Australian Politics Forum - Liberals want penalty rates cut

Its time Gold Member Offline Boot libs out Posts: 25639 Gender:	Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut Reply #45 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 1:32pm How many times are the Libs going to flog this stalking horse , farrrk me.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut
Reply #46 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 1:34pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 1:20pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 10:00am:

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 8:56am:

It's not about "removing" penalty rates. It's about paying them where they are warranted ...

And they are warranted on Sundays.

Some places yes, some places no.

All places yes.

It's not about the workplace, it's about the worker.

Sundays are when the kids and most family members are at home.

It's when people have BBQs and parties.

It's when a lot of sporting events and church services are held.

These things are important to all workers, whether they work at the airport, a coffee shop, a restaurant, in a country town or in a CBD office open from 9 to 5.

It's about the workers being compensated for working unsocial hours, not about where they work.

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stunspore Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5097 Gender:	Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut Reply #47 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 1:43pm Office rents are far more in Australia than other countries. Controlling property prices would do wonders for businesses far more than raising a generation of working poor, devaluing the middle class and making the rich richer.
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Pantheon

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Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut
Reply #48 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 1:49pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 10:16am:

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 8:39am:

If you can't get individuals to work at un-standard hours then offer more pay to attract them ...

A lovely theory.

However, it doesn't work like that in the real world.

When employers can't get employees to work unsocial hours, they bully them, change their rosters, reduce their hours, and/or sack them.

That's the way it is, I'm afraid.

Have you ever tried to bully someone into doing your homework for you? it doesn't work.. employers bulling employees is as wide spread as unions bulling non union members into memberships.

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[b][center]Socialism had been tried on every continent on earth. In light of its results, it's time to question the motives of its advocates.

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Swagman

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Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut
Reply #49 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 1:49pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 10:16am:

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 8:39am:

If you can't get individuals to work at un-standard hours then offer more pay to attract them ...

A lovely theory.

However, it doesn't work like that in the real world.

In Perth during the mining boom, kitchen hands were earning around $50 an hour.

Besides, there is still the Fair Work Ombudsman if you think you've been dudded..

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 10:16am:

When employers can't get employees to work unsocial hours, they bully them, change their rosters, reduce their hours, and/or sack them.

That's the way it is, I'm afraid.

Which is pretty much what unions do to business to get them to pay over the market penalty rates.

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stunspore Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5097 Gender:	Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut Reply #50 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 1:52pm Pretty much they won't be getting $50 per hour at the moment. A reflection of your market forces.
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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut Reply #51 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:03pm greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 1:34pm: All places yes. You are arrogantly suggesting that everyone is the same, which is simply not true. Nobody is. Which is why socialism fails.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut
Reply #52 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:07pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:03pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 1:34pm:

All places yes.

You are arrogantly suggesting that everyone is the same, which is simply not true. Nobody is. Which is why socialism fails.

Sundays are when the kids and most family members are at home.

It's when people have BBQs and parties.

It's when a lot of sporting events and church services are held.

These things are important to all workers, whether they work at the airport, a coffee shop, a restaurant, in a country town or in a CBD office open from 9 to 5.

Penalty rates for Sundays should remain.

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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut Reply #53 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:07pm stunspore wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 1:52pm: Pretty much they won't be getting $50 per hour at the moment. A reflection of your market forces. Well looky here. Someone has learnt something about markets today Congrats.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut
Reply #54 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:09pm

Pantheon wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 1:49pm:

.. employers bulling employees is as wide spread as...

... it's always been.

If a worker doesn't want to work Sunday for normal rates, they'll be bullied and often sacked.

Sunday penalty rates should remain.

All workers should be compensated for working unsocial hours.

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Swagman

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Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut
Reply #55 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:13pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:07pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:03pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 1:34pm:

All places yes.

You are arrogantly suggesting that everyone is the same, which is simply not true. Nobody is. Which is why socialism fails.

Sundays are when the kids and most family members are at home.

It's when people have BBQs and parties.

It's when a lot of sporting events and church services are held.

These things are important to all workers, whether they work at the airport, a coffee shop, a restaurant, in a country town or in a CBD office open from 9 to 5.

Penalty rates for Sundays should remain.

Not everyone has kids and family members. Not everyone has BBQs and goes to church on Sunday. Not everyone likes sport.

And you comrades have the hide to call the Libs 'conservatives'? Roll Eyes

It's a 24/7 world these days. Shape up, or ship out. That's the message for businesses. IR policy has to bend and follow suit with it otherwise it will just mean less business and more unemployment.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut
Reply #56 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:16pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:13pm:

It's a 24/7 world these days.

Really?

Call the Productivity Commission on a Sunday and see how well you go.

Call your local politician's office at 11pm on a Saturday and tell me how you go.

Penalty rates compensate workers for working unsocial hours, and they should remain exactly as they are.

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bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut Reply #57 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:23pm That's a weak argument greg. The Productivity Commission isn't a 24/7 industry but, in some areas, hospitality & accommodation & transport etc are. If you choose those areas of employment these days you expect to work shift hours.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut
Reply #58 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:28pm

bogarde73 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:23pm:

The Productivity Commission isn't a 24/7 industry but, in some areas, hospitality & accommodation & transport etc are.
If you choose those areas of employment these days you expect to work shift hours.

Absolutely.

And you expect to be paid penalty rates for working unsocial hours.

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Redmond Neck

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Re: Liberals want penalty rates cut
Reply #59 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:28pm

Redmond Neck wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 1:25pm:

So Swaggie you as a manager of "The Swagmans Retreat Cafe and Credit Agency" has eight staff on Sunday.

Suddenly wages go down due to penalty changes.

You have sufficient staff already to do the job.

As a responsible manager where would you put the extra profits?

Too embarrassed to answer eh Swaggie! Grin

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