Australian Politics Forum - Baden Clay wins appeal.

Aussie

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #495 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 6:40pm

red baron wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 6:35pm:

What we have here from Aussie, is as Strother Martin said in the movie Cool Hand Luke, to Paul Newman (Luke)..."What we have here is a failure to communicate....."

What we have is a scenario exactly like the state of the evidence in the Baden-Clay case.....with the simple and relevant question...........do the facts set out in that scenario prove beyond reasonable doubt that the kid with the cut in his hand, the kid who said he knew nothing, the kid who was known to have shopped for a replacement, and the remnants of the broken ornament were found in the rubbish bin...I'll add......his fingerprints were all over the remnants ~ intended to destroy it?

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #496 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 7:27pm

Alinta wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 6:35pm:

I don't read it as an attempt to make light of Allison's death. Even though it's in the Baden-Clay thread, try to put that aside and just read the scenario putting yourself in the place of the teenagers' mum...........and assess it on the basis of the "evidence" supplied.

why should we?????...

just to make numpty feel better.. you have got to be kidding..

let him start another thread and see what response he gets...

he has already shown us what he thinks about women in general on the domestic violence threads....

he is deranged.. and will do anythign and say anything to get his own way...I am sorry to see you think it is ok......

but at least we know where you stand...now..

first of all he claims he only believes what he READS..

then!!!!he hasnt read the Book because it would sully what he claims is the TRUTH..

then bugger me he comes along with a HYPOTHETICAL that bares no relationship to a murder..... and the subsequent disposal of a body...

I am sure that happens in court all the time.... Angry

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Alinta

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #497 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 8:02pm

cods wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

Alinta wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 6:35pm:

I don't read it as an attempt to make light of Allison's death. Even though it's in the Baden-Clay thread, try to put that aside and just read the scenario putting yourself in the place of the teenagers' mum...........and assess it on the basis of the "evidence" supplied.

why should we?????...

just to make numpty feel better.. you have got to be kidding..

let him start another thread and see what response he gets...

he has already shown us what he thinks about women in general on the domestic violence threads....

he is deranged.. and will do anythign and say anything to get his own way...I am sorry to see you think it is ok......

but at least we know where you stand...now..

first of all he claims he only believes what he READS..

then!!!!he hasnt read the Book because it would sully what he claims is the TRUTH..

then bugger me he comes along with a HYPOTHETICAL that bares no relationship to a murder..... and the subsequent disposal of a body...

I am sure that happens in court all the time.... Angry

Where I stand on it is this Cods......

Hypotheticals/ scenarios are an excellent teaching tool......in this case to encourage posters to turn their minds to the "evidence" presented
and assess it in the light of proof, or not proof, of intent.

It matters not to me who introduced the scenario........and who chooses to participate (or not) is none of my business.......no should or shouldn't about it.........

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Alinta Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1470 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #498 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 8:02pm up
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Alinta Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1470 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #499 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 8:03pm up
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Alinta Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1470 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #500 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 8:03pm UP!!!!
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #501 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 8:08pm

Reads like Aussie is just trying to get a hypothetical across to make a point - the point being that even though 'circumstantial evidence' may suggest that Baden Clay could be the only one to kill his wife..... it itself that is not sufficient to prove intent.

His hypothetical of the the kid and the vase was valid.... all the evidence may well show the kid smashed the vase - but did he INTEND to.

Gotta love some of the answers:-

"Where did I get a teenage kid?"... Grin

.. kind puts me in mind of the drunk sheila on the bus one night, we're in her street, and she starts whining, "Where are we?" (in your street, which number?)..."But where are we?".. on and on.....

Now that is a deep mind at work right there..... and what we have here is a failure to communicate.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Aussie

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #502 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 8:27pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 8:08pm:

Reads like Aussie is just trying to get a hypothetical across to make a point - the point being that even though 'circumstantial evidence' may suggest that Baden Clay could be the only one to kill his wife..... it itself that is not sufficient to prove intent.

