Australian Politics Forum - Baden Clay wins appeal.

Aussie

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #75 - Dec 10^th, 2015 at 2:46pm

Fuzzball wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 2:36pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 2:24pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 1:50pm:

Probably the best thing that can happen now is for the judge to sentence Baden-Clay to life imprisonment, which is the maximum penalty for manslaughter. If this was manslaughter, then it was a particularly severe case of manslaughter, and should warrant the maximum penalty.

Of course that is not what is going to happen, even though judges do take into account community standards.

So you would punish someone who had no intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm in the same way you would someone who killed with that specific explicit intent?

You missed one thing out of that........IMO

What is that?

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Alinta

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #76 - Dec 10^th, 2015 at 4:14pm

John_Taverner wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 1:50pm:

Probably the best thing that can happen now is for the judge to sentence Baden-Clay to life imprisonment, which is the maximum penalty for manslaughter. If this was manslaughter, then it was a particularly severe case of manslaughter, and should warrant the maximum penalty.

Of course that is not what is going to happen, even though judges do take into account community standards.

Interesting article that discusses resentencing........accords pretty much with sentencing guidelines.

I'd expect the manslaughter sentence to be on the severe rather than the light side.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gerard-badenclay-could-be-free-within...

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #77 - Dec 10^th, 2015 at 4:45pm

Alinta wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 4:14pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 1:50pm:

Probably the best thing that can happen now is for the judge to sentence Baden-Clay to life imprisonment, which is the maximum penalty for manslaughter. If this was manslaughter, then it was a particularly severe case of manslaughter, and should warrant the maximum penalty.

Of course that is not what is going to happen, even though judges do take into account community standards.

Interesting article that discusses resentencing........accords pretty much with sentencing guidelines.

I'd expect the manslaughter sentence to be on the severe rather than the light side.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gerard-badenclay-could-be-free-within...

Convicted wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay could potentially be a free man within months, legal experts have agreed, after his murder charge was downgraded to manslaughter on appeal.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gerard-badenclay-could-be-free-within-a-matter-of-months-legal-experts-20151208-glifcg.html#ixzz3tth4lXJX
Follow us: @brisbanetimes on Twitter | brisbanetimes on Facebook

did you read your link?????

the LAW is an ASS...

when we finally wake up to that fact... many more women will be dead....with no conviction... like the stolen generation..

everyone will be afraid to bring in a guilty verdict.... because it will automatically be overturned..

who the hell can say what his INTENTION was... Roll Eyes

so now they can say..

well if she hadnt hit him or spoken up or done this or done that...

she wouldnt be dead...and thrown over a bridge..

so it wasnt all his fault..

so let him out hes suffered enough...

too bad about her family.. who have no rights whatever....they can challenge nothing...

the fact he was twice as big as her doesnt come into it of course not...

I now await Cowans submission.... Angry

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Aussie

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #78 - Dec 10^th, 2015 at 4:53pm

Why would you seek to insult Alinta with this:

Quote:

did you read your link?????

She said she did, and you question her word?

Quote:

who the hell can say what his INTENTION was..

To successfully convict anyone of murder, you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he had an intention............to kill or cause grievous bodily harm.

Why are you ignoring what others are telling you in their posts?

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Alinta

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #79 - Dec 10^th, 2015 at 4:57pm

cods wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 4:45pm:

Alinta wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 4:14pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 1:50pm:

Probably the best thing that can happen now is for the judge to sentence Baden-Clay to life imprisonment, which is the maximum penalty for manslaughter. If this was manslaughter, then it was a particularly severe case of manslaughter, and should warrant the maximum penalty.

Of course that is not what is going to happen, even though judges do take into account community standards.

Interesting article that discusses resentencing........accords pretty much with sentencing guidelines.

I'd expect the manslaughter sentence to be on the severe rather than the light side.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gerard-badenclay-could-be-free-within...

Convicted wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay could potentially be a free man within months, legal experts have agreed, after his murder charge was downgraded to manslaughter on appeal.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gerard-badenclay-could-be-free-within-a-matter-of-months-legal-experts-20151208-glifcg.html#ixzz3tth4lXJX
Follow us: @brisbanetimes on Twitter | brisbanetimes on Facebook

did you read your link?????

the LAW is an ASS...

when we finally wake up to that fact... many more women will be dead....with no conviction... like the stolen generation..

everyone will be afraid to bring in a guilty verdict.... because it will automatically be overturned..

who the hell can say what his INTENTION was... Roll Eyes

so now they can say..

well if she hadnt hit him or spoken up or done this or done that...

she wouldnt be dead...and thrown over a bridge..

so it wasnt all his fault..

so let him out hes suffered enough...

too bad about her family.. who have no rights whatever....they can challenge nothing...

the fact he was twice as big as her doesnt come into it of course not...

