Australian Politics Forum - Baden Clay wins appeal.

Neferti

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #315 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 10:05am

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 30^th, 2015 at 10:24pm:

Neferti wrote on Dec 30^th, 2015 at 4:24pm:

Kytro wrote on Dec 30^th, 2015 at 4:03pm:

I hear you Aussie but when looking at all the circumstances involving this case and what I personally consider was the overwhelming factor in his decision to murder her, the one million dollar get out of financial ruin clause.

I am on the side of the original Jury. In any case there will always be legal argument on the finer points of the law.

But we live and die by the Jury system and I am personally convinced the Jury got it dead right in this matter.

The entire reason the appeal was successful was because the panel of judges believed there was an alternative plausible explanation, and in that circumstance there shouldn't have been a murder trail in the first place.

It does not matter if murder was "more likely" or not. It matters only that it wasn't the only viable explanation.

Murder -v- Manslaughter?

Murder seems to mean that you INTENDED to kill. Manslaughter seems to me that it was an "accident" ... although when trying to rape and strangle you COULD say to yourself " geeze, what the f**k am I doing?" and stop doing it .... but you don't. That's manslaughter?

I am not certain but I presume that, in Australia, Murder and Manslaughter can attract the same "incarceration", i.e. 25 years without Parole.

So, the people protesting GBC's "downgrade" from Murder to Manslaughter are only upset because they think he will get out of Gaol early? I thought he sentence would NOT change. IF it does, I , too will be pissed off.

There is no proof positive of HOW she died............ where do you get 'strangulation'?

Check Page 15 of this https://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf

It states that "the possible injuries could have been the result of blunt force trauma" .... and "other possible causes of death from inflicted means are smothering and strangulation".

The final "cause of death" was UNDETERMINED.

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Aussie

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #316 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 10:06am

Alinta wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 9:19am:

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 8:54am:

Alinta wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 8:21am:

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:59am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 30^th, 2015 at 10:24pm:

There is no proof positive of HOW she died............ where do you get 'strangulation'

she could have been suffocated maybe with a plastic bag..... she could have scratched him if he came up behind her......

why did he dump her and then act all the while like she had just left the house whilst he was asleep... Roll Eyes

if he could prove she died in an accident...why didnt he... dont tell me he panicked...he was solid as a rock..

sorry he had plenty of time to come clean....before they found her....

to me all the lying and denial all adds to his guilt not the other way around....

and its been 2.3 years and now they are saying he was an accident.........well well well.

Cods, do you wish to read the autopsy report?

well.. I am not sure I would understand it......all I have read is the coroner.could not find a cause of death.. does it explain anything on how she died????????.

I mean she is dead isnt she....and I dont understand how they cant tell how she died............

at the end of the day alinta... only one person knows how she died??????>..

if you think I would understand it I am up for it..lol.. I read his appeal.... and look forward to Monday to see what the DPP is saying.......I can see the holes his lawyers have punched in the case....when its all worded nicely ion their favour it looks sort of o.k.ish.......petty and I think the down grade was done in haste...

I think it will help you understand why no cause of death could be established Cods.

https://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf

Yep, I've read...and read...and read the Court of Appeal transcript......almost to the point of obsession I'll admit........it has me at the stage where if I thought for one second that access to the original trial transcript would be given, I would part with good money to obtain a copy. There has to be something in there the DPP believes the Court of Appeal has overlooked/ misinterpreted/etc.....hence its seeking Leave to Appeal to the HC.

Alinta, her fingernails were sent off for DNA testing. Did I miss the outcome of that testing in that Report?

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Neferti Gold Member Offline Posts: 7965 Canberra Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #317 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 10:09am We have already gone over (and over) this in a previous thread: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1405464642/0
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Alinta

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #318 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 10:16am

Aussie wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 10:06am:

Alinta wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 9:19am:

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 8:54am:

Alinta wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 8:21am:

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:59am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 30^th, 2015 at 10:24pm:

There is no proof positive of HOW she died............ where do you get 'strangulation'

she could have been suffocated maybe with a plastic bag..... she could have scratched him if he came up behind her......

why did he dump her and then act all the while like she had just left the house whilst he was asleep... Roll Eyes

if he could prove she died in an accident...why didnt he... dont tell me he panicked...he was solid as a rock..

sorry he had plenty of time to come clean....before they found her....

to me all the lying and denial all adds to his guilt not the other way around....

and its been 2.3 years and now they are saying he was an accident.........well well well.

