Australian Politics Forum - Free speech is under threat from Islam ..

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 95894
Gender: male

Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #90 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:51pm

Soren wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:28pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:25pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:21pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:09pm:

If Muslims were vissibly and actively countering their jihadis the burqas and hijabs and niqabs would not be seen as Islamic provoications.

Oh, really?

Yeah I call BS.

What are the hijabis and niqabis doing about he jihadis? What are you doing about them?

Oh, old boy, G is more tolerant than you, a better communicator than you, more intelligent and honest and nice than you. He's definitely more "Australian" than you, and his attitudes are far more consistent with the Western liberal tradition than your Nazi-inspired bile.

So why would we import dear old boys like your good self when we can find tolerant, intelligent, honest and nice people like G?

Back to top

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #91 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:54pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:38pm:

D won't say. He'll spend weeks - months - nitpicking your posts (are you the flagwaver for wishy washy Western morals?) or banging on about the prevelance of Muslim underage marriage (one child bride). But he'll never defend the "freedoms" of the Muselman under the law or the constitution.

Occasionally you can shame FD into acknowledging how incompatible Soren, sprint et al's values are to western liberalism - but it will be grudging at best, and carefully composed to ensure there is no finger pointing. You certainly won't see any 50+ page threads dedicated to the "spineless apologetics" for racism and bigotry that names and shames the bigots. He seems to have even given up his token meme about burqa bans being bad.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 95894
Gender: male

Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #92 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:20pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:42pm:

Tell me, if we all agree that Islamic crime is outrageous and should be stopped, what exactly am I supposed to "bang on" about?

What the old boy wants, along with Sprint and Herbie and Homo and all the rest, is a jolly hate fest where they can all come and out-do each other in their scorn for the tinted races. Any form of disagreement with this, even the most timid question, is seen as "white-anting". Herbie sees criticism or rebuke as a form of victimization, so unfair. The old boy actually sees it as censorship. I'm supposed to be a reactionary for censoring him and questioning his enlightened, progressive world view.

FD's different. He needs someone to disagree with. But both FD and the old boy will find disagreement wherever they can. Remember, the agenda here is racial conflict and division, Muslims or otherwise. Homo recently added Pacific Islanders. Honky and the old boy have always railed against the boongs. Herbie and Sprint are happy to hate pretty-much anyone.

And yes, anyone who questions any of this is a diabolical apeaser who should be added to the list too. They're the racists, the reactionaries. Bias recently accused me of being a warmonger for suggesting civilians should be able to flee war zones. The logic behind this was that I'm a despicable refugee-apologist, and refugees are created by wars. Ipso facto, I must support war.

This is what FD and the old boy mean when they refer to free speech.

Anything else is censorship.

Back to top

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #93 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:36pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:42pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:09pm:

As I said: you bang on about hijab and niqab removal after dismissing Muslim terrorism as a second order issue by comparison. But it's not.

Don't tell fibs S - I am on record here as saying very explicitly that attacks against hijabi and niqabi women in the west pale to the crimes in the name of Islam. Tell me, if we all agree that Islamic crime is outrageous and should be stopped, what exactly am I supposed to "bang on" about?

About what you and your fellow moderates are doing - not saying, doing - about Islamic terrorism.

That's what you should be banging on about without letup.

That's all that matters: what you, a Muslim, DOING about the jihadis.

The rest is diversionary wool over our eyes and your own.

Back to top

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 95894
Gender: male

Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #94 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:05pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:54pm:

He seems to have even given up his token meme about burqa bans being bad.

Alas, the ante has been upped by the Paris attacks. Now, any attack on Muslims can be justified with glee. Check out the old boy minimizing hate crimes on comparison to terrorist attacks.

This is what Longy meant when he said that what Australia needs is a terrorist attack on Australian soil to shut the id iots up. People like Longy actually want terrorism to justify the daily bile.

I'd say FD feels quite relieved to be liberated from his liberal yoke. It was all becoming a bit complicated. Much easier to just join the hate fest and ban them, kill them, casterate them. Check out how loathed Malcolm Turnbull and even ASIO are here for stating the bleeding obvious: abandoning Australian values like tolerance and fairness only plays into ISIS' hands. Hate speech and hate crimes only make things worse.