I now await Cowans submission.... Angry

Of course I read it Cods........and several others.

The QLD Attorney General may well seek leave to appeal the downgraded charge in the High Court.....

if this doesn't happen, it is my view that Baden-Clay should and will receive a harsh manslaughter sentence for the reasons outlined in my link.

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #80 - Dec 10^th, 2015 at 4:59pm

I have posted many threads over the years about the leniency of our laws towards the criminals and harshness towards trivial offences

For the lefties - look up the difference between criminals and offences. You'll see the face of BokaHaram-Young

Back on topic. My particular outraged in previous topics have been with "repeat offenders"

You can blame the leniency of our laws on the social apologists e.g. Greens

If we don't like the punishment then put different people in - but never put in a Greens candidate

Just to make my point clear about Greens - never vote for them.

Although we don't agree with ISIS' moral compass - at least we know which direct it's pointed in. Does anyone know where the Greens' compass is pointing?

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #81 - Dec 10^th, 2015 at 5:42pm

Maqqa wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 4:59pm:

I have posted many threads over the years about the leniency of our laws towards the criminals and harshness towards trivial offences

For the lefties - look up the difference between criminals and offences. You'll see the face of BokaHaram-Young

Back on topic. My particular outraged in previous topics have been with "repeat offenders"

You can blame the leniency of our laws on the social apologists e.g. Greens

If we don't like the punishment then put different people in - but never put in a Greens candidate

Just to make my point clear about Greens - never vote for them.

Although we don't agree with ISIS' moral compass - at least we know which direct it's pointed in. Does anyone know where the Greens' compass is pointing?

how can you blame POLITICs for this mess...

isnt the LAW above POLITICS?..

I laugh at our laws now.. have lost faith a long time ago...and I see no reason to change my opinion..'

fat greedy lawyers getting fatter and greedier ..

I guess the legal aid for boat people is slowing down.. so this makes a new endeavor for them to keep the ching of money going into their bank accounts..

if they said a new trial... I can reason with that... but no......straight out... believe this boy....it wasnt his fault it was hers...

I can see the headlines now... Angry

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38868 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #82 - Dec 10^th, 2015 at 5:47pm Quote: it wasnt his fault it was hers... Exactly when did Baden Clay say that? (I note no apology to Alinta. Charming.)
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BlueBeard Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 387 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #83 - Dec 10^th, 2015 at 6:10pm sign the petition.
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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #84 - Dec 10^th, 2015 at 6:33pm

Alinta wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 4:57pm:

cods wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 4:45pm:

Alinta wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 4:14pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 1:50pm:

Probably the best thing that can happen now is for the judge to sentence Baden-Clay to life imprisonment, which is the maximum penalty for manslaughter. If this was manslaughter, then it was a particularly severe case of manslaughter, and should warrant the maximum penalty.

Of course that is not what is going to happen, even though judges do take into account community standards.

Interesting article that discusses resentencing........accords pretty much with sentencing guidelines.

I'd expect the manslaughter sentence to be on the severe rather than the light side.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gerard-badenclay-could-be-free-within...

Convicted wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay could potentially be a free man within months, legal experts have agreed, after his murder charge was downgraded to manslaughter on appeal.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gerard-badenclay-could-be-free-within-a-matter-of-months-legal-experts-20151208-glifcg.html#ixzz3tth4lXJX
Follow us: @brisbanetimes on Twitter | brisbanetimes on Facebook

did you read your link?????

the LAW is an ASS...

when we finally wake up to that fact... many more women will be dead....with no conviction... like the stolen generation..

everyone will be afraid to bring in a guilty verdict.... because it will automatically be overturned..

who the hell can say what his INTENTION was... Roll Eyes

so now they can say..

well if she hadnt hit him or spoken up or done this or done that...

she wouldnt be dead...and thrown over a bridge..

so it wasnt all his fault..

so let him out hes suffered enough...

too bad about her family.. who have no rights whatever....they can challenge nothing...

the fact he was twice as big as her doesnt come into it of course not...

I now await Cowans submission.... Angry

Of course I read it Cods........and several others.

The QLD Attorney General may well seek leave to appeal the downgraded charge in the High Court.....

if this doesn't happen, it is my view that Baden-Clay should and will receive a harsh manslaughter sentence for the reasons outlined in my link.

i was commenting on the first para in the link... it says he could be OUT very soon....thats all...

why would he get a tougher sentence than the one he already has if they are downgrading his charges...??

that wont happen alinta.that why the downgrade.

