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Show us the alternatives says Morrison (Read 7909 times)
Sir lastnail
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Show us the alternatives says Morrison
Dec 16th, 2015 at 8:29am
 
It's called negative gearing and capital gains tax discounts !!

Now repeat after me Mr Morrison.

"Negative Gearing"


And say it one more time:-

"Negative Gearing"
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: Show us the alternatives says Morrison
Reply #1 - Dec 16th, 2015 at 8:37am
 
I can see some argument for negative gearing in a viable business... but at the same time there is absolutely zero argument for any reduced capital gains from the same business.

That is a rort pure and simple.  It is completely non-viable for a government to subsidise making of profit and then even suggest that the rewards of the subsidised profit should then evade tax.  Only a government with a vested self-interest would impose such a ridiculous regime on this 'industry'.

But I suppose that kind of discussion is just 'the politics of envy'.. what utter nonsense.

Side note:-  I still love meeting the 'property millionaires' who need a job to sustain their 'portfolio'.  The question then arises:-  why should a person gain subsidy on that demanded job, when that subsidy is only there to sustain a profit-making venture by the same person, when that profit-making venture is obviously a failure without all the subsidy?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Sir lastnail
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Re: Show us the alternatives says Morrison
Reply #2 - Dec 16th, 2015 at 8:43am
 
Why negative gearing on property sucks

Opponents of negative gearing argue that:

Quote:
It encourages over-investment in residential property, an essentially "unproductive" asset, which is an economic distortion.

Investors inflate the residential property market, making it less affordable for first home buyers or other owner-occupiers.

In Australia in 2007, nine out of ten negatively geared properties were existing dwellings, so the creation of rental supply comes almost entirely at the expense of displacing potential owner-occupiers. Thus, if negative gearing is to exist, it should only be applied to newly constructed properties.

It encourages speculators into the property market, inflating for instance the Australian property bubble that began in the mid-1990s, partly the result of increased availability of credit that occurred following the entry of non-bank lenders into the Australian mortgage market.

Tax deductions and overall benefits accrue to those who already have high incomes. This will make the rich investors even richer and the poorer population even poorer, possibly creating and prolonging a social divide between socioeconomic classes.

Tax deductions reduce government revenue by a significant amount each year, which either represents non-investors subsidising investors, or makes the government less able to provide other programs.


A negatively geared property never generates net income, so losses should not be deductible. Deductibility of business losses when there is a reasonable expectation of gaining income is a well-accepted principle, but the argument against negative gearing is that it will never generate income. Opponents of full deductibility would presumably at least allow losses to be capitalised into the investor's cost base.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_gearing
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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mariacostel
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Re: Show us the alternatives says Morrison
Reply #3 - Dec 16th, 2015 at 11:56am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 16th, 2015 at 8:29am:
It's called negative gearing and capital gains tax discounts !!

Now repeat after me Mr Morrison.

"Negative Gearing"


And say it one more time:-

"Negative Gearing"




You have only one string in your bow.

And you are boring and your opinions worthless because of it.
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mariacostel
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Re: Show us the alternatives says Morrison
Reply #4 - Dec 16th, 2015 at 11:58am
 
Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 16th, 2015 at 8:37am:
I can see some argument for negative gearing in a viable business... but at the same time there is absolutely zero argument for any reduced capital gains from the same business.

That is a rort pure and simple.  It is completely non-viable for a government to subsidise making of profit and then even suggest that the rewards of the subsidised profit should then evade tax.  Only a government with a vested self-interest would impose such a ridiculous regime on this 'industry'.

But I suppose that kind of discussion is just 'the politics of envy'.. what utter nonsense.

Side note:-  I still love meeting the 'property millionaires' who need a job to sustain their 'portfolio'.  The question then arises:-  why should a person gain subsidy on that demanded job, when that subsidy is only there to sustain a profit-making venture by the same person, when that profit-making venture is obviously a failure without all the subsidy?


Because they are trying hard to prepare for retirement while bozos like Nail just rent endlessly and then suck welfare for the rest of their unproductive lives.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Show us the alternatives says Morrison
Reply #5 - Dec 16th, 2015 at 12:02pm
 
No, it is a tax dodge.
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Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
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crocodile
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Re: Show us the alternatives says Morrison
Reply #6 - Dec 16th, 2015 at 12:04pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 16th, 2015 at 8:43am:
Why negative gearing on property sucks

Opponents of negative gearing argue that:

Quote:
It encourages over-investment in residential property, an essentially "unproductive" asset, which is an economic distortion.

Investors inflate the residential property market, making it less affordable for first home buyers or other owner-occupiers.