For the knuckleheads here, of course, this is Freeeedom.

Back to top

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #95 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:22pm

Soren wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:36pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:42pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:09pm:

As I said: you bang on about hijab and niqab removal after dismissing Muslim terrorism as a second order issue by comparison. But it's not.

Don't tell fibs S - I am on record here as saying very explicitly that attacks against hijabi and niqabi women in the west pale to the crimes in the name of Islam. Tell me, if we all agree that Islamic crime is outrageous and should be stopped, what exactly am I supposed to "bang on" about?

About what you and your fellow moderates are doing - not saying, doing - about Islamic terrorism.

That's what you should be banging on about without letup.

That's all that matters: what you, a Muslim, DOING about the jihadis.

The rest is diversionary wool over our eyes and your own.

Whats interesting here is that this demand of yours arises as a response to the question of why you apologise for certain violence against women. Something like this:

Soren: when someone assaults a niqabi for what she wears - its the niqabi who is the inconsiderate one
Gandalf: thats an outrageous attitude that is not in line with our values, how can you justify such a statement?
Soren: why must you keep banging on about the insignificant attacks on muslim women, you should be banging on about killing and terror in the name of Islam

Thats where we are at now - your intolerant attitudes can never be identified or acknowledged as intolerance per se, instead they can be justified simply by incorporating them into an entirely irrelevant 'incompatibility of Islam' context. You and moses have so much in common - every time without fail - both of your respond the same way in regards to question about your own bigotry: 1 line dismissing the charge as either insignificant or irrelevant, followed by a lengthy paragraph or more diverting to your favourite topic - why its all the musselman's fault.

Don't insult my intelligence S by pretending you are interested in muslims countering the terrorist narrative - they are doing it every day, in all sorts of ways. It has been pointed out to you time and time again, but of course it makes no difference. Muslims can always and will always be framed as the incompatible, western-secular hating monsters whatever they do. You can 'bang on' with your "all they have to do..." bullshit, but we both know its bullshit. It is ever so easy to continually shift the goalposts, and we both know thats your game. Nothing will ever ever suffice short of Islam being mocked and trashed by everyone including muslims.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #96 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:35pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:22pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:36pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:42pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 3:09pm:

As I said: you bang on about hijab and niqab removal after dismissing Muslim terrorism as a second order issue by comparison. But it's not.

Don't tell fibs S - I am on record here as saying very explicitly that attacks against hijabi and niqabi women in the west pale to the crimes in the name of Islam. Tell me, if we all agree that Islamic crime is outrageous and should be stopped, what exactly am I supposed to "bang on" about?

About what you and your fellow moderates are doing - not saying, doing - about Islamic terrorism.

That's what you should be banging on about without letup.

That's all that matters: what you, a Muslim, DOING about the jihadis.

The rest is diversionary wool over our eyes and your own.

Whats interesting here is that this demand of yours arises as a response to the question of why you apologise for certain violence against women.

Nonsense.

We have been telling you for YEARS that Muslim terrorism is something Muslims must take responsibility. And for years you have resisted this idea and diverted attention away from this fundamental starting point at every opportunity. You are doing this still, in this instance by dragging a 4th order issue - a very, VERY mild backlash against relentless Muslim terrorism and undermining of the West.
What you will not engage in is a lengthy discussion about Islam's role in Islamic terrorism. You will do anything to maintain Muslim victimhood even as Muslims commit daily massacres in the name of Islam. You bang on a bout niqabs and hijabs when you should be stopping the jihadis.

For Muslims it's always about the backlash (mild to non-existent) in response to Muslim terrorism.

Back to top

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #97 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:40pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:22pm:

Don't insult my intelligence S by pretending you are interested in muslims countering the terrorist narrative - they are doing it every day, in all sorts of ways. It has been pointed out to you time and time again, but of course it makes no difference. Muslims can always and will always be framed as the incompatible, western-secular hating monsters whatever they do. You can 'bang on' with your "all they have to do..." bullshit, but we both know its bullshit. It is ever so easy to continually shift the goalposts, and we both know thats your game. Nothing will ever ever suffice short of Islam being mocked and trashed by everyone including muslims.

