Australian Politics Forum - Vegans are bad for environment

freediver

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Re: Vegans are bad for environment
Reply #30 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 3:26pm

mothra wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 1:13pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 12:50pm:

How can the cattle industry be more efficient than veges? Milk production alone requires kilograms of feed per liter. Milk production requires constant breeding for lactation. 50% of those cows (the males) must be culled or sold off as beef products. The land degredation from cattle is a constant complaint of farmers. The methane produced is a major greenhouse issue.

There is no way this study can support itself. It appears, however, to address pork, not beef.

There is certainly much more water used in the production of meat than in the production of plants.

When you consider that the supply of water is going to be one of the most pressing issues in the not too distant future, there are more arguments against meat than for it.

Despite the findings of this very flawed study.

In it's simplest form, you just let cattle wander round the paddock and do their thing. The methane bit is hard to get around, but there are plenty of non-ruminant grazers. Roo meat is a good option. They are pretty much free. Grazing animals can actually improve soil quality.

Most of the water is rainfall directly onto the ground that is otherwise marginal for food production - not sucking it out of rivers and aquifers for intensive production.

Most commercial vege production requires huge energy input. Fertiliser production for example requires huge amounts of energy.

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Vegans are bad for environment Reply #31 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 3:37pm Mass production of fruits and vegetables also require land clearing
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Karnal

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Re: Vegans are bad for environment
Reply #32 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:21pm

freediver wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 3:26pm:

Fertiliser production for example requires huge amounts of energy.

Good point, but that's industrial farming methods for you. Most of the world's beef is grain-fed, which requires corn, not grass.

There's no way to spin this, meat is not an efficient food source.

I'm sure the cows would agree.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49371 At my desk.	Re: Vegans are bad for environment Reply #33 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:25pm So eat Roo. It is all 100% free range grass fed and shot with a rifle the way God intended. Or get the grass fed beef. They have started labeling it.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17980 Gender:	Re: Vegans are bad for environment Reply #34 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:31pm Wouldn't it be easier to just sequester vegans?
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96416	Re: Vegans are bad for environment Reply #35 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:37pm freediver wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:25pm: So eat Roo. It is all 100% free range grass fed and shot with a rifle the way God intended. Or get the grass fed beef. They have started labeling it. I would if the roo or the cows offered themselves to let me eat them, FD. Most of the ones I meet want me to feed them.
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lee

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Re: Vegans are bad for environment
Reply #36 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:39pm

freediver wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 3:26pm:

The methane bit is hard to get around, but there are plenty of non-ruminant grazers. Roo meat is a good option.

'If you eat kangaroo meat thinking it is free of the environmentally harmful greenhouse gases produced by the bucketloads by farm animals, think again.

Researchers have busted that myth, finding that kangaroos produce as much gas as other herbivores such as horses.'

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/kangaroos-produce-as-much-methane-as-horses-re...

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Vegans are bad for environment
Reply #37 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:45pm

Grass fed beef is delicious, so is roo. Grain fed beef sucks.

There is a huge loss of life by small animals when land gets ploughed. Veges do take lots of water. In Virginia, SA they use water from the Bolivar Sewerage Works.

ehehehehe I had a boss I really disliked, gave him a message “Ring Sue Ridge” and gave the number of the Bolivar works. Took the idiot 20 minutes to work it out Cheesy

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freediver

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Re: Vegans are bad for environment
Reply #38 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:49pm

lee wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:39pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 3:26pm:

The methane bit is hard to get around, but there are plenty of non-ruminant grazers. Roo meat is a good option.

'If you eat kangaroo meat thinking it is free of the environmentally harmful greenhouse gases produced by the bucketloads by farm animals, think again.

Researchers have busted that myth, finding that kangaroos produce as much gas as other herbivores such as horses.'

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/kangaroos-produce-as-much-methane-as-horses-re...

From your article:

Researcher Adam Munn said kangaroos could still be considered environmentally friendly, as they produced significantly less methane than cows. They also eat less food and drink less water than traditional livestock.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96416	Re: Vegans are bad for environment Reply #39 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:54pm Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:45pm: In Virginia, SA they use water from the Bolivar Sewerage Works. This is the way it should be done. Use sewerage, and there's no more need for phosphates.
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mothra

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Re: Vegans are bad for environment
Reply #40 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:55pm

freediver wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:25pm:

So eat Roo. It is all 100% free range grass fed and shot with a rifle the way God intended.
.