In Australia in 2007, nine out of ten negatively geared properties were existing dwellings, so the creation of rental supply comes almost entirely at the expense of displacing potential owner-occupiers. Thus, if negative gearing is to exist, it should only be applied to newly constructed properties.

It encourages speculators into the property market, inflating for instance the Australian property bubble that began in the mid-1990s, partly the result of increased availability of credit that occurred following the entry of non-bank lenders into the Australian mortgage market.

Tax deductions and overall benefits accrue to those who already have high incomes. This will make the rich investors even richer and the poorer population even poorer, possibly creating and prolonging a social divide between socioeconomic classes.

Tax deductions reduce government revenue by a significant amount each year, which either represents non-investors subsidising investors, or makes the government less able to provide other programs.


A negatively geared property never generates net income, so losses should not be deductible. Deductibility of business losses when there is a reasonable expectation of gaining income is a well-accepted principle, but the argument against negative gearing is that it will never generate income. Opponents of full deductibility would presumably at least allow losses to be capitalised into the investor's cost base.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_gearing


Sorry Naily, you'll have to do better than pluck a wiki excerpt. There are a number of errors in their assumptions.

The taxation revenue angle has already been fully explained to you in another thread. Ignore it if you wish but it doesn't make it so. Attempting to deflect the argument with the preposterous claim that the CGT is absent if the property is not sold ignores the obvious situation that the absence of capital gain and an absence of rental income is not a viable investment in the first place.

The excerpt gives no consideration to the excess burden created by withdrawal of the tax benefit in that the income stream of the lender is also extinguished and therefore their taxable component vanishes as well. Net result is precisely zero. Swings and roundabouts indeed.

One day Naily will get it.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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Sir lastnail
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Re: Show us the alternatives says Morrison
Reply #7 - Dec 16th, 2015 at 12:34pm
 
crocodile wrote on Dec 16th, 2015 at 12:04pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 16th, 2015 at 8:43am:
Why negative gearing on property sucks

Opponents of negative gearing argue that:

Quote:
It encourages over-investment in residential property, an essentially "unproductive" asset, which is an economic distortion.

Investors inflate the residential property market, making it less affordable for first home buyers or other owner-occupiers.

In Australia in 2007, nine out of ten negatively geared properties were existing dwellings, so the creation of rental supply comes almost entirely at the expense of displacing potential owner-occupiers. Thus, if negative gearing is to exist, it should only be applied to newly constructed properties.

It encourages speculators into the property market, inflating for instance the Australian property bubble that began in the mid-1990s, partly the result of increased availability of credit that occurred following the entry of non-bank lenders into the Australian mortgage market.

Tax deductions and overall benefits accrue to those who already have high incomes. This will make the rich investors even richer and the poorer population even poorer, possibly creating and prolonging a social divide between socioeconomic classes.

Tax deductions reduce government revenue by a significant amount each year, which either represents non-investors subsidising investors, or makes the government less able to provide other programs.


A negatively geared property never generates net income, so losses should not be deductible. Deductibility of business losses when there is a reasonable expectation of gaining income is a well-accepted principle, but the argument against negative gearing is that it will never generate income. Opponents of full deductibility would presumably at least allow losses to be capitalised into the investor's cost base.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_gearing


Sorry Naily, you'll have to do better than pluck a wiki excerpt. There are a number of errors in their assumptions.

The taxation revenue angle has already been fully explained to you in another thread. Ignore it if you wish but it doesn't make it so. Attempting to deflect the argument with the preposterous claim that the CGT is absent if the property is not sold ignores the obvious situation that the absence of capital gain and an absence of rental income is not a viable investment in the first place.

The excerpt gives no consideration to the excess burden created by withdrawal of the tax benefit in that the income stream of the lender is also extinguished and therefore their taxable component vanishes as well. Net result is precisely zero. Swings and roundabouts indeed.

One day Naily will get it.



Then offset the interest payments from the rental income and then carry forward the net losses when the property is sold and not before hand !! The losses should be quarantined from any other source of income !!

Maybe one day you will get it if you take off your rose colored glasses Wink
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Sir lastnail
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Re: Show us the alternatives says Morrison
Reply #8 - Dec 16th, 2015 at 12:37pm
 
mariacostel wrote on Dec 16th, 2015 at 11:56am:
Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 16th, 2015 at 8:29am:
It's called negative gearing and capital gains tax discounts !!

Now repeat after me Mr Morrison.

"Negative Gearing"


And say it one more time:-

"Negative Gearing"




You have only one string in your bow.

And you are boring and your opinions worthless because of it.


