Australian Politics Forum - Baden Clay wins appeal.

Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #795 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 9:51am greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 9:40am: So, you're hoping for an outcome that fits in best with your personal views, rather than an objectively just outcome - is that correct? No.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 140118 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #796 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 9:55am Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 9:51am: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 9:40am: So, you're hoping for an outcome that fits in best with your personal views, rather than an objectively just outcome - is that correct? No. So, you'll accept the outcome no matter what happens?
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Kytro

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #797 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:21am

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 8:55am:

Red, forget the rubbish being thrown about by online nobodies.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2016/01/04/baden-clay-appeal-applicat...

Mr Byrne's application, filed on Monday, seeks High Court orders to either dismiss the lower court's ruling or order a re-hearing of Baden-Clay's appeal.

He argues the Court of Appeal erred in applying the principles of circumstantial evidence, and in partly basing its decision on a factual assertion which was not established by evidence.

The DPP also contends the Court of Appeal erred in concluding Baden-Clay's post-offence conduct, which included dumping her body and lying about scratches on his face, did not prove beyond reasonable doubt that he intended to kill or do grievous bodily harm to Allison.

Bottom line? We will need to WAIT.

I am cautiously optimistic about the outcome of THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION.

It's hard to see how these things will go, but this retired supreme court judgedoesn't like their chances.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #798 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:27am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 9:55am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 9:51am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 9:40am:

So, you're hoping for an outcome that fits in best with your personal views, rather than an objectively just outcome - is that correct?

No.

So, you'll accept the outcome no matter what happens?

Perhaps I ought to put it this way...I learned a LONG time ago in my 1st ever law lecture, that the law and justice are NOT synonymous terms.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #799 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:28am Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 9:37am: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/legal-affairs/absurd-gerard-badenclay-a... This does not LOOK promising. Up!
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #800 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:28am

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:27am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 9:55am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 9:51am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 9:40am:

So, you're hoping for an outcome that fits in best with your personal views, rather than an objectively just outcome - is that correct?

No.

So, you'll accept the outcome no matter what happens?

Perhaps I ought to put it this way...I learned a LONG time ago in my 1st ever law lecture, that the law and justice are NOT synonymous terms.

Will you accept the outcome?

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #801 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:32am

Kytro wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:21am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 8:55am:

Red, forget the rubbish being thrown about by online nobodies.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2016/01/04/baden-clay-appeal-applicat...

Mr Byrne's application, filed on Monday, seeks High Court orders to either dismiss the lower court's ruling or order a re-hearing of Baden-Clay's appeal.

He argues the Court of Appeal erred in applying the principles of circumstantial evidence, and in partly basing its decision on a factual assertion which was not established by evidence.

The DPP also contends the Court of Appeal erred in concluding Baden-Clay's post-offence conduct, which included dumping her body and lying about scratches on his face, did not prove beyond reasonable doubt that he intended to kill or do grievous bodily harm to Allison.

Bottom line? We will need to WAIT.

I am cautiously optimistic about the outcome of THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION.

It's hard to see how these things will go, but this retired supreme court judgedoesn't like their chances.

And the stats to date are against success.

I know all this.

Still, I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic.....and wait.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38877 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #802 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:38am Quote: Still, I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic.....and wait. How very gracious and patient of you (as if you had any choice.) 'Cautiously optimistic' of what....leave given, leave not given, appeal upheld or appeal dismissed. Tell us why as well.
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Kytro

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #803 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:40am

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:32am:

And the stats to date are against success.

I know all this.

Still, I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic.....and wait.

The appeal is mostly due to public pressure, which isn't a matter of law. They might just get lucky, but I wouldn't expect it.

The fact the charge downgrade occurred at all is because of the evidence that exists. People might feel that it's unjust, but it's more unjust to convict when there is another plausible explanation.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #804 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:42am

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:32am:

Kytro wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:21am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 8:55am:

Red, forget the rubbish being thrown about by online nobodies.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2016/01/04/baden-clay-appeal-applicat...

