Australian Politics Forum - Muslim countries are MOST racist

ian

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Re: Muslim countries are MOST racist
Reply #45 - Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 11:50pm

Karnal wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 11:01pm:

ian wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58pm:

I was there less than 2 years ago and Maqqa is correct.

I didn’t say Maqqa wasn’t correct, dear. I’m asking about the source of his claim.

You got a richshaw in Pahar Ganj, so you’d be up in these things.

there are no rickshaws in Pahargunj, or anywhere else in India. they were outlawed years ago. You have the option of walking, taking a taxi or one of those 3 wheeled things. All options highly dangerous.

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Maqqa

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Re: Muslim countries are MOST racist
Reply #46 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:53am

Karnal wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 10:43pm:

Maqqa wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 9:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 8:37pm:

When were you last in India, Maqqa?

I’m curious.

Why would this be relevant karnal

It relates to your knowledge of how Indians relate to each other, Maqqa. You know, your belief that caste bigotry is rife.

You couldn’t possibly know things like that if you hadn’t been there, and in the past few years.

When were you there? Which states did you visit?

lol

This is a similar tactic used by footballers/cricketers when others have an opinion on football/cricket

When some one makes a comment about football/cricket - they ask "Have you ever played football/cricket at the highest level. Then how do you know"

They claim a monopoly on knowledge of the game to only those who played the game

As for "being there" that's also a fallacy. If "being there" is a true measure of understanding then Neil Armstrong and anyone who set foot on the moon would know about the moon

I know this tactic which is why i asked "why is it relevant"

caste bigotry in India didn't happen overnight - it trace itself back to Islamic origins in the 12th century

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« Last Edit: Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:58am by Maqqa »

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Setanta Gold Member Offline \/ Peace man! Posts: 16625 Northern NSW Gender:	Re: Muslim countries are MOST racist Reply #47 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 6:44am Maqqa wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:53am: caste bigotry in India didn't happen overnight - it trace itself back to Islamic origins in the 12th century No, it's much older and I would say goes back to the Indo-Europeans moving into India. You can read about caste in the Rig Veda.
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Maqqa

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Re: Muslim countries are MOST racist
Reply #48 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 8:45am

Setanta wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 6:44am:

Maqqa wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:53am:

caste bigotry in India didn't happen overnight - it trace itself back to Islamic origins in the 12th century

No, it's much older and I would say goes back to the Indo-Europeans moving into India. You can read about caste in the Rig Veda.

I was trying to make a point about "being there"

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Karnal

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Re: Muslim countries are MOST racist
Reply #49 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 10:37am

Maqqa wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:53am:

Karnal wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 10:43pm:

Maqqa wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 9:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 8:37pm:

When were you last in India, Maqqa?

I’m curious.

Why would this be relevant karnal

It relates to your knowledge of how Indians relate to each other, Maqqa. You know, your belief that caste bigotry is rife.

You couldn’t possibly know things like that if you hadn’t been there, and in the past few years.

When were you there? Which states did you visit?

lol

This is a similar tactic used by footballers/cricketers when others have an opinion on football/cricket

When some one makes a comment about football/cricket - they ask "Have you ever played football/cricket at the highest level. Then how do you know"

They claim a monopoly on knowledge of the game to only those who played the game

As for "being there" that's also a fallacy. If "being there" is a true measure of understanding then Neil Armstrong and anyone who set foot on the moon would know about the moon

Being in a culture is the only true measure of understanding it, Maqqa. Imagine if someone from India made a claim like racist bigotry is rife in Australia. You'd be all over it.

Such arrogance would be astounding. That's why I'm asking you when you were there. How could anyone make such a claim about a culture they've never visited or know anything about?

Just say when you were there, Maqqa, and we'll know the source of your knowledge. India has changed radically in the past ten years. In most of India, caste is secondary to wealth. In the major cities, caste is quite irrelevant.

When were you there?

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Muslim countries are MOST racist Reply #50 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 10:38am Karnal wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 10:37am: [ India has changed radically in the past ten years. In most of India, caste is secondary to wealth. In the major cities, caste is quite irrelevant. When were you there? Codswalloop. Caste is as important as it ever was. I can tell you havent been there.
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Maqqa

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Re: Muslim countries are MOST racist
Reply #51 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:19pm

Karnal wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 10:37am:

Being in a culture is the only true measure of understanding it, Maqqa. Imagine if someone from India made a claim like racist bigotry is rife in Australia. You'd be all over it.

