harm; and, in a state of panic and knowing that he had unlawfully killed her, h
[/color]

how does anyone know HIS INTENT????.....

[color=#ff0000]Exactly.



he had scratch marks on his face.. but they dont tell us he attacked her...

it tells us  she attacked him....

because dear fellow non believers...

she had no signs of her being abused when she was found under that bridge.11 days later???>..




unless gweggy has that 3rd person he seems to think may have been at the scene of the crime....

[quote]And cods, too.

[quote]She seems to be certain that only one other
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red baron
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #686 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 1:20pm
 
Not at all Gregg. I work on facts, Policing drummed that into me.

The Case against Gerard Baden-Clay, is an overwhelmingly strong  circumstantial one.

You add all the factors of this case up and they come up with one outcome - Gerard Baden-Clay cold bloodedly murdered his wife.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #687 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 1:26pm
 
red baron wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 1:20pm:
Not at all Gregg. I work on facts, Policing drummed that into me.

The Case against Gerard Baden-Clay, is an overwhelmingly strong  circumstantial one.

You add all the factors of this case up and they come up with one outcome - Gerard Baden-Clay cold bloodedly murdered his wife.


I rest my case ... again.

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Aussie
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #688 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 1:26pm
 
red baron wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 1:20pm:
Not at all Gregg. I work on facts, Policing drummed that into me.

The Case against Gerard Baden-Clay, is an overwhelmingly strong  circumstantial one.

You add all the factors of this case up and they come up with one outcome - Gerard Baden-Clay cold bloodedly murdered his wife.


How is this hypothesis not available on the facts?

She found out about his affairs, she found out he was broke....she scratched his face...they had a confrontation outside so as not to disturb the kids.....she falls......hits head.....dies.  He panics, puts her in the car...dumps the body......gets home......and the rest is well known, and neutral on intent to kill.

Please explain what piece of evidence excludes that scenario.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #689 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 1:28pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 1:18pm:
unless gweggy has that 3rd person he seems to think may have been at the scene of the crime....


I never said that there was a third person at the scene.

I said:

"I have absolutely no idea how many people were at the crime scene, so I'm not even going to take a guess."

Why do you always lie, cods?

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