Mr Byrne's application, filed on Monday, seeks High Court orders to either dismiss the lower court's ruling or order a re-hearing of Baden-Clay's appeal.

He argues the Court of Appeal erred in applying the principles of circumstantial evidence, and in partly basing its decision on a factual assertion which was not established by evidence.

The DPP also contends the Court of Appeal erred in concluding Baden-Clay's post-offence conduct, which included dumping her body and lying about scratches on his face, did not prove beyond reasonable doubt that he intended to kill or do grievous bodily harm to Allison.

Bottom line? We will need to WAIT.

I am cautiously optimistic about the outcome of THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION.

It's hard to see how these things will go, but this retired supreme court judgedoesn't like their chances.

And the stats to date are against success.

I know all this.

Still, I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic.....and wait.

Will you accept the outcome?

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cods

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #805 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:48am

The Court of Appeal essentially said that the only evidence available in a circumstantial case to permit an inference of intent to kill was the evidence of lies told by the accused to police and in the witness box.

"They said that by itself is not enough, I imagine what the DPP has been doing is combing through the transcript and looking for other evidence that might help support that there was an intent to kill."

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gerard-badenclay-appeal-success-unlikely-retired-supreme-court-judge-says-20151230-glwz6g.html#ixzz3x53R88Rl
Follow us: @brisbanetimes on Twitter | brisbanetimes on Facebook

so lying under oath is ok.. if you kill someone...good to know..

its interesting lisa....

in a court of appeal...lying or actions after the event is not taken into account...

its strange too how the accused swears blacks white he didnt do it had nothing to do with it..

.he didnt kill her...

yet his own lawyer says he did???..... Roll Eyes

when will Gerard sue his lawyer for defamation???...

I would have thought his lawyer should be fighting for an innocent verdict......

surely he believes his client.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38877 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #806 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:50am Quote: yet his own lawyer says he did???..... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes when will Gerard sue his lawyer for defamation???... I would have thought his lawyer should be fighting for an innocent verdict...... surely he believes his client. Where/when did his Lawyers say that, cods?
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Aussie

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #807 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:56am

Aussie wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:38am:

Quote:

Still, I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic.....and wait.

How very gracious and patient of you (as if you had any choice.) 'Cautiously optimistic' of what....leave given, leave not given, appeal upheld or appeal dismissed. Tell us why as well.

So, nothing to say Jones? I thought that might be the case.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #808 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:58am

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 8:55am:

red baron wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 8:17am:

No Aussie, you're not in good company.

You're in the company of three blithering idiots who couldn't work out the simple equation

Gerard Baden-Clay murders Allison Baden-Clay = Gerard Baden Clay gains $967,000 from her insurance and is free of her into the bargain.

Even a 12 year old kid could work that out but not the three wise monkeys....nor you Aussie.

Red, forget the rubbish being thrown about by online nobodies.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2016/01/04/baden-clay-appeal-applicat...

Mr Byrne's application, filed on Monday, seeks High Court orders to either dismiss the lower court's ruling or order a re-hearing of Baden-Clay's appeal.

He argues the Court of Appeal erred in applying the principles of circumstantial evidence, and in partly basing its decision on a factual assertion which was not established by evidence.

The DPP also contends the Court of Appeal erred in concluding Baden-Clay's post-offence conduct, which included dumping her body and lying about scratches on his face, did not prove beyond reasonable doubt that he intended to kill or do grievous bodily harm to Allison.

Bottom line? We will need to WAIT.

I am cautiously optimistic about the outcome of THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION.

Will you accept the outcome, no matter what happens?

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 140118 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #809 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:59am cods wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:48am: its strange too how the accused swears blacks white he didnt do it had nothing to do with it.. .he didnt kill her... yet his own lawyer says he did???..... Do you have a transcript of that?
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