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Baden Clay wins appeal. (Read 99968 times)
cods
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #600 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 4:18pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 2:55pm:
cods wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 2:29pm:
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 1:02pm:
Point about all that,. Red, is the 'silent as a tomb' part of it... he never admitted it and all the evidence is/was circumstantial... nothing ever directly linked him to her death...

So - in reality - the whole case has been supposition and 'he may have done this' or 'he may have done that' etc.... a PERFECT example of The Deep North......

It's amazing how an assumption gets into the popular mind about how a person is guilty on accusation based on assumption, supposition, prejudice, and emotion.  The Thin Black Line of Law is thin enough already - be more than careful about weakening it further lest you open the door to a rule of the mob or of a self-appointed ruling group.

What if he is innocent?




dont worry grap....if the supreme beings in Qld do what most of us expect them to do... not allow the appeal of the appeal.....then the next step he will want the manslaughter thrown out...


dont you think he acted strange for a man who is innocent though...???? he didnt look for her didnt show any interest in the search....I dont even recall him looking upset... letalone look for her....

he told lies about the night she wasnt there... said he went to bed at 10pm and slept which he didnt do... that is proved...why would you do that if you were innocent??????.....

dont expect him to ever admit anything...he has no conscience....and thats what you need if you own your mistakes..


Go back to that pretend scenario I presented you with concerning the ornament.  The teenage was not interested in looking for it.  He too did not look upset.  But he did have a cut in his hand.  He too told lies that he did not cause the ornament to break...his fingerprints were on the fragments found in the rubbish bin.  Does any or all of that prove beyond reasonable doubt that the ornament is in pieces because he meant to destroy it?





oh which one would you care to nominate..

reply 462..

cods.....you go away from your home for a couple of weeks, leaving your two teenage kids there.  They are old enough to boil water and heat bread.  You get back, and you notice one of your ornamental pieces is missing.  You ask what happened, and they each deny they know anything about it, even though one has a small cut on his hand.  He reckons he got that mucking around with a pocket knife.  Later you find out that the bloke with the cut had been looking around shops for exactly the same thing with no luck.  You even find bits of the ornament at the bottom of the rubbish bin.

Does any or all of that mean the little bastard intended to destroy it?

or this one..
reply 554..

Best answer to that is to point you to my scenario.  Where  there is proof beyond reasonable doubt that the teenager with the cut in his hand intended to destroy the ornament.  He too lied...he too tried to cover up.....he denied all knowledge and involvement......[highlight]he too 'rang the insurance company'.....his prints were all over the fragments found in the bin
--------------
well you think your on a winner like changing FDs rules to fit in with what you think caused monk to be banned.. I get that.. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes..

its ok to change the rules if YOU say so.. Cheesy Cheesy

ok well first of all this bears no resemblance to the murder..there is a witness to what happened... in your vase case,,

two boys both deny anything to do with said vase...one of the boys has a cut and his prints are on pieces in the bin...both boys LIE..

does the fact that his finger prints are on the vase..make him guilty???....does the fact he went looking for a replacement... make him guilty???..

all circumstantial.as far as I can see... you see I happened to be walking past their window that morning.. cods asked me to keep an eye on them...as I looked in one of the boys was yelling at the other and a vase flew past the window and smashed against the wall...now you have done it.. said 1st  boy now pick it all up....no said the 2nd boy you made me angry and I threw it....so the 1st boy picked it all up as he knew mum would be angry...as he did he cut his hand.. bugger.. into the bin...he then went looking for another vase as he knew his mum liked this one very much....but was unlucky..... yes he lied to his mum he didnt want to DOB his younger brother in...

the guilty boy is the 2nd one... he meant to throw it knowing full well it would break......the 2nd boy intended breaking said vase...beyond a shadow of doubt...

..... now had there only been one boy...

but there wasnt was there??????....

and no he didnt ring the insurance company what teenager knows about insurance... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes...

I am sorry that you think this is important...and makes you look like you are superior to everyone else... I will give you gweggy... hes not hard to beat...as you have brought up time and time again....

I am sure you already have your answer pat... which no one is interested in...

go play...Cludo....I am sure you are a setset winner on that..

or maybe start a new vendetta against andrei..whom you swear has it in for dear monk....

unless of course you start a thread to get the RULES YOU DONT APPROVE OF CHANGED.. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

its just a thought.


this thread is very much about the murder of a

mother of 3 very young girls...
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cods
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #601 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 4:19pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 3:29pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 3:17pm:
In all honesty, you're wasting your time Aussie.

http://thumb1.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/620377/620377,1313117075,4/...