Don't make me laugh - every time a terrorist goes and murders someone, his family - the people who know him best - come out and bleat about what a good boy he was a nd how he would never do such a thing.

I would deport the entire family of terrorists. If they are not dual citizens, I would confiscate all their property and intern them. I bet the jihad by Western Muslims would stop pronto. It's nonsense that they do not realised what these guys are up to. It's evasive arse-covering.

Back to top

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #98 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:42pm

Soren wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:35pm:

We have been telling you for YEARS that Muslim terrorism is something Muslims must take responsibility. And for years you have resisted this idea and diverted attention away from this fundamental starting point at every opportunity.

Translation: every time its pointed out to you how muslims are taking responsibility and trying to tackle it, you shift the goalposts. Nothing will ever ever suffice in your book.

Soren wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:35pm:

What you will not engage in is a lengthy discussion about Islam's role in Islamic terrorism.

And there we have it - channeling moses and his tired old "only a complete rejection of Islam by muslims will suffice" meme. How constructive do you really think this is? Oh, thats right, you're not interested in constructive.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #99 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 6:01pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:42pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:35pm:

We have been telling you for YEARS that Muslim terrorism is something Muslims must take responsibility. And for years you have resisted this idea and diverted attention away from this fundamental starting point at every opportunity.

Translation: every time its pointed out to you how muslims are taking responsibility and trying to tackle it, you shift the goalposts. Nothing will ever ever suffice in your book.

Soren wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:35pm:

What you will not engage in is a lengthy discussion about Islam's role in Islamic terrorism.

And there we have it - channeling moses and his tired old "only a complete rejection of Islam by muslims will suffice" meme. How constructive do you really think this is? Oh, thats right, you're not interested in constructive.

Islam IS at the centre of Islamic terrorism, Gandy. It's not a 'meme'. It is the heart of the matter.

Stop waiving it away, damn it. Not addressinbg the heart of the matter is evasive arse-coveriong and god knows you guys have been doing it for years. Nobody, not even you, believes that Islam is not the central issue when facing Islamic terrorism. but you will, 'heroically' do everything to pretend that it is nothing more than a 'meme'.

As a Muslim you will not be discussing Islam's shortcomings with infide;ls becauyse that would be unIslamic. So you are left with the victimhood narratiove - blame everyone else for what Muslims do - or waive it away as irrelevant compared to how the infidels react to Muslim terrorism.

Back to top

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 95894
Gender: male

Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #100 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 6:06pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:22pm:

Don't insult my intelligence S by pretending you are interested in muslims countering the terrorist narrative - they are doing it every day, in all sorts of ways. It has been pointed out to you time and time again, but of course it makes no difference.

I remember the Grand Mufti coming out to condemn the Paris attacks in the strongest possible terms as inexcusable and indefensible by Islam. He then went onto discuss terrorism, war and its causes. Amerikan involvement in the Middle East came into it. I believe oil came into it. The previous bombings in Turkey and Lebanon were mentioned, showing that Muslim countries are targets too. We're all affected by terrorism. We're all in it together. We all stand against it together as humans.

A stock standard unequivical condemnation of the Paris attacks with a bit of foreign policy background - nothing Malcolm Turnbull and other world leaders hadn't already said, or did later.

The headlines and columns in the Tele? Grand Mufti Plays the Muslim Victim Card. Grand Mufti blames Uncle for Paris Attacks. Grand Mufti Refuses to Blame Islam, etc, etc, etc.

As you can see, it's not just FD and the old boy, this is viral.

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49075
At my desk.

Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #101 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 7:10pm

Quote:

murders and terrorism by muslims are outrageous by default, they don't need any arguments, qualifications, equivocations etc.

Yet you happily offer them up for some past atrocities by Muslims.

