Australian Politics Forum - Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform

cods

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #15 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 12:21pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:02am:

Labor should look at what Turnbull comes up with before deciding - some of the recommendations look ok but some don't.

can you tell us what your disagree with... I havent read any of them so far..

it wont make the slightest difference anyway... its far to well entrenched.. and as we know the Unions are afraid of no one...

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lee

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #16 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 12:26pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 12:19pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 7:48am:

macman wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 7:17am:

I would say Mr Shorten would be very happy to fight an election campaign on WORKCHOICES because that is what this pack of rsoles are trying to bring back! Nothing has changed with this lot except instead of a nasty dickêd we now have a waffling dickêd. BRING IT ON!

There's been zero talk of anything remotely like WorkChoices. But hey, don't let the truth get in the way of a lie, will you?

yeah right ... and you probably believe that tooÂ Grin

Yet I don't see a reference to support your contention.

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lee

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #17 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 12:34pm

And then of course there is this -

'Bob Hawke has called on the Labor Party and the ACTU to consider cutting ties with the Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union, it's been reported.

Paul Keating, meanwhile, has warned that trade union influence inside the party must be reduced.

The two former Labor prime ministers have told The Australian newspaper they are appalled by the evidence of systemic union corruption.

"The unions need to clean up their act and get their house in order ... It just is appalling. I mean, I wouldnt tolerate it," Mr Hawke said.

Asked if the CFMEU should still be affiliated to the ACTU and Labor, Mr Hawke, who was ACTU president throughout the 1970s, said: "Well, I would be very happy for them not to be at this stage."

Mr Keating said there should be a rethink of party-union connections.

"The preponderance of trade union weight in the Labor Party's councils is now too large, given organised labour's influence in the current and contemporary labour market," he said.'

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2016/01/01/hawke-and-keating-promote-...

But BS (Bill Shorten) needs them.

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cods

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #18 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 3:14pm

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 12:34pm:

And then of course there is this -

'Bob Hawke has called on the Labor Party and the ACTU to consider cutting ties with the Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union, it's been reported.

Paul Keating, meanwhile, has warned that trade union influence inside the party must be reduced.

The two former Labor prime ministers have told The Australian newspaper they are appalled by the evidence of systemic union corruption.

"The unions need to clean up their act and get their house in order ... It just is appalling. I mean, I wouldnt tolerate it," Mr Hawke said.

Asked if the CFMEU should still be affiliated to the ACTU and Labor, Mr Hawke, who was ACTU president throughout the 1970s, said: "Well, I would be very happy for them not to be at this stage."

Mr Keating said there should be a rethink of party-union connections.

"The preponderance of trade union weight in the Labor Party's councils is now too large, given organised labour's influence in the current and contemporary labour market," he said.'

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2016/01/01/hawke-and-keating-promote-...

But BS (Bill Shorten) needs them.

its extremely sad... for the rusted on....

thankfully he will never be PM.. thats my prediction for 2016...

anyone agree with that????..

or are the rusted on laughing their heads off..

Grin

I think its about the only laugh they will get this year...... Wink

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John Smith

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #19 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 3:17pm

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 12:26pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 12:19pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 7:48am:

macman wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 7:17am:

I would say Mr Shorten would be very happy to fight an election campaign on WORKCHOICES because that is what this pack of rsoles are trying to bring back! Nothing has changed with this lot except instead of a nasty dickêd we now have a waffling dickêd. BRING IT ON!

There's been zero talk of anything remotely like WorkChoices. But hey, don't let the truth get in the way of a lie, will you?

yeah right ... and you probably believe that tooÂ Grin

Yet I don't see a reference to support your contention.

you can start with all the talk of cutting penalty rates, the return of the ACCC and eroding unions powers in the workplace. ...

oh wait, you thought that if they didn't name their policy 'workcover' no one would notice?

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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 59447 Here Gender:	Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform Reply #20 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 4:01pm the good ole boys wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 12:17pm: I'm going to cry "witch hunt" the next time i get a speeding fine. Won't matter they will still suspend your broom license.
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macman

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #21 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 4:20pm

While we are having these union reforms to weed out union corruption,what little exists,I am sure malcolm would be happy to look at the introduction of a federal ICAC to sort out the political rorts carried out by the libs as was exposed by the NSW ICAC. Would be very interesting to see a proper investigation of political donations and politicians travel allowances to see just what these arseholes on both sides get away with.

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lee

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #22 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 4:45pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 3:17pm:

you can start with all the talk of cutting penalty rates,

isn't that from the Productivity Commission? Not the Libs. just askin.

'Whatever the economics, politically, this issue is explosive, which is why Malcolm Turnbull will tread cautiously. The government desperately wants to circumvent another Labor-ACTU election campaign of the anti-Work Choices ilk, and is stressing no change for nurses, teachers and emergency service workers. Further, it says any future decision on hospitality and retail Sunday rates will be taken by the independent Fair Work Commission - i.e. at arm's length from the government.'

On the minus side, these advocates have no direct skin in the game and thus can be said to have no idea what they're talking about when contemplating slashing someone's pay. This is the guts of the reality-for-people-at-the-bottom-of-the-income-scale justification. It is particularly compelling for those who rely on Sunday penalties to make ends meet.

