Australian Politics Forum - Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #30 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 7:04pm

Or these?

Quote:

Recommendation 69
A new provision be inserted into Fair Work Act 2009 (Cth) which requires permit holders to complete approved right of entry training annually in relation to the rights and responsibilities of permit holder. This recommendation is reflected in the model legislative provisions in Appendix 1 to Volume 5 of the Report.

Quote:

Recommendation 71
Section 510 of the Fair Work Act 2009 (Cth) be amended so that it requires a right of entry permit to be suspended or revoked by the Fair Work Commission if:
(a)
an official has failed to complete approved training; or
(b)
a new permit qualification matter has arisen which means the official is no longer a fit and proper person.

Training once may be reasonable, but annual training? That's a bloody joke. That's more frequent than first-aid refresher courses that are required every two years because people's lives could be at risk. Annual training is like killing a spider with a rocket launcher. It's massive overkill. It is completely unnecessary and adds unreasonable costs. Why is annual training being considered? For one reason only - to put as many barriers to unions doing their work as the government think they can get away with.

It's simply over-regulation.

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lee

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #31 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 7:43pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 6:54pm:

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 4:45pm:

isn't that from the Productivity Commission? Not the Libs. just askin.

it's not limited to the productivity commission

In March, Mr Hawke was one of a group of Liberal MPs, including fellow western Sydney backbencher Craig Laundy and Victorian MP Dan Tehan, who called for a debate on cutting penalty rates.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-04/backbencher-calls-for-action-on-youth-unem...

So backbenchers make Liberal Party policy. Who knew?

Like Labor backbenchers make Labor Party policy?

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John Smith

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #32 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 8:01pm

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 7:43pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 6:54pm:

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 4:45pm:

isn't that from the Productivity Commission? Not the Libs. just askin.

it's not limited to the productivity commission

In March, Mr Hawke was one of a group of Liberal MPs, including fellow western Sydney backbencher Craig Laundy and Victorian MP Dan Tehan, who called for a debate on cutting penalty rates.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-04/backbencher-calls-for-action-on-youth-unem...

So backbenchers make Liberal Party policy. Who knew?

Like Labor backbenchers make Labor Party policy?

no ones made any policy .... YET.

the comment you seemed to object to was

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 3:17pm:

you can start with all the talk of cutting penalty rates

. .. now you're arguing that they are only talking? Cheesy

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Dnarever

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #33 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 8:42pm

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 6:03pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 5:28pm:

The Libs asked for the productivity commission to do the investigation and simultaneously told the business community to fight hard for what it wanted.

Did they ask the Productivity to come to their (apparently, according to you) preferred conclusion? Are you further saying that the Australian Government coerced an independent body?

You should take your findings including proof to the AFP.

You must be a conservative supporter , you have poor comprehension skills.

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lee

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #34 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 8:46pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 8:42pm:

You must be a conservative supporter , you have poor comprehension skills.

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 4:45pm:

I tend to agree that there won't be more lattes, croissants sold with a drop in penalty rates. That it is not ideal to drop rates for the poorest in the community.

Hmm, a conservative supporter who believes in the little man? Wouldn't you consider that a contradiction?

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 18101 Gender:	Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform Reply #35 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 8:48pm John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 8:01pm: no ones made any policy .... YET. John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 8:01pm: . now you're arguing that they are only talking? And you seem to agree that there is no policy. Strange eh?
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John Smith

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #36 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:02pm

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 8:48pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 8:01pm:

no ones made any policy .... YET.

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 8:01pm:

. now you're arguing that they are only talking?

And you seem to agree that there is no policy. Strange eh?

that's funny, I don't recall ever saying that there was .... can you show me where I made such a claim so that I can withdraw it?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Its time

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #37 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:12pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 6:56pm:

cods wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 6:15pm:

they dont need Proof to come to their conclusions lee...

their hatred carries them forth..

says the person who still makes dumb claims against Gillard and Shorten despite an RC that cleared them of any wrongdoing

Cheesy

Flogging a dead horse with that one , if it exists in ones mind it exists , crazzzzzzzzzy Cheesy

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #38 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:27pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 7:48am:

macman wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 7:17am:

I would say Mr Shorten would be very happy to fight an election campaign on WORKCHOICES because that is what this pack of rsoles are trying to bring back! Nothing has changed with this lot except instead of a nasty dick%ead we now have a waffling dick%ead. BRING IT ON!

There's been zero talk of anything remotely like WorkChoices. But hey, don't let the truth get in the way of a lie, will you?

So -0 we just don't name the beast... but then go ahead and pursue it?

