Australian Politics Forum - reds under the bed

Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 59099 Here Gender:	Re: reds under the bed Reply #45 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 8:38pm the good ole boys wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 5:20pm: I feel less dirty being stolen from by greedy capitalists than benevolent socialists. Yes it is always more comfortable to give a stack of money to people who don't need it. Greed is good - hey.
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Dnarever

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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #46 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 8:41pm

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 8:17pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 4:41pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 3:01pm:

Quote:

The first part on my comment was my interpretation on what Gandalf had said the middle bit was my comment on your status quo statement and the third was my opinion on where we are going - further from
a reasonable balance.

Are we supposed to already know what you consider to be a reasonable balance and what direction you think we are going in?

The reason I explained it.

Do you believe that privatising everything that isn't nailed down to be the right way to go.

I am not asking for the reason you hold the views you do. I am asking what those views are. It's a pretty simple question.

I think it makes sense for the government to maintain ownership, or at least control, of industries that are naturally stable monopolies. Roads are a good example. I oppose tolls and think we should use fuel taxes instead. But as far as it concerns current issues, I am mostly in favour of privatisation.

I don't believe that essential services can be trusted to private operators.

Gas, Power, telecoms, hospitals etc.

There has been no privatisation success story for the community, failure after failure.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49371 At my desk.	Re: reds under the bed Reply #47 - Jan 2^nd, 2016 at 2:08pm How would you judge success or failure? How do you judge what is essential?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #48 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 12:55pm

freediver wrote on Dec 27^th, 2015 at 8:44am:

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Most socialists, including myself, understand the need for free enterprise and so forth - to allow for people to benefit and prosper through entrepreneurship. But there is also a social duty incumbent upon all individuals to contribute towards state-owned social services. And those who are the most well off should contribute the most (eg progressive tax system)

So you are more of a status quo supporter than an actual socialist?

Thats a pretty ridiculous way to interpret my comments FD - I gave no specifics vis-a-vis the current system we have. In any case, whether what I advocate is or isn't the status quo is neither here nor there - I gave you the basics of my socialist beliefs. And like I said before, its more meaningful to explain things on a case by case basis - so if you hvae any question on specific issues, fire away. But one thing I can think of is a mining tax - we shouldn't have abolished it.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: reds under the bed Reply #49 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 1:00pm freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 8:06am: Did you know that Gandalf blames capitalism for the British Empire's fall from power? Wow what an outrageous thing to think. By the way, do you still think there was no British Empire during WWII - and that it had dissolved 100 years prior?
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freediver

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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #50 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 3:38pm

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Thats a pretty ridiculous way to interpret my comments FD - I gave no specifics vis-a-vis the current system we have.

Why not?

Quote:

In any case, whether what I advocate is or isn't the status quo is neither here nor there - I gave you the basics of my socialist beliefs.

They appear to exclude socialism. Do you think that is odd? Do you think Australia is socialist?

Quote:

And like I said before, its more meaningful to explain things on a case by case basis - so if you hvae any question on specific issues, fire away. But one thing I can think of is a mining tax - we shouldn't have abolished it.

So you are more in favour of the status quo from a few years ago? What about current income tax arrangements? Should they be more or less progressive?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #51 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 5:35pm

freediver wrote on Jan 6^th, 2016 at 3:38pm:

So you are more in favour of the status quo from a few years ago?

How many years ago? What are you talking about?

freediver wrote on Jan 6^th, 2016 at 3:38pm:

What about current income tax arrangements? Should they be more or less progressive?

Compare it to some European countries, our top tax bracket starts at much higher income. The trade-off is much more generous services like health and education. So I would support lowering the threshold for the top tax bracket if it can provide better health care and education etc.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49371 At my desk.	Re: reds under the bed Reply #52 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 5:42pm Would you take it any further than those European countries?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: reds under the bed Reply #53 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 6:05pm depends. Thats an absurdly overgeneralised thing to ask.
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the good ole boys Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 658 Gender:	Re: reds under the bed Reply #54 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 8:22pm What about involuntary appropriation of capital from the very wealthy? The mining tax is only one step behind.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49371 At my desk.	Re: reds under the bed Reply #55 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 8:20am What does it depend on Gandalf?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: reds under the bed Reply #56 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 11:58am Constructive conversations with FD. Are you fumbling around like this because for once you can't troll me about Islam - and you feel completely lost? Maybe you can work in the slaughter of 800 jews somehow - I'm sure you can manage it. At least it wouldn't look any more idiotic than your efforts thus far.
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freediver

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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #57 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 1:48pm

You have been attacking capitalism and liberal democracy as being propped up by exploitation for a few years now. At first I thought it was just you feeling compelled to criticise anything not inspired by Islam, but the socialism thing explains it a bit better.

You claim to be a socialist, but leave yourself a broad spectrum of positions between the status quo and true socialism, while criticising me for being both too specific and too vague. I would expect someone to put slightly more thought into it before proclaiming themselves a socialist.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: reds under the bed Reply #58 - Jan 8^th, 2016 at 7:35pm I've never accused you of being too specific here FD.
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Dnarever

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Re: reds under the bed
Reply #59 - Jan 9^th, 2016 at 11:15am

freediver wrote on Jan 7^th, 2016 at 1:48pm:

You have been attacking capitalism and liberal democracy as being propped up by exploitation for a few years now. At first I thought it was just you feeling compelled to criticise anything not inspired by Islam, but the socialism thing explains it a bit better.

You claim to be a socialist, but leave yourself a broad spectrum of positions between the status quo and true socialism, while criticising me for being both too specific and too vague. I would expect someone to put slightly more thought into it before proclaiming themselves a socialist.

capitalism and liberal democracy are being propped up by exploitation

I don't think I have seen this problem put so well before but it is certainly a fact that the western manner of implementing or allowing capitalism is highly dependant on also allowing exploitation.

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