Red Baron and cods will just never get it.



Surely, if I keep trying often enough, they will see what really is a very simple point?



I am almost sure if you keep whingeing enough andrei will make changes to the rules.. just for YOU..
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cods
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #602 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 4:20pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 3:31pm:
Aussie wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 3:29pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 3:17pm:
In all honesty, you're wasting your time Aussie.

http://thumb1.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/620377/620377,1313117075,4/...

Red Baron and cods will just never get it.



Surely, if I keep trying often enough, they will see what really is a very simple point?



Your optimism is admirable.


my goodness when will you be having your first meeting of the girls admiration club???... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #603 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 4:21pm
 
cods wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 4:18pm:
this thread is very much about the murder of a

mother of 3 very young girls...


Manslaughter.

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Alinta
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #604 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 4:35pm
 
mitasol wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 8:51am:
One of Australia’s leading and highest paid criminal barristers, Robert Richter QC, has declared that it is unlikely Gerard Baden-Clay’s downgraded manslaughter conviction will be overturned, labelling the key argument in the appeal against him as ­“absurd” and unable to stand up to analysis.
The DPP had sought the delay, arguing that his murderous intent was proved when he tried to cover up the killing of his wife and then claim no involvement.
But Mr Richter, who commands fees of more than $10,000 a day to represent clients, said the appeal was doomed to fail, and while there was popular support for it, the public was not equipped to make legal judgments amid an atmosphere of “hysteria”.

[i]“It’s an absurd argument ­because while hiding things may show a consciousness of guilt it doesn't show what it’s a consciousness of guilt of.

In other words: it could be a consciousness of guilt of ­manslaughter or a murder or something generally shameful”[/i]
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/legal-affairs/absurd-gerard-badenclay-a...

Lets have rule by law, not by hysterical mobs


Cods, the highlighted part is the key to understanding it.......



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Alinta
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #605 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 4:35pm
 
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cods
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #606 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 4:52pm
 
Alinta wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 4:35pm:
wrote Today at 8:51am:
One of Australia’s leading and highest paid criminal barristers, Robert Richter QC, has declared that it is unlikely Gerard Baden-Clay’s downgraded manslaughter conviction will be overturned, labelling the key argument in the appeal against him as ­“absurd” and unable to stand up to analysis.
The DPP had sought the delay, arguing that his murderous intent was proved when he tried to cover up the killing of his wife and then claim no involvement.
But Mr Richter, who commands fees of more than $10,000 a day to represent clients, said the appeal was doomed to fail, and while there was popular support for it, the public was not equipped to make legal judgments amid an atmosphere of “hysteria”.

“It’s an absurd argument ­because while hiding things may show a consciousness of guilt it doesn't show what it’s a consciousness of guilt of.

In other words: it could be a consciousness of guilt of ­manslaughter or a murder or something generally shameful”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/legal-affairs/absurd-gerard-badenclay-a...

Lets have rule by law, not by hysterical mobs


Cods, the highlighted part is the key to understanding it.



alinta .. can anyone really and truly put their childrens lives on it..

know what was in someones mind as they took a life....

I dont care what you say or what the freaking law says....to prove what someones intention was is nye on impossible...they are erring on the better side when it comes to being sued....simple as that...

we see changes to the LAWS all the time.. unless you live in Qld.. where they are hundreds of years old...

but for the rest of us...we live in the now... and they CHANGE and UPDATE them all the time....

we are sick to death of well heeled lawyers twisting and turning things.. leaving bits out that might make their client look bad..

doing deals to get the charges lowered or even left out all together...

we are sick of it.....

12 good men and true..said  he was proved guilty   beyond a reasonable doubt........and so do a lot of other people....

3 blokes say he wasnt......

and we have to sit back and accept it......really...

can you tell me whats the point of having a jury...in the first place.. when their verdict can be throw out by 3 men..??????

if you can show me the criminal  psychologist who can read minds in hindsight...

and tell us exactly what was going through Gerards mind...as he did the deed....you may have a case as it is.,...????????

its a bet each way....and I am on the jurys side..all 12 of them
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #607 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 5:09pm
 
Quote:
I dont care what you say or what the freaking law says


I reckon that is very clear. I am a supporter of the Jury system, but you are the best illustration I have come across which indicates it ought be changed significantly.  People who have no respect for the Law have no place in a Jury.