And more often than not not killed cleanly. Often enough there is a joey in the pouch. Do you know what roo shooters do with joeys? The ones that don't run away to be eaten by predators or starve to death that is.

Do you know there are 27 species of kangaroo and wallaby? Some are endangered or protected. Did you also know that 6 macropod species have become extinct in the last 100 years?

Did you know that kangaroos are migratory and get trapped against fences, making it seem as though their populations are bigger than they are and what is often considered to be 'plague' numbers is nothing more than animals caught out in their movements?

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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lee

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Re: Vegans are bad for environment
Reply #41 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:59pm

Yep. And then there is this -

'Wetland methane emissions are thought to comprise around 80 percent of the total natural methane source, with methane release from termites, methane hydrates (frozen deposits of methane), and the emission from the oceans also being important.'

http://www.eoearth.org/view/article/154589/

So 80% from wetlands, significant amounts from termites and hydrates, doesn't seem to leave 20% for cows.

And then of course there were huge herds of bison, before hunting and trapping of them, I guess cows merely took their place.

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freediver

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Re: Vegans are bad for environment
Reply #42 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 5:12pm

mothra wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:55pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:25pm:

So eat Roo. It is all 100% free range grass fed and shot with a rifle the way God intended.
.

And more often than not not killed cleanly. Often enough there is a joey in the pouch. Do you know what roo shooters do with joeys? The ones that don't run away to be eaten by predators or starve to death that is.

Do you know there are 27 species of kangaroo and wallaby? Some are endangered or protected. Did you also know that 6 macropod species have become extinct in the last 100 years?

Did you know that kangaroos are migratory and get trapped against fences, making it seem as though their populations are bigger than they are and what is often considered to be 'plague' numbers is nothing more than animals caught out in their movements?

Some fish species are endangered. Does that mean we should stop eating seafood? Should we stop eating beef because the aurochs went extinct? How about we stop eating chicken on account of all the endangered birds out there?

Have you ever seen a kangaroo trapped against a fence? Have you ever left the city?

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mothra

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Re: Vegans are bad for environment
Reply #43 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 5:22pm

freediver wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 5:12pm:

mothra wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:55pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:25pm:

So eat Roo. It is all 100% free range grass fed and shot with a rifle the way God intended.
.

And more often than not not killed cleanly. Often enough there is a joey in the pouch. Do you know what roo shooters do with joeys? The ones that don't run away to be eaten by predators or starve to death that is.

Do you know there are 27 species of kangaroo and wallaby? Some are endangered or protected. Did you also know that 6 macropod species have become extinct in the last 100 years?

Did you know that kangaroos are migratory and get trapped against fences, making it seem as though their populations are bigger than they are and what is often considered to be 'plague' numbers is nothing more than animals caught out in their movements?

Some fish species are endangered. Does that mean we should stop eating seafood? Should we stop eating beef because the aurochs went extinct? How about we stop eating chicken on account of all the endangered birds out there?

Have you ever seen a kangaroo trapped against a fence? Have you ever left the city?

The point that clearly failed to leave an impression on you is that can you be sure the species of kangaroo being culled is in abundant numbers FD. You should have been able to work it out for yourself but you got all defensive instead. Gets in the way of a proper think.

And yes i've left the city. I don't live in the city. And yes i've seen roos caught up against fences. I've also seen roos injured by fences. You think they all just bounce happily over? Some fences, FD are taller than others.

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Karnal

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Re: Vegans are bad for environment
Reply #44 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 5:25pm

freediver wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 5:12pm:

mothra wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:55pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:25pm:

So eat Roo. It is all 100% free range grass fed and shot with a rifle the way God intended.
.

And more often than not not killed cleanly. Often enough there is a joey in the pouch. Do you know what roo shooters do with joeys? The ones that don't run away to be eaten by predators or starve to death that is.

Do you know there are 27 species of kangaroo and wallaby? Some are endangered or protected. Did you also know that 6 macropod species have become extinct in the last 100 years?

Did you know that kangaroos are migratory and get trapped against fences, making it seem as though their populations are bigger than they are and what is often considered to be 'plague' numbers is nothing more than animals caught out in their movements?

Some fish species are endangered. Does that mean we should stop eating seafood?

Of course. That's what catch quotas are all about.

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