Australian Politics Forum - Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform

Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #45 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:16pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:31pm:

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 7:43pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 6:54pm:

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 4:45pm:

isn't that from the Productivity Commission? Not the Libs. just askin.

it's not limited to the productivity commission

In March, Mr Hawke was one of a group of Liberal MPs, including fellow western Sydney backbencher Craig Laundy and Victorian MP Dan Tehan, who called for a debate on cutting penalty rates.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-04/backbencher-calls-for-action-on-youth-unem...

So backbenchers make Liberal Party policy. Who knew?

Like Labor backbenchers make Labor Party policy?

So..... (long meaningful pause)........ if the body entire of the elected party in government doesn't make policy........................................... who does?

Thank you for opening this question to the general public for scrutiny...

Oh - I know.... they only get a pre-selection BECAUSE they already adhere to the Party policy line!! As handed down by the faceless men (and the odd woman) who actually determine which way things will go.... very few, if any, of whom are elected.

Again we must thank you for raising this issue to the public consciousness......

Your quote includes in my comment things not said by me but responded to by me...... I would prefer not to think that was a deliberate action to give a false impression of what I said.....here is the correct quoting for both...

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 18101 Gender:	Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform Reply #46 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:16pm Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:13pm: the backbenchers form a part of the elected body of the Party Exactly. They don't formulate policy.
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #47 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:20pm

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:16pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:13pm:

the backbenchers form a part of the elected body of the Party

Exactly. They don't formulate policy.

So .. we return to my original question...... Who Does (Qui Bono?)? And what basis do they have to determine national policy in a democracy?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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John Smith

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #48 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:23pm

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:43pm:

it's a common tactic for the party room or caucus to use a back bencher to make public an idea so that they can see the publics reaction prior to doing anything. If you think one back bencher in the liberal party is the only person pushing for this, you're deluded.

No argument there. Now can you link yours? Backbencher to party room or Caucus?

Edit: I see on another thread Coalition voters are against dropping penalty rates. Based on what has been said so far; it is dead in the water. If in fact backbenchers were pushing the change for the party room to get a feel of community thoughts

I've already provided a link to a back bencher calling for cuts to penalty rates. Not sure what you are asking for now.

here, you want more ... this only took me 2 minutes to find. I'm sure there are more if you want to search some more

A Government backbencher, ACT Senator Zed Seselja says the Coalition should take a workplace relations policy to the next election which cuts Sunday penalty rates for workers in the hospitality, retail and entertainment sectors.

Former workplace relations minister Eric Abetz says the Fair Work Commission cannot ignore calls to reduce Sunday penalty rates, if as expected the Productivity Commission recommends the move on Monday.

I think it's to early yet to call it dead in the water ... the report has only recently come out. I'll suspect they'll put it on the backburner for now and revive it after the election

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lee

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #49 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:34pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:23pm:

I've already provided a link to a back bencher calling for cuts to penalty rates. Not sure what you are asking for now.

here, you want more ... this only took me 2 minutes to find. I'm sure there are more if you want to search some more

A Government backbencher, ACT Senator Zed Seselja says the Coalition should take a workplace relations policy to the next election which cuts Sunday penalty rates for workers in the hospitality, retail and entertainment sectors.

Former workplace relations minister Eric Abetz says the Fair Work Commission cannot ignore calls to reduce Sunday penalty rates, if as expected the Productivity Commission recommends the move on Monday.

I think it's to early yet to call it dead in the water ... the report has only recently come out. I'll suspect they'll put it on the backburner for now and revive it after the election

A link between the backbench and the party room, but we both know it won't be found.

A Senator wants to take "work place relations to the next election? Not binding on anyone. May or may not happen.

Senator Abetz says Fair Work Commission can't ignore calls to reduce Sunday penalty rates. But then again the Fair Work Commission is an independent body and can ignore such calls.

So much huff and puff.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #50 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:43pm

So 'the party room' and not our elected representatives get to run the government?

