Australian Politics Forum - Baden Clay wins appeal.

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #825 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 1:40pm

red baron wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 12:58pm:

Gregg your reply No 810 about cods and Lisa having laundry to do.

That reply is trite, condescending and like the huge majority of your posts lends nothing to the argument to hand.

That post doesn't demean cods or Lisa but it does demean you and demonstrates you have no respect for your adversaries.

You are strictly a lightweight out of your depth on this thread Gregg.

Oh dear...the irony. You have also made these comments Mr Baron:

Quote:

Until this thread I had a great amount of respect for your knowledge of the law Aussie.

But your application of it in this case exposes huge weaknesses in your thought process.

It is obvious you are desperate to defend the 'three wise monkeys' decisions in this matter.

Their decisions are bullsh.t that's right bullsh.it if I want to spell it that way I will.

Your responses to the points I made are practically childlike and therefore have no weight attached to them .

You also said that I could not work out what a '12 year old kid' could.

You posted:

Quote:

Aussie, your ignorance of the bleeding obvious is like the three wise monkeys...simply breathtaking.

Quote:

....are you as thick as you are demonstrating....

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Kytro

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #826 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 2:02pm

red baron wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 12:49pm:

"A reasonably open hypothesis to that (Baden-Clay's) wife had attacked him, scratching his face.

"In endeavouring to make her stop he had killed her without intending to do so, with his conduct thereafter being attributable to panic.

[b]COMMENT[/b]: Why is this a reasonable hypothesis? Why I could reasonably say there is a reasonable hypothesis to suggest that Gerard and Alison argued vehemently, that he attacked her attempting to strangle her and that he sustained the scratches on his face as Alison desperately fought for her life. Why isn’t this scenario equally as plausible as that of the Appeal Judges?

Yes, it is also a reasonable explanation that he murdered her. They are saying there is another explanations that fits with the facts as well, and because of that the lesser of the charges applies because there is reasonable doubt (that is, another explanation) about murder. They are not saying it more likely, they are saying it created doubt about the murder.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #827 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:05pm

Kytro wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 2:02pm:

red baron wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 12:49pm:

"A reasonably open hypothesis to that (Baden-Clay's) wife had attacked him, scratching his face.

"In endeavouring to make her stop he had killed her without intending to do so, with his conduct thereafter being attributable to panic.

[b]COMMENT[/b]: Why is this a reasonable hypothesis? Why I could reasonably say there is a reasonable hypothesis to suggest that Gerard and Alison argued vehemently, that he attacked her attempting to strangle her and that he sustained the scratches on his face as Alison desperately fought for her life. Why isn’t this scenario equally as plausible as that of the Appeal Judges?

Yes, it is also a reasonable explanation that he murdered her. They are saying there is another explanations that fits with the facts as well, and because of that the lesser of the charges applies because there is reasonable doubt (that is, another explanation) about murder. They are not saying it more likely, they are saying it created doubt about the murder.

That pretty much covers it....

The alternative scenario is equally plausible - but it requires support - whereas with doubt all benefit must go to the defendant....

Did they find his DNA under her nails from scratching his face?

Thought not.... if they had the case would not WHOLLY depend on circumstantial evidence, and reading some of the thoughts put forward here and the misconceptions - I can see that he may well be innocent yet convicted on suspicion.

Now bring on the haters.....

My personal view is he done it - but I can't prove it.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #828 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:16pm

red baron wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 12:58pm:

You are strictly a lightweight out of your depth on this thread Gregg.

Yes.

I'm taking an objective view. That's where I'm going wrong.

Perhaps if I put all reason to one side, only considered matters from my own personal point of view, and completely ignored the rule of law, I would be able to achieve the same high standards as you and cods.

Thanks for the tip Red. I'll take it on-board.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #829 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:27pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 11:18am:

It seems that cods and Lisa both had loads of washing that required urgent attention.

No. The washing was done very early today here. And I only did 2 loads.

We all went to the beach.

NB. Please don't ask me what happened there. I'm still in shock to be brutally honest.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #830 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:30pm

Kytro wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:40am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:32am:

And the stats to date are against success.

I know all this.

Still, I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic.....and wait.

The appeal is mostly due to public pressure, which isn't a matter of law. They might just get lucky, but I wouldn't expect it.

The fact the charge downgrade occurred at all is because of the evidence that exists. People might feel that it's unjust, but it's more unjust to convict when there is another plausible explanation.

I disagree.

Thanks for your opinion though. You're entitled to it I guess.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #831 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:33pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:30pm:

Kytro wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:40am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:32am:

And the stats to date are against success.

I know all this.

Still, I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic.....and wait.

The appeal is mostly due to public pressure, which isn't a matter of law. They might just get lucky, but I wouldn't expect it.

The fact the charge downgrade occurred at all is because of the evidence that exists. People might feel that it's unjust, but it's more unjust to convict when there is another plausible explanation.

I disagree.

Can you be more specific?

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #832 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:34pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 8:55am:

red baron wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 8:17am:

No Aussie, you're not in good company.