Shows how little a Fascist like Turnbull is from a Fascist like Abbott... both serve their party and its policy thrusts....

Anyone want to argue again about who actually elects the PM?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #39 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:31pm

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 7:43pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 6:54pm:

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 4:45pm:

isn't that from the Productivity Commission? Not the Libs. just askin.

it's not limited to the productivity commission

In March, Mr Hawke was one of a group of Liberal MPs, including fellow western Sydney backbencher Craig Laundy and Victorian MP Dan Tehan, who called for a debate on cutting penalty rates.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-04/backbencher-calls-for-action-on-youth-unem...

So backbenchers make Liberal Party policy. Who knew?

Like Labor backbenchers make Labor Party policy?

So..... (long meaningful pause)........ if the body entire of the elected party in government doesn't make policy........................................... who does?

Thank you for opening this question to the general public for scrutiny...

Oh - I know.... they only get a pre-selection BECAUSE they already adhere to the Party policy line!! As handed down by the faceless men (and the odd woman) who actually determine which way things will go.... very few, if any, of whom are elected.

Again we must thank you for raising this issue to the public consciousness......

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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lee

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #40 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:33pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:02pm:

that's funny, I don't recall ever saying that there was .... can you show me where I made such a claim so that I can withdraw it?

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 8:48pm:

And you seem to agree that there is no policy. Strange eh?

We agree there is no policy. Comprende?

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lee

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #41 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:39pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:31pm:

So backbenchers make Liberal Party policy. Who knew?

Like Labor backbenchers make Labor Party policy?

So..... (long meaningful pause)........ if the body entire of the elected party in government doesn't make policy........................................... who does?

So sad to see that someone doesn't know the difference between backbenchers and the party room. Or perhaps backbenchers and Caucus? Depending on the flavour of Government.

You see ...Backbenchers (long meaningful pause) ... are not the body of the entire elected party in government. They are a subset. A portion.

So to answer your question - the party room or Caucus make policy - not backbenchers on their lonesome.

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John Smith

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #42 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:43pm

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:39pm:

So sad to see that someone doesn't know the difference between backbenchers and the party room. Or perhaps backbenchers and Caucus? Depending on the flavour of Government.

You see ...Backbenchers (long meaningful pause) ... are not the body of the entire elected party in government. They are a subset. A portion.

So to answer your question - the party room or Caucus make policy - not backbenchers on their lonesome.

it's a common tactic for the party room or caucus to use a back bencher to make public an idea so that they can see the publics reaction prior to doing anything. If you think one back bencher in the liberal party is the only person pushing for this, you're deluded.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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lee

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #43 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:50pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:43pm:

it's a common tactic for the party room or caucus to use a back bencher to make public an idea so that they can see the publics reaction prior to doing anything. If you think one back bencher in the liberal party is the only person pushing for this, you're deluded.

No argument there. Now can you link yours? Backbencher to party room or Caucus?

Edit: I see on another thread Coalition voters are against dropping penalty rates. Based on what has been said so far; it is dead in the water. If in fact backbenchers were pushing the change for the party room to get a feel of community thoughts

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #44 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:13pm

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:39pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:31pm:

So backbenchers make Liberal Party policy. Who knew?

Like Labor backbenchers make Labor Party policy?

So..... (long meaningful pause)........ if the body entire of the elected party in government doesn't make policy........................................... who does?

So sad to see that someone doesn't know the difference between backbenchers and the party room. Or perhaps backbenchers and Caucus? Depending on the flavour of Government.

You see ...Backbenchers (long meaningful pause) ... are not the body of the entire elected party in government. They are a subset. A portion.

So to answer your question - the party room or Caucus make policy - not backbenchers on their lonesome.

You miss my point... the backbenchers form a part of the elected body of the Party - in theory their vote should go towards determining policy. In fact, the opposite is true - they are constrained to vote along Party lines.. and the policies they vote on are not the result of the elected body of the Party, but are policy directions formulated by a combination of many bodies, all controlled by a relative few, the majority of whom are unelected.

Same occurs with Labor, thus making of our elected representatives just mouthpieces for a largely unelected group's policies, and thus giving the lie to democracy as the ruling issue here (and elsewhere).

Now come back with the content of 'caucus'........... at least 60% unelected...... on both 'sides'.

Do try not to obfuscate and don't do a Longy and attack the messenger of truth instead of discussing the issues.

Thhe highlighted section is not my comment - it was what I responded to. Kinda give a different slant, neh?

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« Last Edit: Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:18pm by Grappler Deep State Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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