Cods, do you wish to read the autopsy report?

well.. I am not sure I would understand it......all I have read is the coroner.could not find a cause of death.. does it explain anything on how she died????????.

I mean she is dead isnt she....and I dont understand how they cant tell how she died............

at the end of the day alinta... only one person knows how she died??????>..

if you think I would understand it I am up for it..lol.. I read his appeal.... and look forward to Monday to see what the DPP is saying.......I can see the holes his lawyers have punched in the case....when its all worded nicely ion their favour it looks sort of o.k.ish.......petty and I think the down grade was done in haste...

I think it will help you understand why no cause of death could be established Cods.

https://aussiecriminals.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/autopsy-report1.pdf

Yep, I've read...and read...and read the Court of Appeal transcript......almost to the point of obsession I'll admit........it has me at the stage where if I thought for one second that access to the original trial transcript would be given, I would part with good money to obtain a copy. There has to be something in there the DPP believes the Court of Appeal has overlooked/ misinterpreted/etc.....hence its seeking Leave to Appeal to the HC.

Alinta, her fingernails were sent off for DNA testing. Did I miss the outcome of that testing in that Report?

I've only posted the link but not read the autopsy report again this morning. I'll go have a look if the answer to your question is there. I know I have read (perhaps in another report?) that DNA of another person was found under (at least) one fingernail, but insufficient to enable further analysis/investigation.

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Neferti Gold Member Offline Posts: 7965 Canberra Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #319 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 10:23am bump
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Neferti

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #320 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 10:24am

In the previous thread I posted a link to (above), Alinta said (Reply #82):

Quote:

This is the best I can find re the DNA fingernail analysis...........

"The complete DNA profile obtained from the sample matched the reference DNA profile of Allison Baden-Clay," forensic scientist Amanda Reeves said.
Ms Reeves said that when she examined swabs from the dead woman's fingernails she found Allison's DNA and very low levels of possible DNA from a second contributor.
"However these were below the recordable threshold of the laboratory," she said.
"I didn't believe that they were suitable for comparison."

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Alinta

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #321 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 10:51am

Neferti wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 10:24am:

In the previous thread I posted a link to (above), Alinta said (Reply #82):

Quote:

This is the best I can find re the DNA fingernail analysis...........

"The complete DNA profile obtained from the sample matched the reference DNA profile of Allison Baden-Clay," forensic scientist Amanda Reeves said.
Ms Reeves said that when she examined swabs from the dead woman's fingernails she found Allison's DNA and very low levels of possible DNA from a second contributor.
"However these were below the recordable threshold of the laboratory," she said.
"I didn't believe that they were suitable for comparison."

Neferti....thanks for jogging my memory!!! Now recall reading this at the time Amanda Reeves gave evidence at trial........I attempted, without success, to locate her official report document.

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Neferti

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #322 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:08am

Alinta wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 10:51am:

Neferti wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 10:24am:

In the previous thread I posted a link to (above), Alinta said (Reply #82):

Quote:

This is the best I can find re the DNA fingernail analysis...........

"The complete DNA profile obtained from the sample matched the reference DNA profile of Allison Baden-Clay," forensic scientist Amanda Reeves said.
Ms Reeves said that when she examined swabs from the dead woman's fingernails she found Allison's DNA and very low levels of possible DNA from a second contributor.
"However these were below the recordable threshold of the laboratory," she said.
"I didn't believe that they were suitable for comparison."

Neferti....thanks for jogging my memory!!! Now recall reading this at the time Amanda Reeves gave evidence at trial........I attempted, without success, to locate her official report document.

