Australian Politics Forum - Liberals want penalty rates cut

greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139247 Gender:	Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut Reply #135 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 10:57am Kytro wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 10:49am: I don't think the difference is big enough to justify the difference in rates ... Hmmm, I disagree. I think there's a big difference between Sundays and Saturdays. Sundays & Public Holidays should continue to attract a higher penalty rate.
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Dnarever

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Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut
Reply #136 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 10:58am

mariacostel wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 10:26am:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 7:51am:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 6:01am:

If you are being bullied by union members for not being in a union then you are effectively being bullied by a union. if you cannot see that then... I am not surprised.

Justified criticism from work mates falls way short of bullying and even though they are union members they have no official union standing. It is not the same thing and it is not what was originally stated.

These are just people who can see that they are spending money to get a result and that these others are sponging off them or probably more accurately bludging on them. They take all the benefits but refuse to contribute to the process.

These people are bludgers and it is understandable that their work mates question the integrity of their actions.

You just cant help yourself 'justified' as if the industrial conditions of today are entirely the product of todays unions. The real work was done many decades ago long before you were even born. Stop claiming ownership of something you had nothing to do with. Paying union dues does not give you that ownership.

Paying union dues does not give you that ownership

Not paying certainly doesn't.

Besides I was primarily referring to current improvements at the time.

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 59215 Here Gender:	Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut Reply #137 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:02am mariacostel wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 4:04pm: So changing Sunday rates to that of Saturday rates is a great evil? You arguing in favour of a moderate evil ?
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mariacostel

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Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut
Reply #138 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:04am

Kiron22 wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 10:46am:

I argue there is a difference between Saturday and Sunday.

Saturday night is the "major night" of the week for people, it's when everything is on, it's when most people go out, it's when big events happen.

Having to go to to bed early on Saturday to wake up and work early Sunday does cut into important leisure and social time.

Another point lost here I think is how rostering often is done in a way that doesn't even feel like you get days off. Often you will get a tuesday off and a friday off. When you get rostered days off separate from each other especially during the week it often feels like you have no time to really relax or do anything, you can't enjoy night life, all your friends in 9-5 jobs are working, it's hard to plan things out and you're rushing around to get things done in a single day.

I think penalty rates is also an incentive for employers to give employees weekends off, not just two random days.

It's called 'work' for a reason.

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Swagman

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Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut
Reply #139 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:47am

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 9:26am:

Swagman wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 9:22am:

Kytro wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 8:44am:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 4:04pm:

So changing Sunday rates to that of Saturday rates is a great evil?

It's not, but they shouldn't be reducing the pay overall. I tend to agree there isn't much difference between Saturday and Sunday, so the rates should probably be the same, but they should be a median point between Saturday and Sunday.

The day shouldn't matter one iota. It's the demand & supply for the labour.

You don't know much about penalty rates, do you? (of course you don't)

It's ALL about the day.

Penalty rates compensate people for working unsocial hours.

i.e. weekends, and evenings.

Weekends and evenings are not necessarily "unsociable" to everyone, so that argument is absolute nonsense.

You comrades are supposed to be 'Progressives'?

Think progressively and stop living in the 1960s Cheesy

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut
Reply #140 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:50am

Swagman wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:47am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 9:26am:

Swagman wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 9:22am:

Kytro wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 8:44am:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 4:04pm:

So changing Sunday rates to that of Saturday rates is a great evil?

It's not, but they shouldn't be reducing the pay overall. I tend to agree there isn't much difference between Saturday and Sunday, so the rates should probably be the same, but they should be a median point between Saturday and Sunday.

The day shouldn't matter one iota. It's the demand & supply for the labour.

You don't know much about penalty rates, do you? (of course you don't)

It's ALL about the day.

Penalty rates compensate people for working unsocial hours.

i.e. weekends, and evenings.

Weekends and evenings are not necessarily "unsociable" to everyone, so that argument is absolute nonsense.

They are unsocial hours for most people.

Thus, we have penalty rates to compensate anyone who works those rosters.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139247 Gender:	Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut Reply #141 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:54am Swagman wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:47am: Think progressively and stop living in the 1960s Cutting the wages of millions of workers is not progressive.
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the good ole boys Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 658 Gender:	Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut Reply #142 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:54am I was watching a broadcast on this issue the other day. It applies to people in hospitality and not for paramedics for example. Why? Let's hope the unions show some spine and stop this rubbish. I doubt it though. They are useless.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut
Reply #143 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 12:09pm

the good ole boys wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:54am:

It applies to people in hospitality and not for paramedics for example. Why?

Easy targets.

the good ole boys wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:54am:

Let's hope the unions show some spine and stop this rubbish. I doubt it though. They are useless.

"Unions have vowed to unleash a "fierce" grassroots and social media campaign against any federal government attempt to cut penalty rates, which they say will be bigger than the Your Rights at Work campaign that neutered the former Howard government in 2007."

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/unions-to-revive-workchoic...

http://www.australianunions.org.au/saveourweekend_petition

http://protectpenaltyrates.org.au/christmas/

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 59215 Here Gender:	Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut Reply #144 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 12:35pm I would like to see employees vote with their feet and close down all these businesses to teach them the lesson they deserve. Then nobody would be drinking coffee on the weekends or shopping at Woolworths or Kmart.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut
Reply #145 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 12:47pm

Dnarever wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 12:35pm:

I would like to see employees vote with their feet and close down all these businesses to teach them the lesson they deserve.

Then nobody would be drinking coffee on the weekends or shopping at Woolworths or Kmart.

Yes, it would be good to see.

The bullying is just going to get worse.

I was in a CBD Woolworths 10 minutes ago, and I witnessed an employee being bullied into working on Boxing Day.

The manager lied to the poor girl and told her that it was compulsory to work on Boxing Day for all staff.

Workers in retail and hospitality get a raw deal most days of the week.

Removing penalty rates is just gonna make a crappy job shittier.

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Dnarever

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Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut
Reply #146 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 1:30pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:47am:

Weekends and evenings are not necessarily "unsociable" to everyone, so that argument is absolute nonsense.

Yet in over 40 years of involvement in shift work I never found anyone who agreed with this assessment or anyone who would have voluntarily worked shifts if not for penalty rates.

That is nobody - zilch - a big zero - ducks eggs.

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stunspore Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5097 Gender:	Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut Reply #147 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 2:43pm https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/healthyliving/shiftwork Certainly doing shiftwork has negative effects on health and lifestyle. Should this attract penalty rates?
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139247 Gender:	Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut Reply #148 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 2:46pm stunspore wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 2:43pm: https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/healthyliving/shiftwork Certainly doing shiftwork has negative effects on health and lifestyle. Should this attract penalty rates? Shift workers get a shift allowance.
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut
Reply #149 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 9:38pm

Down the club tonight.... day off.... chatted up a favourite.. she said her hubby was working at Coles tonight..... saws him later when I went shopping for the necessities... prawns, ice cream, you know... he said he would be working on Saturday, Boxing Day... but because MONDAY was the allocated public holiday.. he would be paid normal rates for Saturday...

He blames the government with all their chicaneries.... so do I....

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