Quote:

Everyone agrees, so we don't argue the toss over that - apart from your constant strawmans about me excusing them of course.

So tell us again how Muhammed's warmongering was not aggressive and is somehow different from every other war in history.

Quote:

Like I said - the difference between you and me is that one of us excuses certain attacks on women, while the other condemns all acts of violence against innocent people.

Unless of course they are a large tribe of scheming Jews, right? That's different, isn't it Gandalf?

Quote:

Excusing and condoning physical assaults on women minding their own business, and pretending it is the victims who are "inconsiderate" are the sick values of your ideal society - it is not the values of the society in which we live in. You, my friend, are the one that doesn't belong here. Of course you'll always be able to rely on FD to constantly tapdance around your bigotry and pretend there's nothing to see, but don't expect the rest of mainstream society to be so forgiving.

I could never compete with you Gandalf.

Quote:

But you didn't say FD. Again, can you explain to me a situation where an assault on a woman isn't an attack on her freedom?

Is this another case of me saying things without actually saying them? Or are you criticising me for not saying them?

Quote:

In this context - I say rubbish. I man minding his own business who gets burgled is having his freedom attacked. A woman who gets raped and murdered has her freedom attacked.

Do you see a significant difference between this and murdering a bunch of cartoonists for drawing Muhammed cartoons, other than it being "less random"?

Quote:

Don't insult my intelligence S by pretending you are interested in muslims countering the terrorist narrative

Ah, that must be what Soren meant by DOING. Perhaps he should have pulled out the crayons.

Quote:

The headlines and columns in the Tele? Grand Mufti Plays the Muslim Victim Card. Grand Mufti blames Uncle for Paris Attacks. Grand Mufti Refuses to Blame Islam, etc, etc, etc.

Did the Mufti blame Islam?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 95894
Gender: male

Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #102 - Jan 16^th, 2016 at 7:59pm

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 7:10pm:

Did the Mufti blame Islam?

I don't think so, FD. Nor did he denounce Muhammed as a paedophile warmonger, decry the moon god Allah as a Satanic entity or expose the so-called "religion of peace" as an evil death cult, enticing the souls of its followers to spend eternity in hell.

Talk about mendacious, eh?

Back to top

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #103 - Jan 17^th, 2016 at 11:10am

Karnal wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 6:06pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:22pm:

Don't insult my intelligence S by pretending you are interested in muslims countering the terrorist narrative - they are doing it every day, in all sorts of ways. It has been pointed out to you time and time again, but of course it makes no difference.

I remember the Grand Mufti coming out to condemn the Paris attacks in the strongest possible terms as inexcusable and indefensible by Islam. He then went onto discuss terrorism, war and its causes. Amerikan involvement in the Middle East came into it. I believe oil came into it. The previous bombings in Turkey and Lebanon were mentioned, showing that Muslim countries are targets too. We're all affected by terrorism. We're all in it together. We all stand against it together as humans.

A stock standard unequivical condemnation of the Paris attacks with a bit of foreign policy background - nothing Malcolm Turnbull and other world leaders hadn't already said, or did later.

The headlines and columns in the Tele? Grand Mufti Plays the Muslim Victim Card. Grand Mufti blames Uncle for Paris Attacks. Grand Mufti Refuses to Blame Islam, etc, etc, etc.

As you can see, it's not just FD and the old boy, this is viral.

So it makes sense to you and the Miffti and John Kerry and Turenbull et al that Muslims massacre Pariasian in theatres, restaurants, stadiums, magazine offices because of Amerikan foreign policy ??? You can see how it makes sense to them to do THAT in response to Amerika??

Really?

Back to top

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Free speech is under threat from Islam ..
Reply #104 - Jan 17^th, 2016 at 11:12am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:42pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 5:35pm:

We have been telling you for YEARS that Muslim terrorism is something Muslims must take responsibility. And for years you have resisted this idea and diverted attention away from this fundamental starting point at every opportunity.

Translation: every time its pointed out to you how muslims are taking responsibility and trying to tackle it, you shift the goalposts.

How are they doing this?? List the efforts.

Back to top

IP Logged