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reds under the bed (Read 7579 times)
freediver
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reds under the bed
Dec 25th, 2015 at 8:58am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19th, 2015 at 12:21pm:
I still identify as a socialist.


Kiron22 wrote on Dec 19th, 2015 at 3:23pm:
Oh wow, so clever. I love how you think I'm ashamed of being a Socialist.


Karnal wrote on Dec 7th, 2015 at 11:18am:
Communism is not an alternative many want, but Soviet economics was never communism, merely state capitalism. We live in a dynasty of capitalism, with varying models. We cannot not live in capitalism - it's the way the human world has been structured since the Dutch East Indies Company sold the first company shares.

But we need to make capitalism work for us, not Bill Gates, not Richard Branson and not Thommy Suharto.


Neither Gandalf nor Karnal would answer any more questions on this in the other threads.

Gandalf and Kiron - what sort of socialist are you? How far do you take the ideology?

Karnal, if not a socialist, what do you identify as? What do you mean by making capitalism work for us rather than rich people?
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Bobby.
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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #1 - Dec 25th, 2015 at 9:10am
 
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/oct/13/half-world-wealth-in-hands-populati...



Half of world's wealth now in hands of 1% of population

report Inequality growing globally and in the UK, which has third most ‘ultra-high net worth individuals’, household wealth study finds.

Global inequality is growing, with half the world’s wealth now in the hands of just 1% of the population, according to a new report.

The middle classes have been squeezed at the expense of the very rich, according to research by Credit Suisse, which also finds that for the first time, there are more individuals in the middle classes in China – 109m – than the 92m in the US.

Tidjane Thiam, the chief executive of Credit Suisse, said: “Middle class wealth has grown at a slower pace than wealth at the top end. This has reversed the pre-crisis trend which saw the share of middle-class wealth remaining fairly stable over time.”

The report shows that a person needs only $3,210 (£2,100) to be in the wealthiest 50% of world citizens. About $68,800 secures a place in the top 10%, while the top 1% have more than $759,900. The report defines wealth as the value of assets including property and stock market investments, but excludes debt.

About 3.4 bn people – just over 70% of the global adult population – have wealth of less than $10,000. A further 1bn – a fifth of the world’s population – are in the $10,000-$100,000 range.

Each of the remaining 383m adults – 8% of the population – has wealth of more than $100,000. This number includes about 34m US dollar millionaires. About 123,800 individuals of these have more than $50m, and nearly 45,000 have more than $100m. The UK has the third-highest number of these “ultra-high net worth” individuals.
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Redmond Neck
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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #2 - Dec 25th, 2015 at 9:14am
 
Thats how it should be Bobbie, just ask cods, Maria, Swaggie and any of the other RWNJ goofballs!
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BAN ALL THESE ABO SITES RECOGNITIONS.

ALL AUSTRALIA IS FOR ALL AUSTRALIANS!
 
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Bobby.
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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #3 - Dec 25th, 2015 at 9:28am
 
Redmond Neck wrote on Dec 25th, 2015 at 9:14am:
Thats how it should be Bobbie, just ask cods, Maria, Swaggie and any of the other RWNJ goofballs!



Yes - the rich think the world should be mostly for their benefit only.
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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #4 - Dec 25th, 2015 at 11:08am
 
Bobby. wrote on Dec 25th, 2015 at 9:28am:
Redmond Neck wrote on Dec 25th, 2015 at 9:14am:
Thats how it should be Bobbie, just ask cods, Maria, Swaggie and any of the other RWNJ goofballs!



Yes - the rich think the world should be mostly for their benefit only.


Stupidest statement on this thread so far.

Only somebody who hates success, and is obviously unsuccessful, would say that........tall poppy syndrome.....
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polite_gandalf
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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #5 - Dec 25th, 2015 at 3:10pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 25th, 2015 at 8:58am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 19th, 2015 at 12:21pm:
I still identify as a socialist.


Kiron22 wrote on Dec 19th, 2015 at 3:23pm:
Oh wow, so clever. I love how you think I'm ashamed of being a Socialist.


Karnal wrote on Dec 7th, 2015 at 11:18am:
Communism is not an alternative many want, but Soviet economics was never communism, merely state capitalism. We live in a dynasty of capitalism, with varying models. We cannot not live in capitalism - it's the way the human world has been structured since the Dutch East Indies Company sold the first company shares.

But we need to make capitalism work for us, not Bill Gates, not Richard Branson and not Thommy Suharto.


Neither Gandalf nor Karnal would answer any more questions on this in the other threads.

Gandalf and Kiron - what sort of socialist are you? How far do you take the ideology?

Karnal, if not a socialist, what do you identify as? What do you mean by making capitalism work for us rather than rich people?