His hypothetical of the the kid and the vase was valid.... all the evidence may well show the kid smashed the vase - but did he INTEND to.

Gotta love some of the answers:-

"Where did I get a teenage kid?"... Grin

.. kind puts me in mind of the drunk sheila on the bus one night, we're in her street, and she starts whining, "Where are we?" (in your street, which number?)..."But where are we?".. on and on.....

Now that is a deep mind at work right there..... and what we have here is a failure to communicate.

Not on my part. I presented a relevant and simple scenario, and cods et al (perhaps realising exactly how relevant it was) ran for the cover of blatant abuse (which I have reported) or feigned ignorance/obfuscation, and could not bring themselves to answer a very obvious question.

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The Heartless Felon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2869 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #503 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 4:07am Aussie, try offering your scenario to a brick wall; you'd probably get a more intelligent response...
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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #504 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 5:51am

Aussie wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 8:27pm:

Not on my part. I presented a relevant and simple scenario, and cods et al (perhaps realising exactly how relevant it was) ran for the cover of blatant abuse (which I have reported) or feigned ignorance/obfuscation, and could not bring themselves to answer a very obvious question

alinta.....I do hope you have read this post..

BLATANT ABUSE....... Roll Eyes

this is what I HAVE TO PUT UP WITH

and then I get it for not answering him........

even grap gets on the train.. Angry

out of the blue......no reason just to take a pot shot at cods...

now I am being accused and REPORTED for abuse.

have you noticed he doesnt say WHAT THE ABUSE WAS....no lets leave that to his imagination....

along with his HYPOTHETICAL....

I am fed up with this guy turning every thread I get involved in....into a lets make cods look like a the ignorant bitch I think she is......

FERFUXSAKES NUMPTY...I dont care what you think...I have nothing to say to you....

and I think that is my right...

leave me alone or I will report you for stalking...and your lies....go away I dont think I can be any plainer than that....

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Setanta

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #505 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 6:04am

cods wrote on Jan 6^th, 2016 at 5:51am:

Aussie wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 8:27pm:

Not on my part. I presented a relevant and simple scenario, and cods et al (perhaps realising exactly how relevant it was) ran for the cover of blatant abuse (which I have reported) or feigned ignorance/obfuscation, and could not bring themselves to answer a very obvious question

alinta.....I do hope you have read this post..

BLATANT ABUSE....... Roll Eyes

this is what I HAVE TO PUT UP WITH

and then I get it for not answering him........

even grap gets on the train.. Angry

out of the blue......no reason just to take a pot shot at cods...

now I am being accused and REPORTED for abuse.

have you noticed he doesnt say WHAT THE ABUSE WAS....no lets leave that to his imagination....

along with his HYPOTHETICAL....

I am fed up with this guy turning every thread I get involved in....into a lets make cods look like a the ignorant bitch I think she is......

FERFUXSAKES NUMPTY...I dont care what you think...I have nothing to say to you....

and I think that is my right...

leave me alone or I will report you for stalking...and your lies....go away I dont think I can be any plainer than that....

Cods, you got involved in a thread that Aussie started, surely he can post in his own thread, or do you mean once you start posting, he must stop? The hypothetical is valid as a way to demonstrate the meaning of "intent".

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #506 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 6:14am

Alinta wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 8:02pm:

cods wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 7:27pm:

Alinta wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 6:35pm:

I don't read it as an attempt to make light of Allison's death. Even though it's in the Baden-Clay thread, try to put that aside and just read the scenario putting yourself in the place of the teenagers' mum...........and assess it on the basis of the "evidence" supplied.

why should we?????...

just to make numpty feel better.. you have got to be kidding..

let him start another thread and see what response he gets...

he has already shown us what he thinks about women in general on the domestic violence threads....

he is deranged.. and will do anythign and say anything to get his own way...I am sorry to see you think it is ok......

but at least we know where you stand...now..

first of all he claims he only believes what he READS..

then!!!!he hasnt read the Book because it would sully what he claims is the TRUTH..

then bugger me he comes along with a HYPOTHETICAL that bares no relationship to a murder..... and the subsequent disposal of a body...