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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #85 - Dec 10^th, 2015 at 6:33pm BlueBeard wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 6:10pm: sign the petition. I hope you did..
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Alinta

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #86 - Dec 10^th, 2015 at 7:00pm

cods wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 6:33pm:

Alinta wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 4:57pm:

cods wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 4:45pm:

Alinta wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 4:14pm:

John_Taverner wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 1:50pm:

Probably the best thing that can happen now is for the judge to sentence Baden-Clay to life imprisonment, which is the maximum penalty for manslaughter. If this was manslaughter, then it was a particularly severe case of manslaughter, and should warrant the maximum penalty.

Of course that is not what is going to happen, even though judges do take into account community standards.

Interesting article that discusses resentencing........accords pretty much with sentencing guidelines.

I'd expect the manslaughter sentence to be on the severe rather than the light side.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gerard-badenclay-could-be-free-within...

Convicted wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay could potentially be a free man within months, legal experts have agreed, after his murder charge was downgraded to manslaughter on appeal.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gerard-badenclay-could-be-free-within-a-matter-of-months-legal-experts-20151208-glifcg.html#ixzz3tth4lXJX
Follow us: @brisbanetimes on Twitter | brisbanetimes on Facebook

did you read your link?????

the LAW is an ASS...

when we finally wake up to that fact... many more women will be dead....with no conviction... like the stolen generation..

everyone will be afraid to bring in a guilty verdict.... because it will automatically be overturned..

who the hell can say what his INTENTION was... Roll Eyes

so now they can say..

well if she hadnt hit him or spoken up or done this or done that...

she wouldnt be dead...and thrown over a bridge..

so it wasnt all his fault..

so let him out hes suffered enough...

too bad about her family.. who have no rights whatever....they can challenge nothing...

the fact he was twice as big as her doesnt come into it of course not...

I now await Cowans submission.... Angry

Of course I read it Cods........and several others.

The QLD Attorney General may well seek leave to appeal the downgraded charge in the High Court.....

if this doesn't happen, it is my view that Baden-Clay should and will receive a harsh manslaughter sentence for the reasons outlined in my link.

i was commenting on the first para in the link... it says he could be OUT very soon....thats all...

why would he get a tougher sentence than the one he already has if they are downgrading his charges...??

that wont happen alinta.that why the downgrade.

By saying "harsh manslaughter sentence ", I didn't mean to infer that it would be longer than his sentence for murder Cods.

Yes, the opening paragraph said he could be out in a matter of months........I do not think this will be the case....hence my comment that I believe the resentence will be harsh in terms of manslaughter.......

Frankly, I hope the sharpest of legal minds are scrutinising the Appeal Court decision and will find grounds to advise the AG to seek Leave to Appeal to the High Court.

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Aussie

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #87 - Dec 10^th, 2015 at 7:10pm

Finding (what some regard as) solid ground for appeal and getting Leave are two entirely different things. I doubt there will be an appeal, and there is that evidentiary gap. Yeas, Baden Clay did what he could to avoid conviction for murder, and he was (self evidently) justified in doing so. Yeas, he did not confess to the Cops.....and that is only human nature kicking in. His wife is dead, he did not intend that, and he is in trouble. Panic....survival. *Here play the usual violins*

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38868 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #88 - Dec 10^th, 2015 at 7:16pm Gawd, people do silly things. Why on Earth should some bridge be named after the deceased? Is she the only person who has been rendered dead at the hand of a criminal? Come orn! Put up your own memorials ferfuxsake!
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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000

Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #89 - Dec 10^th, 2015 at 7:26pm

cods wrote on Dec 10^th, 2015 at 5:42pm:

how can you blame POLITICs for this mess...

isnt the LAW above POLITICS?..

I laugh at our laws now.. have lost faith a long time ago...and I see no reason to change my opinion..'

fat greedy lawyers getting fatter and greedier ..

I guess the legal aid for boat people is slowing down.. so this makes a new endeavor for them to keep the ching of money going into their bank accounts..

if they said a new trial... I can reason with that... but no......straight out... believe this boy....it wasnt his fault it was hers...

I can see the headlines now... Angry

There are different types of laws e.g. Common Laws and enacted laws

Common Laws simply mean the courts take judgements from other cases as a guidance to guilty or innocence and then penalty

Enacted Law are laws drawn up by parliament (Bill), discussed (Question Time) and passed into law (Legislation).

During Question Time amendments may be added to the Bill to get enough votes to pass the Bill

This then goes to the Senate. It gets debated and other amendments may be added. If the Bill gets enough votes then it passes as Legislation. If not the government may negotiate with others to get votes needed. This is where the amendments comes in

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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