Asking me "how far do you take the socialism thing" wasn't particularly useful. What answer did you expect - a score out of 10?

I believe in redistributing wealth in society, and I believe government has a duty to take an active part in that. But I also believe in freedoms and democracy. And yes, there's probably a lot of clashes there. To be honest I haven't formulated a particularly coherent position on it. It would probably be more useful to clarify my position on an issue by issue basis The most helpful thing I can say broadly is that I find very little, if anything, I disagree with with the Greens.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #6 - Dec 25th, 2015 at 4:30pm
 
Should everyone have an equal share of the wealth?
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Redmond Neck
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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #7 - Dec 25th, 2015 at 4:59pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 25th, 2015 at 4:30pm:
Should everyone have an equal share of the wealth?


No

But all should have an equal share of political ears.

Bring on (CIR) Citizen Initiated Referendums in Australia
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BAN ALL THESE ABO SITES RECOGNITIONS.

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Bobby.
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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #8 - Dec 25th, 2015 at 5:05pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 25th, 2015 at 4:30pm:
Should everyone have an equal share of the wealth?



Half of world's wealth now in hands of 1% of population -

that's skewed too far in my opinion.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #9 - Dec 26th, 2015 at 11:10am
 
freediver wrote on Dec 25th, 2015 at 4:30pm:
Should everyone have an equal share of the wealth?


no. That would amount to seizing all private assets and property, make them state owned and distributing it to everyone equally. Thats communism.

Most socialists, including myself, understand the need for free enterprise and so forth - to allow for people to benefit and prosper through entrepreneurship. But there is also a social duty incumbent upon all individuals to contribute towards state-owned social services. And those who are the most well off should contribute the most (eg progressive tax system)

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #10 - Dec 26th, 2015 at 4:06pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 25th, 2015 at 4:30pm:
Should everyone have an equal share of the wealth?


Of course - as long as everyone makes an equal contribution to generating it.

This is not just socialism, it’s the objective of all economic theories.
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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #11 - Dec 26th, 2015 at 5:06pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Dec 25th, 2015 at 9:28am:

.....the rich think the world should be mostly for their benefit only.




Whereas the lazy and profligate, believe that what the rich have, should at every turn, be transferred into their hands [for consuming].


Dictionary;
profligate = = recklessly extravagant or wasteful.       licentious; dissolute.




My own opinion is that;

Taking the property or wealth, that was created by another person, without their consent and full agreement, is still a crime.

It is called stealing.

And even when a government [of men] makes the claim that such [actual] theft is being done in a noble cause, such an act, is still stealing     [...i.e. confiscating other peoples property/wealth].


IMO, those who have lawfully created wealth [for themselves] and have the means [the excess] to do so, should be encouraged to help their fellow men,         ....but imo, it should remain the firm right [in law], of the person who created that wealth, to decide how and when he/she chooses to disperse that wealth [if they so choose to do].




.




Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
- Winston Churchill


"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
- Margaret Thatcher



If you want more of something, subsidize it; if you want less of something, tax it.
- Ronald Reagan



'The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a government program.'
- Ronald Reagan



'The taxpayer:
That's someone who works
For the federal government
But doesn't have to take the
Civil service examination.'
- Ronald Reagan



'Government is like a baby:
An alimentary canal with a
Big appetite at one end and
No sense of responsibility
At the other'
- Ronald Reagan



"Socialism only works
In two places:
Heaven where they don't
Need it and hell where they already have it."
-Ronald Reagan



.



Not related to the subject matter, but a damn fine quote!         Smiley

--------- >

'Here's my strategy on
The Cold War:
We win, they lose.'
- Ronald Reagan


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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freediver
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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #12 - Dec 27th, 2015 at 8:44am
 
Quote:
Most socialists, including myself, understand the need for free enterprise and so forth - to allow for people to benefit and prosper through entrepreneurship. But there is also a social duty incumbent upon all individuals to contribute towards state-owned social services. And those who are the most well off should contribute the most (eg progressive tax system)


So you are more of a status quo supporter than an actual socialist?

Quote:
Of course - as long as everyone makes an equal contribution to generating it.
This is not just socialism, it’s the objective of all economic theories.


I always thought the objective was to capture the reality of economics. Where did you get this from?
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Karnal
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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #13 - Dec 27th, 2015 at 10:51am
 
Economics is about spreading the greatest good to the greatest number, FD. It tries to capture economic realities to do that.
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freediver
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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #14 - Dec 27th, 2015 at 3:32pm
 
You can use it for whatever you want Karnal. Not even the socialists demand that it's goal is an equal contribution from everyone and an equal share of the wealth for everyone.
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