Australian Politics Forum - Baden Clay wins appeal.

cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #450 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 4:26pm

Alinta wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 12:13pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 11:58am:

Alinta wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 11:54am:

Aussie wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 11:25am:

Alinta wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 10:05am:

I read the book before I knew anything about the trial Aussie.......at the time Allison disappeared, in Melbourne we actually didn't hear much at all about it. Saw the book on the store shelves.....thought....this might be interesting ...and bought it.

For me, it was definitely an insightful read into the family dynamics prior to turning my mind to the trial evidence and outcome, subsequent appeal, etc......

I recommend it!!!!

Did you mean to address that to me or cods? (I've not mentioned the book, and I doubt I'll read it, preferring documents which are relevant like those in the links you have posted.)

To you.......only because as you'd not mentioned the book, I assumed you had not read it and perhaps would be interested in doing so.

Anything in it which goes to back up what Mr Baron is hypothesising - sociopathy?

I certainly don't find anything in it that (to me) would negate the possibility....however, I'm not schooled in the areas of psychopathy and sociopathy and at what point certain character traits/ actions are clinically diagnosed as such.

he was charming....also up himself....spoilt....liked his own way....

I guess it sums a lot of people up though.. Roll Eyes

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #451 - Jan 4^th, 2016 at 7:35am

Aussie wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 2:51pm:

mitasol wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 2:49pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 11:59am:

mitasol wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 11:54am:

How bizarre - I can't see anything after 10.31 am in this thread - I can see the posts listed on the summary page but 10.31 is the latest I can see, page 29.

Edit: and all of a sudden it works - tried 3 different browsers

The entire Forum has a page turning problem. It is a bug freediver has not been able to nuke.

Ahhh, that's reassuring. I thought I was being censored

That comes later.

only if you go into "relationships" mitasol...

no one else...keeps tabs on everyone.....I think most mods have better things to do.....

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Saul Goodman

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #452 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 12:23pm

Queensland’s top prosecutor has claimed the court that downgraded Gerard Baden-Clay’s murder conviction to manslaughter made errors in its decision, as he prepares to take the case to the high court.

Director of public prosecutions Michael Byrne on Monday filed an application to have Queensland appeal the court ruling that Baden-Clay’s conviction be downgraded to manslaughter and have it either dismissed or reheard.

Byrne has reportedly argued that the appeal court, which last month found it was as plausible that the former real estate agent accidentally killed his wife Allison as murdered her, erred by substituting its own views on the evidence for the jury’s.

This included a “factual assertion not established by the evidence”, the Courier-Mail reported.

The appeal court raised the possibility that a physical confrontation between the couple at their Brookfield home in 2012 led to Baden-Clay delivering a fatal blow “without intending to cause serious harm” before dumping his wife’s body in a panic.

The appeal court bench, which included recently appointed chief justice Catherine Holmes, cited the example of “the effects of a fall hitting her head against a hard surface”.

The ruling was met by widespread public criticism, including a demonstration by thousands of people in Brisbane’s CBD last month.

Byrne in his application argued that the appeal court was mistaken in its application of principles “concerning circumstantial evidence and in substituting its own views of the evidence, including a factual assertion not established by the evidence, for the jury verdict which was reasonably open on the whole of the evidence”, the Courier-Mail reported.

Byrne argued that the appeal court erred by concluding that evidence of Baden-Clay’s dumping his wife’s body was “neutral” on the issue of whether he intended to kills his wife or not.

The court was mistaken in its finding that the jury “could not properly have been satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the element of intent to kill or do grievous bodily harm had been proved”, he argued.

Queensland attorney-general Yvette D’Ath told reporters on Monday that Byrne had independently reached the rare decision to challenge the appeal court in the high court after “considerable thought”.

D’Ath dismissed suggestions that public pressure played any role in the decision.

Byrne has 28 days to spell out the full grounds for the high court appeal, to which Baden Clay will have until mid-February to respond.

The high court will then decide whether to grant Byrne leave to appeal before the full bench.

Source: The Guardian

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #453 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 3:08pm

Aussie wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 11:25am:

Alinta wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 10:05am:

I read the book before I knew anything about the trial Aussie.......at the time Allison disappeared, in Melbourne we actually didn't hear much at all about it. Saw the book on the store shelves.....thought....this might be interesting ...and bought it.

For me, it was definitely an insightful read into the family dynamics prior to turning my mind to the trial evidence and outcome, subsequent appeal, etc......

I recommend it!!!!

Did you mean to address that to me or cods? (I've not mentioned the book, and I doubt I'll read it, preferring documents which are relevant like those in the links you have posted.)

Hmm - I read a similar book on Martin Bryant, written by a journo - contained one hell of a lot of pub knowledge, none verified, and a heap of inaccuracies and even nonsense - all designed to make Bryant the Charles Manson of Tasmania.

When I read that kind of thing my suspicion bone starts to ache...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #454 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 3:10pm

mitasol wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 2:49pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 11:59am:

mitasol wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 11:54am:

How bizarre - I can't see anything after 10.31 am in this thread - I can see the posts listed on the summary page but 10.31 is the latest I can see, page 29.

Edit: and all of a sudden it works - tried 3 different browsers

The entire Forum has a page turning problem. It is a bug freediver has not been able to nuke.