I would ask them based on what? Is it based upon a sample space of events or one or 2 incidents. Is it based on. Being in a culture gives you a sample space of walking around the neighbourhood or talking to at best a few 100 people from 1.3B. So you are incorrect

Such arrogance would be astounding. That's why I'm asking you when you were there. How could anyone make such a claim about a culture they've never visited or know anything about?

Using a "have you been there" argument does not make you correct

Just say when you were there, Maqqa, and we'll know the source of your knowledge. India has changed radically in the past ten years. In most of India, caste is secondary to wealth. In the major cities, caste is quite irrelevant.
This last sentence says it all to your understanding. I am not talking about major cities - I am referring to their society

When were you there?

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Setanta

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Re: Muslim countries are MOST racist
Reply #52 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:53pm

Maqqa wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 8:45am:

Setanta wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 6:44am:

Maqqa wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:53am:

caste bigotry in India didn't happen overnight - it trace itself back to Islamic origins in the 12th century

No, it's much older and I would say goes back to the Indo-Europeans moving into India. You can read about caste in the Rig Veda.

I was trying to make a point about "being there"

Sounded like you were blaming Islam. Wink

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Karnal

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Re: Muslim countries are MOST racist
Reply #53 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 5:15pm

ian wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 10:38am:

Karnal wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 10:37am:

[ India has changed radically in the past ten years. In most of India, caste is secondary to wealth. In the major cities, caste is quite irrelevant.

When were you there?

Codswalloop. Caste is as important as it ever was. I can tell you havent been there.

Have a look at the marriage ads in any capital city newspaper. Many state caste and religion as not important. Talk to Indians - you can do that in Australia too. In rural areas, caste can still be important, but it depends.

The British system had 5 castes, but prior to this, people were divided into castes for professions. Sweet maker, sweeper, gold seller, farmer. Last names still reflect this, but those castes are long gone.

I know someone called Patel. I asked her what caste she's from, and she said, Patel. What does this mean? It's just a family in Gujurat. Brahmin? No. Shudra? No. Which? Just Patel.

Caste still exists - mainly to the older generations. You'll find that for most educated younger people choosing husbands for their daughters and sisters, for example, caste is completely irrelevant in their decision-making, even if they do acknowledge the importance of caste to others.

There's also a reverse-caste snobbery going on in India. Untouchables have been given quotas in the public service for years, and this in itself causes some resentment/envy. In some states, this means you can bypass the exams and bribes you often have to pay, and that's important. A public service job in India is highly prized. It can be far more important than your caste.

What Indians tend to say today is that, yes, caste is no longer relevant, but yes, it is still relevant. Like everything in India, caste is a riddle you'll never get a straight answer to.

But rife? As relevant as it ever was?

You only need to go back to the days of brides burning themselves to death on their husbands' funeral pyres to know that caste is not what it was.

Nothing in India changes, but nothing stays the same. Pretending you know the answer to these things is hubris of the highest order.

Even Indians will tell you that.

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« Last Edit: Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 5:31pm by Karnal »

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96506	Re: Muslim countries are MOST racist Reply #54 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 5:28pm ian wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 11:50pm: or one of those 3 wheeled things. Ah.
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ian

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Re: Muslim countries are MOST racist
Reply #55 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 5:45pm

Karnal wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 5:15pm:

ian wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 10:38am:

Karnal wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 10:37am:

[ India has changed radically in the past ten years. In most of India, caste is secondary to wealth. In the major cities, caste is quite irrelevant.

When were you there?

Codswalloop. Caste is as important as it ever was. I can tell you havent been there.

Have a look at the marriage ads in any capital city newspaper. Many state caste and religion as not important. Talk to Indians - you can do that in Australia too. In rural areas, caste can still be important, but it depends.

The British system had 5 castes, but prior to this, people were divided into castes for professions. Sweet maker, sweeper, gold seller, farmer. Last names still reflect this, but those castes are long gone.

I know someone called Patel. I asked her what caste she's from, and she said, Patel. What does this mean? It's just a family in Gujurat. Brahmin? No. Shudra? No. Which? Just Patel.

Caste still exists - mainly to the older generations. You'll find that for most educated younger people choosing husbands for their daughters and sisters, for example, caste is completely irrelevant in their decision-making, even if they do acknowledge the importance of caste to others.

There's also a reverse-caste snobbery going on in India. Untouchables have been given quotas in the public service for years, and this in itself causes some resentment/envy. In some states, this means you can bypass the exams and bribes you often have to pay, and that's important. A public service job in India is highly prized. It can be far more important than your caste.