You're in the company of three blithering nice people who couldn't work out the simple equation

Gerard Baden-Clay murders Allison Baden-Clay = Gerard Baden Clay gains $967,000 from her insurance and is free of her into the bargain.

Even a 12 year old kid could work that out but not the three wise monkeys....nor you Aussie.

Red, forget the rubbish being thrown about by online nobodies.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2016/01/04/baden-clay-appeal-applicat...

Mr Byrne's application, filed on Monday, seeks High Court orders to either dismiss the lower court's ruling or order a re-hearing of Baden-Clay's appeal.

He argues the Court of Appeal erred in applying the principles of circumstantial evidence, and in partly basing its decision on a factual assertion which was not established by evidence.

The DPP also contends the Court of Appeal erred in concluding Baden-Clay's post-offence conduct, which included dumping her body and lying about scratches on his face, did not prove beyond reasonable doubt that he intended to kill or do grievous bodily harm to Allison.

Bottom line? We will need to WAIT.

I am cautiously optimistic about the outcome of THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION.

Up for Kytro!

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Lisa Jones

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #833 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:35pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:30pm:

Kytro wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:40am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:32am:

And the stats to date are against success.

I know all this.

Still, I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic.....and wait.

The appeal is mostly due to public pressure, which isn't a matter of law. They might just get lucky, but I wouldn't expect it.

The fact the charge downgrade occurred at all is because of the evidence that exists. People might feel that it's unjust, but it's more unjust to convict when there is another plausible explanation.

I disagree.

Thanks for your opinion though. You're entitled to it I guess.

Up for Kytro!

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #834 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:37pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:34pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 8:55am:

red baron wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 8:17am:

No Aussie, you're not in good company.

You're in the company of three blithering nice people who couldn't work out the simple equation

Gerard Baden-Clay murders Allison Baden-Clay = Gerard Baden Clay gains $967,000 from her insurance and is free of her into the bargain.

Even a 12 year old kid could work that out but not the three wise monkeys....nor you Aussie.

Red, forget the rubbish being thrown about by online nobodies.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2016/01/04/baden-clay-appeal-applicat...

Mr Byrne's application, filed on Monday, seeks High Court orders to either dismiss the lower court's ruling or order a re-hearing of Baden-Clay's appeal.

He argues the Court of Appeal erred in applying the principles of circumstantial evidence, and in partly basing its decision on a factual assertion which was not established by evidence.

The DPP also contends the Court of Appeal erred in concluding Baden-Clay's post-offence conduct, which included dumping her body and lying about scratches on his face, did not prove beyond reasonable doubt that he intended to kill or do grievous bodily harm to Allison.

Bottom line? We will need to WAIT.

I am cautiously optimistic about the outcome of THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION.

Up for Kytro!

Optimistic about what?

What do you want to see happen?

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #835 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:39pm "Mr Byrne's application, filed on Monday, seeks High Court orders to EITHER dismiss the lower court's ruling OR order a re-hearing of Baden-Clay's appeal." ^^^^ A very clever and carefully considered request.
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Kytro

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #836 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:41pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:30pm:

Kytro wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:40am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 10:32am:

And the stats to date are against success.

I know all this.

Still, I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic.....and wait.

The appeal is mostly due to public pressure, which isn't a matter of law. They might just get lucky, but I wouldn't expect it.

The fact the charge downgrade occurred at all is because of the evidence that exists. People might feel that it's unjust, but it's more unjust to convict when there is another plausible explanation.

I disagree.

Thanks for your opinion though. You're entitled to it I guess.

By ignoring a reasonable alternative, you lead to people being convicted of crimes they have not committed. How would that be just?

In this case it might not be true, but that still needs to be demonstrated.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38878 Gender:	Re: Baden Clay wins appeal. Reply #837 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:42pm Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:39pm: "Mr Byrne's application, filed on Monday, seeks High Court orders to EITHER dismiss the lower court's ruling OR order a re-hearing of Baden-Clay's appeal." ^^^^ A very clever and carefully considered request. Nothing 'very clever.' It is bog standard pro forma!
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Alinta

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #838 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:42pm

"Now bring on the haters.....

My personal view is he done it - but I can't prove it."

When I toss off my legal hat, my personal view is murder..........not premeditated murder, but when push came to shove during the altercation, intent to kill then formed in his mind.....

Put my legal hat back on and as you say Grappler.......on the evidence, not proven.

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Neferti

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Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #839 - Jan 13^th, 2016 at 3:47pm

Most of us couldn't give a rats arse what happens to GBC.

He has, ostensibly, gotten away with MURDER. Hopefully, while he is incarcerated, he will get "close" to a cell mate and skite about how he "got away with it". They ALL end up telling their "story" to someone, eventually.

He SMOTHERED her.

He interfered with her body.

He LIED for a week or more.

He still thinks he did "nothing wrong". Yet he is incarcerated for "Life" and he wants to get out in 10 years. WHO is paying for this? The Queensland TAXPAYER?

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