That particular string annoys you of course. What must be even more annoying is that the greens also agree on this subject but hey lets start nobbling the punters blood tests instead because that is less important than peoples retirement stash Sad
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« Last Edit: Dec 16th, 2015 at 1:09pm by Sir lastnail »  

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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crocodile
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Re: Show us the alternatives says Morrison
Reply #9 - Dec 16th, 2015 at 1:59pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 16th, 2015 at 12:34pm:
crocodile wrote on Dec 16th, 2015 at 12:04pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 16th, 2015 at 8:43am:
Why negative gearing on property sucks

Opponents of negative gearing argue that:

Quote:
It encourages over-investment in residential property, an essentially "unproductive" asset, which is an economic distortion.

Investors inflate the residential property market, making it less affordable for first home buyers or other owner-occupiers.

In Australia in 2007, nine out of ten negatively geared properties were existing dwellings, so the creation of rental supply comes almost entirely at the expense of displacing potential owner-occupiers. Thus, if negative gearing is to exist, it should only be applied to newly constructed properties.

It encourages speculators into the property market, inflating for instance the Australian property bubble that began in the mid-1990s, partly the result of increased availability of credit that occurred following the entry of non-bank lenders into the Australian mortgage market.

Tax deductions and overall benefits accrue to those who already have high incomes. This will make the rich investors even richer and the poorer population even poorer, possibly creating and prolonging a social divide between socioeconomic classes.

Tax deductions reduce government revenue by a significant amount each year, which either represents non-investors subsidising investors, or makes the government less able to provide other programs.


A negatively geared property never generates net income, so losses should not be deductible. Deductibility of business losses when there is a reasonable expectation of gaining income is a well-accepted principle, but the argument against negative gearing is that it will never generate income. Opponents of full deductibility would presumably at least allow losses to be capitalised into the investor's cost base.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_gearing


Sorry Naily, you'll have to do better than pluck a wiki excerpt. There are a number of errors in their assumptions.

The taxation revenue angle has already been fully explained to you in another thread. Ignore it if you wish but it doesn't make it so. Attempting to deflect the argument with the preposterous claim that the CGT is absent if the property is not sold ignores the obvious situation that the absence of capital gain and an absence of rental income is not a viable investment in the first place.

The excerpt gives no consideration to the excess burden created by withdrawal of the tax benefit in that the income stream of the lender is also extinguished and therefore their taxable component vanishes as well. Net result is precisely zero. Swings and roundabouts indeed.

One day Naily will get it.



Then offset the interest payments from the rental income and then carry forward the net losses when the property is sold and not before hand !! The losses should be quarantined from any other source of income !!

Maybe one day you will get it if you take off your rose colored glasses Wink


If they were incorporated that would indeed be the rule. It has never been the case for unincorporated entities and sole traders.

No coloured glasses here. I already get it. You simply have no clue regarding public finance.
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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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Phemanderac
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Re: Show us the alternatives says Morrison
Reply #10 - Dec 16th, 2015 at 2:01pm
 
Well, the bottom line is, it is Mr Morrison and Co's job to show us the alternatives....

Hence the big bucks and exploitable benefits.





Edit: typo fix.
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« Last Edit: Dec 16th, 2015 at 3:39pm by Phemanderac »  

On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..
 
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Grappler Deep State Feller
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Re: Show us the alternatives says Morrison
Reply #11 - Dec 16th, 2015 at 2:10pm
 
crocodile wrote on Dec 16th, 2015 at 1:59pm:
If they were incorporated that would indeed be the rule. It has never been the case for unincorporated entities and sole traders.

No coloured glasses here. I already get it. You simply have no clue regarding public finance.


Are you advocating that all businesses be brought under the same umbrella for taxation etc?  Not such a bad idea.  What we are discussing here is people who are dealing with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of assets and cashflows and potential profits every year.... why are they NOT incorporated or held to the same business standard?

What is so special about serial house ownership that it should have beneficial capital gains, when the entire purpose of it is to generate profit?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Show us the alternatives says Morrison
Reply #12 - Dec 16th, 2015 at 2:10pm
 
Just HOW many times does this incompetent and heartless fir-kwit
need to have the alternatives pointed out to him?

Is he THAT incompetent - or is he just plain firkin evil?
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...
 
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Show us the alternatives says Morrison
Reply #13 - Dec 16th, 2015 at 2:13pm
 
Both.
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Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.
 
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John Smith
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Re: Show us the alternatives says Morrison
Reply #14 - Dec 16th, 2015 at 2:16pm
 
Show us the alternatives says Morrison

gee ... where to start Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

- cut corporate subsidies
- cut / change the capital gains tax and negative gearing rules (not abolish)
- abolish superannuation subsidies
- cut subsidies to private health
- cut subsidies to private education

that'll do for a start .... plenty more where they come from
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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