What Indians tend to say today is that, yes, caste is no longer relevant, but yes, it is still relevant. Like everything in India, caste is a riddle you'll never get a straight answer to.

But rife? As relevant as it ever was?

You only need to go back to the days of brides burning themselves to death on their husbands' funeral pyres to know that caste is not what it was.

Nothing in India changes, but nothing stays the same. Pretending you know the answer to these things is hubris of the highest order.

Even Indians will tell you that.

you couldnt be more wrong. Caste is a fact of everyday life in all areas of India. everything you just posted is totally incorrect. Tell me again about the "rickshaws" in India which don t exist mr expert.

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ian

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Re: Muslim countries are MOST racist
Reply #56 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 5:47pm

Karnal wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 5:15pm:

Pretending you know the answer to these things is hubris of the highest order.

well then you probably need to shut up.
caste system for dummies
Quote:

The Tragic Truth About India's Caste System
Untouchables cling to it because they have few other choices.

My American friends frequently ask me why India’s caste system, a pre-feudalistic division of labor that assigns one’s line of work at birth, has persisted into the 21st century in defiance of every civilized notion of justice and equality. I thought I knew the answer: The need of the privileged upper castes for cheap labor to do their dirty work. But there is an even more tragic explanation that I discovered during a recent visit to New Delhi while talking to Maya, the dalit or untouchable—the lowest of the four castes—who has serviced my family for 35 years. Maya herself clings to her caste because it offers her the best possible life, even in modern India.
The puzzling thing about the caste system is that it has endured without any legal force backing it. Unlike slavery, under which whites actively relied on authorities to maintain their slave holdings, the caste system is an informal, self-perpetuating institution that has resisted half-a-century worth of (ham-handed) government efforts to eradicate it

https://reason.com/archives/2012/01/24/the-tragic-truth-about-indias-caste-syst

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Karnal

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Re: Muslim countries are MOST racist
Reply #57 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 5:55pm

ian wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 5:45pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 5:15pm:

ian wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 10:38am:

Karnal wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 10:37am:

[ India has changed radically in the past ten years. In most of India, caste is secondary to wealth. In the major cities, caste is quite irrelevant.

When were you there?

Codswalloop. Caste is as important as it ever was. I can tell you havent been there.

Have a look at the marriage ads in any capital city newspaper. Many state caste and religion as not important. Talk to Indians - you can do that in Australia too. In rural areas, caste can still be important, but it depends.

The British system had 5 castes, but prior to this, people were divided into castes for professions. Sweet maker, sweeper, gold seller, farmer. Last names still reflect this, but those castes are long gone.

I know someone called Patel. I asked her what caste she's from, and she said, Patel. What does this mean? It's just a family in Gujurat. Brahmin? No. Shudra? No. Which? Just Patel.

Caste still exists - mainly to the older generations. You'll find that for most educated younger people choosing husbands for their daughters and sisters, for example, caste is completely irrelevant in their decision-making, even if they do acknowledge the importance of caste to others.

There's also a reverse-caste snobbery going on in India. Untouchables have been given quotas in the public service for years, and this in itself causes some resentment/envy. In some states, this means you can bypass the exams and bribes you often have to pay, and that's important. A public service job in India is highly prized. It can be far more important than your caste.

What Indians tend to say today is that, yes, caste is no longer relevant, but yes, it is still relevant. Like everything in India, caste is a riddle you'll never get a straight answer to.

But rife? As relevant as it ever was?

You only need to go back to the days of brides burning themselves to death on their husbands' funeral pyres to know that caste is not what it was.

Nothing in India changes, but nothing stays the same. Pretending you know the answer to these things is hubris of the highest order.

Even Indians will tell you that.

you couldnt be more wrong. Caste is a fact of everyday life in all areas of India. everything you just posted is totally incorrect. Tell me again about the "rickshaws" in India which don t exist mr expert.

Visit Kolkata, dear. Or go in one of those "three-wheelers".

What did you say they were called again?

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Muslim countries are MOST racist Reply #58 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 6:06pm Karnal wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 5:28pm: ian wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 11:50pm: or one of those 3 wheeled things. Ah. I lol'd hard at this. Ian have you considered stand up?
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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Muslim countries are MOST racist
Reply #59 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 7:59pm

Turkey is racist but not really because it is Muslim. It's because they are fiercely nationalist. They're very anti-Kurdish, and possess animosity toward Arabs, Greeks, Armenians, and Europeans (especially the French). Deaths between Turks and Kurds occurs everyday. It's laughable, then, that Australians are cast as racist when they merely say a few harmless words about some incompatible culture.

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