Sounds awfully like an OOPS moment to me..... in terms of democracy......

So it follows that any self interest group (SIG) can determine government policy with or without reference to the people... and can 'spin' that policy any way they like?

Where are The People in all this?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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lee

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #51 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:44pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:43pm:

So it follows that any self interest group (SIG) can determine government policy with or without reference to the people... and can 'spin' that policy any way they like?

Well the Greens try. Wink

Edit: We may not have democracy; but we have a fair simulation. That's what oppositions are for.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75369 Gender:	Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform Reply #52 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:46pm lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:34pm: So much huff and puff. of course it's huff and puff .... what were you expecting? policy details?
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lee

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #53 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:50pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:46pm:

of course it's huff and puff .... what were you expecting? policy details?
Posted by: lee Mark & Quote Quote

Nope; but a little substance to your fears.

So what is wrong with taking a work place relations policy to an election? Surely that is a good thing. BS thinks it absolutely fantastic.

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John Smith

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #54 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:51pm

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:46pm:

of course it's huff and puff .... what were you expecting? policy details?
Posted by: lee Mark & Quote Quote

Nope; but a little substance to your fears.

So what is wrong with taking a work place relations policy to an election? Surely that is a good thing. BS thinks it absolutely fantastic.

my fears are based on the libs history .....

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 18101 Gender:	Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform Reply #55 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:53pm John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:51pm: my fears are based on the libs history ..... Ah - paranoid.
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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #56 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 11:36pm

Quote:

On Thursday Mr Shorten, who is on leave and did not front the media on Wednesday, tweeted: "If Mr Turnbull and his Liberals want to fight an election on industrial relations, bring it on. We won on WorkChoices & we'll win again."

He followed by adding: "Labor will always fight for workers, decent pay & conditions. Mr Turnbull & his Liberals will fight for big business & to cut penalty rates." Sad

The Royal Commission was about UNION CORRUPTION

Shorten tried to change the topic by saying INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS

Shorten actually thinks voters are too stupid to see this childish trick

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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John Smith

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #57 - Jan 2^nd, 2016 at 12:29am

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:53pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:51pm:

my fears are based on the libs history .....

Ah - paranoid.

no, not paranoia, reality.

you probably claimed paranoia when we were telling you prior to the last election that abbott couldn't keep his promises of no cuts to anything and still reach a surplus, like he was claiming at the time ... Cheesy

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #58 - Jan 2^nd, 2016 at 1:39am

Maqqa wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 11:36pm:

Quote:

On Thursday Mr Shorten, who is on leave and did not front the media on Wednesday, tweeted: "If Mr Turnbull and his Liberals want to fight an election on industrial relations, bring it on. We won on WorkChoices & we'll win again."

He followed by adding: "Labor will always fight for workers, decent pay & conditions. Mr Turnbull & his Liberals will fight for big business & to cut penalty rates." Sad

The Royal Commission was about UNION CORRUPTION

Shorten tried to change the topic by saying INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS

Shorten actually thinks voters are too stupid to see this childish trick

The royal commission was to look into the possibility of union corruption - in which endeavour it has signally failed.

It was not to 'about union corruption' - but rather to find out if there was any.. and the results are not worth the paper it is written on.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Bill Shorten Responded To Turnbulls Union Reform
Reply #59 - Jan 2^nd, 2016 at 1:44am

lee wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:44pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Jan 1^st, 2016 at 10:43pm:

So it follows that any self interest group (SIG) can determine government policy with or without reference to the people... and can 'spin' that policy any way they like?

Well the Greens try. Wink

Edit: We may not have democracy; but we have a fair simulation. That's what oppositions are for.

So, then - who exactly formulates policy? The elected representatives of the people, in whom such things are vested and in whom the people repose their trust in order to do best for all, or some amorphous group of self-interested individuals acting in concert to achieve an end that suits them alone?

Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak, and that it is doing God's service when it is violating all His laws.

- John Adams.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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