Ahhh, that's reassuring. I thought I was being censored

I blame the feminists and their running dogs exclusively for the entire gamut of page turning problems.....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Neferti Gold Member Offline Posts: 7965 Canberra Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #455 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 3:33pm The page turning irritation is easily remedied. Just hit "reply" a few times and add something, whether an exclamation mark, a dot, or whatever. It's a glitch in the YaBB program once a thread gets past a certain number of pages.
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Saul Goodman Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 132 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #456 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 3:42pm .
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Saul Goodman Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 132 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #457 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 3:42pm .
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Saul Goodman Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 132 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #458 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 3:43pm . damn this page flip is a pain
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Saul Goodman Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 132 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #459 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 3:44pm . I give up.
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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #460 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 3:57pm

hummmmmmm this will be interesting wont it.....

appeal court against appeal court....

oops now wait for the top shots on here in the legal dept...to correct that....

anyway one or two people on here understand that without a long explanation...thank god..

I am glad the DPP sees it like I did...

of course his actions after have to be taken into account...

lets just have a judgement on what happened on day of the death.. forget about what came after... Huh

Quote:

Byrne argued that the appeal court erred by concluding that evidence of Baden-Clay’s dumping his wife’s body was “neutral” on the issue of whether he intended to kills his wife or no

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Neferti Gold Member Offline Posts: 7965 Canberra Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #461 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 4:35pm Saul Goodman wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 3:43pm: . damn this page flip is a pain What did you say that you wanted to see IMMEDIATELY in print?
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Aussie

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #462 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 4:41pm

cods wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 3:57pm:

hummmmmmm this will be interesting wont it.....

appeal court against appeal court....

oops now wait for the top shots on here in the legal dept...to correct that....

anyway one or two people on here understand that without a long explanation...thank god..

I am glad the DPP sees it like I did...

of course his actions after have to be taken into account...

lets just have a judgement on what happened on day of the death.. forget about what came after... Huh

Quote:

Byrne argued that the appeal court erred by concluding that evidence of Baden-Clay’s dumping his wife’s body was “neutral” on the issue of whether he intended to kills his wife or no

cods.....you go away from your home for a couple of weeks, leaving your two teenage kids there. They are old enough to boil water and heat bread. You get back, and you notice one of your ornamental pieces is missing. You ask what happened, and they each deny they know anything about it, even though one has a small cut on his hand. He reckons he got that mucking around with a pocket knife. Later you find out that the bloke with the cut had been looking around shops for exactly the same thing with no luck. You even find bits of the ornament at the bottom of the rubbish bin.

Does any or all of that mean the little bastard intended to destroy it?

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Neferti

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #463 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 4:45pm

cods wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 3:57pm:

hummmmmmm this will be interesting wont it.....

appeal court against appeal court....

oops now wait for the top shots on here in the legal dept...to correct that....

anyway one or two people on here understand that without a long explanation...thank god..

I am glad the DPP sees it like I did...

of course his actions after have to be taken into account...

lets just have a judgement on what happened on day of the death.. forget about what came after... Huh

Quote:

Byrne argued that the appeal court erred by concluding that evidence of Baden-Clay’s dumping his wife’s body was “neutral” on the issue of whether he intended to kills his wife or no

Did someone post what the DPP stated as his reason for applying to the High Court?

Just in case ...

Quote:

QUEENSLAND’S top prosecutor claims the Court of Appeal was wrong to substitute its own views of the evidence for the jury’s verdict to convict Gerard Baden-Clay of murder over the death of his wife.

A special leave application, filed to the High Court by the Director of Public Prosecutions this afternoon, outlines two key grounds in a bid to overturn the Court of Appeal decision last month to downgrade Baden-Clay’s conviction to manslaughter.

According to the application, obtained by The Courier-Mail, the grounds include that the Court of Appeal made errors in:

- The application of principles concerning circumstantial evidence and in substituting its own views of the evidence, including a factual assertion not established by the evidence, for the jury verdict which was reasonably open on the whole of the evidence.

- Concluding that the post-offence conduct evidence remained neutral on the issue of intent and that the jury could not properly have been satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the element of intent to kill or do grievous bodily harm had been proved.

Director of Public Prosecutions Michael Byrne QC has asked that the High Court set aside the decision to downgrade Baden-Clay’s charge and dismiss the appeal.

In the alternative, he has asked that the appeal be reheard.

In 2014, a jury found Baden-Clay guilty of murdering his wife Allison more than two years earlier.

The decision last month to overturn that verdict and substitute it with a conviction of manslaughter sparked widespread protests and calls for it to be appealed to the High Court.

State Attorney-General Yvette D’Ath said the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) Michael Byrne QC formally applied for special leave to appeal Baden-Clay’s acquittal in the High Court. “It is important that this matter now is able to progress unhindered,” she said.

“Consequently I will not be commenting on the matter as it goes forward, but I am pleased that application has been lodged today.” Ms D’Ath brushed off the suggestion the government had bowed to overwhelming public pressure to appeal Baden-Clay’s acquittal, which included a huge public rally in Brisbane last month.

The decision to appeal was entirely up to the state’s top prosecutor, not the state government, she said.

“The director of public prosecutions has given this considerable thought in looking at the decision and in determining there are legal grounds to progress an application for special leave to appeal, and that is the basis on which he is going forward,” she said.

The DPP has 28 days to submit his outline of argument and Baden-Clay will then have a further 21 days to respond.

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Neferti

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #464 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 4:50pm

Aussie wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 4:41pm:

cods.....you go away from your home for a couple of weeks, leaving your two teenage kids there. They are old enough to boil water and heat bread. You get back, and you notice one of your ornamental pieces is missing. You ask what happened, and they each deny they know anything about it, even though one has a small cut on his hand. He reckons he got that mucking around with a pocket knife. Later you find out that the bloke with the cut had been looking around shops for exactly the same thing with no luck. You even find bits of the ornament at the bottom of the rubbish bin.

Does any or all of that mean the little bastard intended to destroy it?

Are you for real, arsie? Comparing a missing "ornamental piece" to a MURDERED WIFE?

Good luck with getting out of that. Now you have really hit the bottom of the barrel. UNBELIEVABLE!

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