Quote:
doing deals to get the charges lowered or even left out all together...


No deals were done in the Baden-Clay case.

Quote:
can you tell me whats the point of having a jury...in the first place


When there is a likelihood that people like you who don’t care about the Law can get on a Jury, I reckon you are quite right.

Quote:
by 3 men.


Jesus wept.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #608 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 5:32pm
 
cods wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 4:52pm:
I dont care what you say or what the freaking law says....


And there we have it.

Told you, Aussie.

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #609 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 5:35pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 5:32pm:
cods wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 4:52pm:
I dont care what you say or what the freaking law says....


And there we have it.

Told you, Aussie.



Indeed you did.  I have to make an apology to Lord Herbert.  I think I've worked it out now.  He is not the greatest troll ever seen on the Internet.
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red baron
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #610 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 5:41pm
 
I reiterate some of what I consider to be an extraordinary strong circumstantial case against Gerard Baden-Clay for Murder.

Leaves from different species of plants were found about Mrs Baden -Clay’s body. A botanist gave evidence that they included four species – crepe myrtle, cat’s claw creeper, fishbone fern and lilly pilly – which he was able to identify in the   Baden-Clays  ’ garden, but not in the immediate vicinity of the Kholo Creek site where the body was found. Some leaves of the cat’s claw creeper, the fern and the crepe myrtle were entwined in her hair. The crepe myrtle leaves were fallen leaves, the fern leaves were a mix of live and fallen leaves, and one of the cat’s claw creeper leaves appeared to have been pulled from a live plant. Cat’s claw creeper was growing about the carport of the   Baden-Clay   home, while leaf litter from the crepe myrtle and fern were found in the carport and the patio area of the house near its back door.


A million dollar Policy huh? Couldn't have anything to do with the fact that Baden Clay was in deep debt with his Real Estate Agency..after all he tried to borrow $400,000 to stay solvent.  Would have worked out nicely for him if he hadn't been charged with Murder. Got the girl, (his mistress Mc Hugh) didn't save the world but would have picked up a handy little million dollar bonus package.

There had been serious marital disagreements between Gerard and Allison Baden-Clay over his constant philandering.

Blood was found in a rivulet under the seat in the subject vehicle. Baden Clay, whilst thorough, wasn't thorough enough in his cleanup attempt.  The blood belonged to Allison Baden Clay.

Incidentally I have been shaving for well over fifty years, had some nasty cuts from blunt razors but nothing like the wounds that Baden Clay claimed he got shaving 'in a hurry with a blunt razor' what was he using for a razor, a brickies trowel? A razor couldn't have cause those wounds, that's just plain bullsh.t


What the hell is wrong with these three wise monkeys who blew it to Manslaughter. I have seen people convicted on way, way less than this lot.



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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #611 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 5:49pm
 
cods wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 4:52pm:
12 good men and true..said  he was proved guilty   beyond a reasonable doubt........and so do a lot of other people....

3 blokes say he wasnt......

and we have to sit back and accept it......really...

can you tell me whats the point of having a jury...in the first place.. when their verdict can be throw out by 3 men........


Believe it or not, the jury system was founded with one objective in mind..........to protect the innocent.

It may not always be perfect, but it's way better than having but one juror....the representative of the government......a judge, to be supreme determiner of guilt or innocence of a person.


Someone said:


Quote:
The jury is charged with the task of impartially listening to all the evidence, & after fair deliberation, come to a conclusion of guilt or innocence to the best of their ability.

On the other hand, if the jury feels the law is unjust, we the people must recognize the undisputed power of the jury to acquit, even if its verdict is obviously contrary to the law as instructed by a judge, and contrary to the evidence ... and the courts must abide by that decision.

The jury system is the ultimate peaceful use of power by the people over their government.



If the government insists on the guilt of any person, that the jury acquits due to being unable to come to a decision, then that government has the right to present better, more compelling evidence, to a new jury, at a retrial.

BTW.....a personal note....I believe that if the government loses at trial, the government should be responsible for all court costs....the defendant should bear responsibility only for his lawyer, except on retrial, whereas if acquitted on retrial, the government should pay all the defendant's court costs plus the defendant's  legal costs.



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« Last Edit: Jan 9th, 2016 at 5:54pm by Panther »  

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #612 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 6:08pm
 
red baron wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 5:41pm:
I reiterate some of what I consider to be an extraordinary strong circumstantial case against Gerard Baden-Clay for Murder.