The first argument assumes that if more cafes are open on a Sunday, then more coffee and croissants will be sold. Maybe that's true but it seems an optimistic view of the elasticity of cafe demand. '

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/the-tricky-politics-of-...

I tend to agree that there won't be more lattes, croissants sold with a drop in penalty rates. That it is not ideal to drop rates for the poorest in the community.

Another Fairfax publication.

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« Last Edit: Jan 1^st, 2016 at 4:52pm by lee »

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Dnarever

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #23 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 5:28pm

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 4:45pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 3:17pm:

you can start with all the talk of cutting penalty rates,

isn't that from the Productivity Commission? Not the Libs. just askin.

'Whatever the economics, politically, this issue is explosive, which is why Malcolm Turnbull will tread cautiously. The government desperately wants to circumvent another Labor-ACTU election campaign of the anti-Work Choices ilk, and is stressing no change for nurses, teachers and emergency service workers. Further, it says any future decision on hospitality and retail Sunday rates will be taken by the independent Fair Work Commission - i.e. at arm's length from the government.'

On the minus side, these advocates have no direct skin in the game and thus can be said to have no idea what they're talking about when contemplating slashing someone's pay. This is the guts of the reality-for-people-at-the-bottom-of-the-income-scale justification. It is particularly compelling for those who rely on Sunday penalties to make ends meet.

The first argument assumes that if more cafes are open on a Sunday, then more coffee and croissants will be sold. Maybe that's true but it seems an optimistic view of the elasticity of cafe demand. '

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/the-tricky-politics-of-...

I tend to agree that there won't be more lattes, croissants sold with a drop in penalty rates. That it is not ideal to drop rates for the poorest in the community.

Another Fairfax publication.

The Libs asked for the productivity commission to do the investigation and simultaneously told the business community to fight hard for what it wanted.

There was never any justifiable reason for penalty rates to have been included in the process but it was due to the pressure produced as a result of the Liberals actions.

The Liberals set up the framework and then set up the driving agenda while trying to appear to be a disinterested party. Almost the same as the GST process, they are behind it but want a big dose of plausible deniability.

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lee

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #24 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 6:03pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 5:28pm:

The Libs asked for the productivity commission to do the investigation and simultaneously told the business community to fight hard for what it wanted.

Did they ask the Productivity to come to their (apparently, according to you) preferred conclusion? Are you further saying that the Australian Government coerced an independent body?

You should take your findings including proof to the AFP.

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cods

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #25 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 6:15pm

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 6:03pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 5:28pm:

The Libs asked for the productivity commission to do the investigation and simultaneously told the business community to fight hard for what it wanted.

Did they ask the Productivity to come to their (apparently, according to you) preferred conclusion? Are you further saying that the Australian Government coerced an independent body?

You should take your findings including proof to the AFP.

they dont need Proof to come to their conclusions lee...

their hatred carries them forth..

I was hoping dna would have come along with his list of No Nos by now.. Roll Eyes

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Bam

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #26 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 6:28pm

cods wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:13am:

HILARIOUS>. I thin k its funny hes popped his little head up at long last...

havent seen him since he broke the law driving using a phone.... Roll Eyes

..

Did you miss this, cods?

Quote:

Bill Shorten takes break from leave

Shorten has been away from the media because he is ON LEAVE. Many of our politicians take a break at this time of the year (but not all at once, of course). For that reason, I consider it to be poor form to criticise any of our politicians for being absent at this time of the year (between Christmas and Australia Day) when many people are on leave. Politicians need a break too.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #27 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 6:48pm

cods wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 12:21pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:02am:

Labor should look at what Turnbull comes up with before deciding - some of the recommendations look ok but some don't.

can you tell us what your disagree with... I havent read any of them so far..

How about this one?

Quote:

Recommendation 60
For the purpose of seeking to combat the culture of disregard for the law within the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union, consideration be given to the enactment of special legislation disqualifying those officers of the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union that Parliament considers are not fit and proper persons from holding office in any registered organisation or branch for a specified period.

Parliament passing specific legislation against particular individuals? That would be the greatest overreach of parliamentary power against specific people since Menzies tried to ban the Communist Party (this attempt failed because it was unconstitutional). Once someone is named in this way, it's not possible to remove one's name except by hoping the legislation is repealed. That's a gross breach of the separation of powers. Such power against individuals belongs to the courts, not the Parliament.

If we're going to have any legislation like this, it should be framed in general terms. For example, the legislation could specify that anyone with criminal convictions could not be a senior officer in a union, a director of a company, etc. As long as the legislation was even-handed - the same rules applied to unions, companies, churches, political parties or any other organisation - it would be reasonable and stand constitutional scrutiny.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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John Smith

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #28 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 6:54pm

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 4:45pm:

isn't that from the Productivity Commission? Not the Libs. just askin.

it's not limited to the productivity commission

In March, Mr Hawke was one of a group of Liberal MPs, including fellow western Sydney backbencher Craig Laundy and Victorian MP Dan Tehan, who called for a debate on cutting penalty rates.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-04/backbencher-calls-for-action-on-youth-unem...

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75367 Gender:	Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform Reply #29 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 6:56pm cods wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 6:15pm: they dont need Proof to come to their conclusions lee... their hatred carries them forth.. says the person who still makes dumb claims against Gillard and Shorten despite an RC that cleared them of any wrongdoing
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