I am sure that happens in court all the time.... Angry

Where I stand on it is this Cods......

Hypotheticals/ scenarios are an excellent teaching tool......in this case to encourage posters to turn their minds to the "evidence" presented
and assess it in the light of proof, or not proof, of intent.

It matters not to me who introduced the scenario........and who chooses to participate (or not) is none of my business.......no should or shouldn't about it.........

mate.... if you think there is a comparison between his HYPO.. and the real case..

then I feel sorry for you....the fact is this person used ME in his pathetic hypo.. why not himself....why not numpty goes away for two weeks.. leaving two teenagers who cant feed themselves.. Roll Eyes

no because that wouldnt be putting cods down..

and he enjoys doing that...like a child...

its what he does.......if you look through this thread alone I have done my best to ignore this person...I dont want to play his pathetic games.....

I Know WHAT evidence MEANS.... I KNOW WHAT BEYOND A SHADOW OF DOUBT >>>MEANS.......

dont you get it... we all have our own opinion on that..

3 judges have thrown out.

what 12 men on a jury decided their verdict was based on what they saw as BEYOND A SHADOW OF DOUBT...it was murder.....

why did he lie and lie and lie.. and clean up clean up clean up...if he didnt have anything to be guilty of????

if he is so innocent....why pretend he had a shaving accident...all he had to do was claim she struck him first...and he was defending himself....

because he strangled her....its a bit hard to do that by accident.

hows that for a HYPOTHETICAL

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #507 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 8:10am Lots of HYPOCRITICAL (NOT HYPOTHETICAL) stuff going on in here.
Back to top	If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free. HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415) IP Logged

cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #508 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 8:40am

Setanta wrote on Jan 6^th, 2016 at 6:04am:

Cods, you got involved in a thread that Aussie started, surely he can post in his own thread, or do you mean once you start posting, he must stop? The hypothetical is valid as a way to demonstrate the meaning of "intent".

he started the thread if you read the title... because its how He THINKS...the man didnt mean to kill her her hide her or pretend she run off...he didnt mean any of that....

mean being intend..

of course we know who knows what he intended dont we?????...

ok so then along come the DPP..

who happens to disagree with the court of appeals
take on said evidence... it separates the actual death... from the actual events after the death...

we! those of us who dispute the marking down of the charges.....claim that you cannot pretend what he did after the death had nothing to do with anything.... Roll Eyes

what and why he did what he did... most certainly tells me....this was no accident...

now the way I see it.. I have as much right to my opinion as anyone else......

just like you do....you work out the hypothetical by all means...please do whatever/validate it I dont care....

and if anyone thinks I HAVE TO DO THE SAME>... then I am sorry to disappoint you...

but you are going to have to suck it up.... because it wont happen.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #509 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 9:04am

I think some grapple here with the very vast difference between what is thought and what is proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Many a man has lost his life that way.....

I overhears some guys in a club discussing this case - they were adamant that he'd admitted to killing her... according to every report I've read, he has consistently said he did not, yet the idea has permeated into the public mind that he must be a killer and therefore must have admitted it, and so must be guilty.

There's a world of difference between phrasing an appeal on the basis of:-

"even IF he did the deed (which the defendant strenuously denies and continues to deny), is there any proof positive that he INTENDED to do the deed?"

.. and an appeal that says:-

"Yeah - the defendant dun it - but it was an accident.. an unforeseen event.... and it went further than he intended"...

Many would find it easy to reject the second...... the first is more difficult, especially considering that the evidence is purely circumstantial - meaning that the jury felt that since he was the most likely suspect - he had to be the ONLY suspect.

Again - many a man has lost his life that way.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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