Leaves from different species of plants were found about Mrs Baden -Clay’s body. A botanist gave evidence that they included four species – crepe myrtle, cat’s claw creeper, fishbone fern and lilly pilly – which he was able to identify in the   Baden-Clays  ’ garden, but not in the immediate vicinity of the Kholo Creek site where the body was found. Some leaves of the cat’s claw creeper, the fern and the crepe myrtle were entwined in her hair. The crepe myrtle leaves were fallen leaves, the fern leaves were a mix of live and fallen leaves, and one of the cat’s claw creeper leaves appeared to have been pulled from a live plant. Cat’s claw creeper was growing about the carport of the   Baden-Clay   home, while leaf litter from the crepe myrtle and fern were found in the carport and the patio area of the house near its back door.


Which establishes she somehow got vegetation around her home in her hair.  Whoopdeedo.


Quote:
A million dollar Policy huh? Couldn't have anything to do with the fact that Baden Clay was in deep debt with his Real Estate Agency..after all he tried to borrow $400,000 to stay solvent.  Would have worked out nicely for him if he hadn't been charged with Murder. Got the girl, (his mistress Mc Hugh) didn't save the world but would have picked up a handy little million dollar bonus package.


Yeas.  Many people have been in that scenario.  There are some really odd ones even, for example, where a vehicle belonging to a Charity who was the beneficiary in the Will of the deceased, ran down said deceased, killing them.

Quote:
There had been serious marital disagreements between Gerard and Allison Baden-Clay over his constant philandering.


Of course...that is unique only to a situation where one spouse has caused the death of the other.  Yeah, right.

Quote:
Blood was found in a rivulet under the seat in the subject vehicle. Baden Clay, whilst thorough, wasn't thorough enough in his cleanup attempt.  The blood belonged to Allison Baden Clay.


Yeas, and where was the corresponding injury on her which could have been the cause of that bleed.  Hell, I'm pretty sure if any Cab was swabbed, there'd be the blood of a cast of thousands there.  Does that mean the Driver murdered them all?

Quote:
Incidentally I have been shaving for well over fifty years, had some nasty cuts from blunt razors but nothing like the wounds that Baden Clay claimed he got shaving 'in a hurry with a blunt razor' what was he using for a razor, a brickies trowel? A razor couldn't have cause those wounds, that's just plain bullsh.t


Why not post what you mean...bullshit.  And you are right, and that must have been part of the explanation as to why the Jury concluded beyond reasonable doubt he caused her death.  I disagree, but that ship has sailed.


Quote:
What the hell is wrong with these three wise monkeys who blew it to Manslaughter. I have seen people convicted on way, way less than this lot.


Nothing is wrong with them.  They applied the Law. 

To round all that up with a scenario which is quite open on all of that.

They had a domestic.  She was mightily pissed off that he was going broke, and also that he was tom catting.  In blind fury, she scratched his face......he got angry and muscled her outside (so the kids would be less likely disturbed and see their parents fighting) where they wrestled.  No-one knows how but in the fight, she bled.  No-one knows, in the fight, she died and we have no idea of the cause.  He panics.....blah blah blah blah.

No intent to kill established at all in that scenario.




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cods
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #613 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 6:33pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 5:09pm:
Quote:
I dont care what you say or what the freaking law says


I reckon that is very clear. I am a supporter of the Jury system, but you are the best illustration I have come across which indicates it ought be changed significantly.  People who have no respect for the Law have no place in a Jury.

Quote:
doing deals to get the charges lowered or even left out all together...


No deals were done in the Baden-Clay case.

Quote:
can you tell me whats the point of having a jury...in the first place


When there is a likelihood that people like you who don’t care about the Law can get on a Jury, I reckon you are quite right.

Quote:
by 3 men.


Jesus wept.



yes Jesus is weeping alright... your sanctimony is quite sickening..

go away little man...I answered your bizarre question have you answered mine?.. and then I am quite happy to wander this forum and miss you completely... you may have noticed I almost never reply to yourself... or do you struggle with that somehow...?

I am quite happy to put a heading NOT FOR NUMPTY....if that will work.
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cods
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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #614 - Jan 9th, 2016 at 6:33pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 5:32pm:
cods wrote on Jan 9th, 2016 at 4:52pm:
I dont care what you say or what the freaking law says....


And there we have it.

Told you, Aussie.




oooooooooo the girls club.. meeting..
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