I couldn't find anything either about the DNA except what you posted.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38869 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #323 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:16am Neferti wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 10:09am: We have already gone over (and over) this in a previous thread: http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1405464642/0 Funny how some contributors in that Thread predicted the Appeal outcome almost to a tee, Kytro particularly.
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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #324 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:27am

Kytro wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 9:17am:

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:59am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 30^th, 2015 at 10:24pm:

There is no proof positive of HOW she died............ where do you get 'strangulation'

she could have been suffocated maybe with a plastic bag..... she could have scratched him if he came up behind her......

why did he dump her and then act all the while like she had just left the house whilst he was asleep... Roll Eyes

if he could prove she died in an accident...why didnt he... dont tell me he panicked...he was solid as a rock..

sorry he had plenty of time to come clean....before they found her....

to me all the lying and denial all adds to his guilt not the other way around....

and its been 2.3 years and now they are saying he was an accident.........well well well.

None of which discounts the possibility it was accidental. and that's the key point. That's why the initial appeal was successful. Murder may be a better explanation, but that's not the point. the point is there is another explanation.

well suggesting he put a plastic bag over her head..

is hardly accidental..... in my book anyway...

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Neferti

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #325 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:28am

Aussie wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:16am:

Neferti wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 10:09am:

We have already gone over (and over) this in a previous thread:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1405464642/0

Funny how some contributors in that Thread predicted the Appeal outcome almost to a tee, Kytro particularly.

It was always on the cards. I doubt anything will come of the latest "appeal", I think the DPP are just trying to appease the public who absolutely loath Baden Clay.

With luck, his "life with 15 years before parole" will remain. He is still a murderer.

There was a lot of stuff the the Jury didn't hear. http://aussiecriminals.com.au/2014/07/15/gerard-baden-clay-what-jury-didnt-hear/

Here is a link to the Appeal, with extra information.

http://aussiecriminals.com.au/2015/05/27/gerard-baden-clay-appeal-7th-august-20

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #326 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:32am

Neferti wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:28am:

Aussie wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:16am:

Neferti wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 10:09am:

We have already gone over (and over) this in a previous thread:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1405464642/0

Funny how some contributors in that Thread predicted the Appeal outcome almost to a tee, Kytro particularly.

It was always on the cards. I doubt anything will come of the latest "appeal", I think the DPP are just trying to appease the public who absolutely loath Baden Clay.

With luck, his "life with 15 years before parole" will remain. He is still a murderer.

There was a lot of stuff the the Jury didn't hear. http://aussiecriminals.com.au/2014/07/15/gerard-baden-clay-what-jury-didnt-hear/

Here is a link to the Appeal, with extra information.

http://aussiecriminals.com.au/2015/05/27/gerard-baden-clay-appeal-7th-august-20

I am sorry to hear you say that nef... as coming out with a manslaughter instead of murder tag will make a HUGE difference to someone of this character...

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #327 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:40am

one of the things that bothers me most.... is that the murderer is listened to.. he/she has so many rights of recourse...they have lawyers on demand at their beck and call...and can insist on an appeal...no matter what...

yet the families of the victim.. are at the mercy of the DPP..they are literally silenced by the system...all they can do is sit and wait for the person who took the life from their loved ones is released...many many months ahead opf any sentence he/she may have been given....

they are basically shadows...

all I know is I would never like to be a victim before our courts....our system fights for the criminals...

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #328 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:43am

Aussie wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:16am:

Neferti wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 10:09am:

We have already gone over (and over) this in a previous thread:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1405464642/0

Funny how some contributors in that Thread predicted the Appeal outcome almost to a tee, Kytro particularly.

only a 50 50 chance of being correct...

Cheesy

..

the way the law is written in QLD>..

I am amazed they didnt go for .provocation

whos to say he wasnt?..

she sounds a real bitch. Roll Eyes

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Neferti

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #329 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:44am

cods wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 11:32am:

I am sorry to hear you say that nef... as coming out with a manslaughter instead of murder tag will make a HUGE difference to someone of this character...

I have been reading a lot about this and I can see why they reduced it to manslaughter. It doesn't make him any less a MURDERER and I hope he still gets Life with 15 years before he can apply for Parole. He'll be 60 in 15 years and will have missed out on all those females that he chases. He is a RAKE i.e. Quote:

a man, especially one who is rich or with a high social position, who lives in an immoral way, especially having sex with a lot of women

He won't get much of that in Wolston. Grin

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